Long range bullet- eldx vs partition

[SouthernCharm]

Well, was watching some YouTube and came across an interesting find. This well know gun smith didn’t come out and say he was anti Hornady, however he didn’t shine a glowing light on them either. He went on to say that the bc is a bunch of bull, not to shoot target bullets at critters. He even used the Hornady reloading book and quoted them as they say bc was not a consistent measurement. He shoots a big gun loaded with partition in my belief. Being new to long range, has anyone used the partition say out to 600 yards? He was like gun shoots, the gun shoots. He does like tikkas if that a plus, hehe. Secondly, Has anyone read Ammunition Demystified by Jeff Siewert? Wondering if that is way above my level since I only reload and not gunsmith. He seemed like down to earth ballistics engineer that speaks in plain English. Thanks and enjoy your day.

 

[hereinaz]

He is manipulating information for his view point. Or, he doesn’t understand ballistics. Gunsmiths are not ballisticians, so I default to innocent ignorance and bias.

He and Hornady are correct, BC is NEVER consistent, it is dependent on velocity and spin. The BC changes the entire flight. But, you can still plug in a single BC and kill critters as far as you want.

Hornady freely explains that BC isn’t consistent. It’s a rationale why Hornady uses 4DOF and radar tracking for their ballistic calculators.

It’s why AB uses radar verified custom curves in its Elite software. And their gold standard is the personal drag model based on your rifle and ammo.

Um, I have only shot “target” bullets… why not use them? Bergers kill, and this deer would argue with you if it wasn’t dead… so do lots of other target bullets.

Partitions are good bullets, and perform as designed. They aren’t as good as a high BC bullet for retaining velocity prior to reaching the intended target. Velocity is what makes a bullet perform, so how far a partition will work is a function of how fast it leaves the muzzle. Run one fast enough and it can kill out to 600.

 

[LightFoot]

A “target bullet” is just another cup and core bullet that is more aerodynamic than the good ole core-lokt.

Partitions are excellent killing bullets. They just slow down a whole lot faster than a Berger or ELD-X or -M.

The most important thing when choosing and using any bullet is understanding what the bullet does on impact and the velocity window for that bullet to perform as designed.

In my 7mm I shoot a 180 VLD-H at 2900 at the muzzle. I would feel confident in this bullet for any deer or elk out to 600. I also wouldn’t shoot the point of the shoulder quartering to or take a steep quarter in away shot. The partition or a monometal would make those shots, but I am not sure I would have the impact velocity I would want.


>>>——JAKE——>

 

[prm]

Big fan of Partitions. If I were to up my skills for much longer ranges, the Partition would not be my first choice. But for what I do today, it would make no difference.

 

[Wrench]

600 isn't long range and a match bullet isn't required to get there.

If you look at the numbers, a partition doesn't give up much to 600. If you stretched it to 1200.....it makes a big difference.

 

[SouthernCharm]

He is manipulating information for his view point. Or, he doesn’t understand ballistics. Gunsmiths are not ballisticians, so I default to innocent ignorance and bias.

He and Hornady are correct, BC is NEVER consistent, it is dependent on velocity and spin. The BC changes the entire flight. But, you can still plug in a single BC and kill critters as far as you want.

Hornady freely explains that BC isn’t consistent. It’s a rationale why Hornady uses 4DOF and radar tracking for their ballistic calculators.

It’s why AB uses radar verified custom curves in its Elite software. And their gold standard is the personal drag model based on your rifle and ammo.

Um, I have only shot “target” bullets… why not use them? Bergers kill, and this deer would argue with you if it wasn’t dead… so do lots of other target bullets.

Partitions are good bullets, and perform as designed. They aren’t as good as a high BC bullet for retaining velocity prior to reaching the intended target. Velocity is what makes a bullet perform, so how far a partition will work is a function of how fast it leaves the muzzle. Run one fast enough and it can kill out to 600.

Thank for the awesome layman answer.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Appreciate all the comments and wisdom. Trying to up my game and knowledge. You all are a great resource. Never to old to learn I hope.. Thank you.

 

[Crowmangler]

He is manipulating information for his view point. Or, he doesn’t understand ballistics. Gunsmiths are not ballisticians, so I default to innocent ignorance and bias.

According to Joe Biden that deer was shot with a 9mm

 

[Bugger]

Is the feller in question an old guy with a wide beard that sits in a rocking chair by a wood stove?

 

[SouthernCharm]

Is the feller in question an old guy with a wide beard that sits in a rocking chair by a wood stove?

Maybe, but I’ve watched some others too who didn’t expand on their background, so I just listen. Hornady podcast had some smart fellas the other day, but again you can take the data to prove your point and skew other points. Follow the money I say to find the truth. They were selling a book as well as product.

 

[gbflyer]

“The Real Gunsmith”?

I like Partitions too.

 

[DangerRanger]

This wildly depends on the specific bullets selected. Partitions don’t have great bc but 600 is doable. The bc kick really hurts in the wind though in those last few hundred yards.

If it’s the video I watched that person wildly misconstrued figures to prove their point. Wildly.

 

[hereinaz]

600 isn't long range and a match bullet isn't required to get there.

If you look at the numbers, a partition doesn't give up much to 600. If you stretched it to 1200.....it makes a big difference.

Drop the ballistic charts for us to compare.

We disagree on what is long range, in my opinion 600 is long range. We agree that past 600 it gets much harder and BC matters much more.

 

[hereinaz]

Maybe, but I’ve watched some others too who didn’t expand on their background, so I just listen. Hornady podcast had some smart fellas the other day, but again you can take the data to prove your point and skew other points. Follow the money I say to find the truth. They were selling a book as well as product.

Trust but verify.

Hornady has some good technical data on their podcast. It is skewed some and interpreted favorably to their products of course, but if you took it all as gospel you wouldn’t go wrong in the field.

Other videos and podcasts would lead you down the wrong path.

The good old boy gunsmiths are some of the worst to ever listen to for technical data. The one mentioned is very entertaining, but represents what others derisively call “fudds” because of attitude that prevents learning.

 

[Wrench]

Drop the ballistic charts for us to compare.

We disagree on what is long range, in my opinion 600 is long range. We agree that past 600 it gets much harder and BC matters much more.

This will help.

At odds with elk rifle calibers

Nothing wrong with a 7mag for elk. I agree that a 30 caliber hits harder.What is the max range that you shoot? I love my 35 whelen but my max range with it is 500 yards for proper bullet performance. A 300win mag or a 300prc in 30 caliber for the non reloader. Of course a 30/06 is hard to beat...

rokslide.com

 

[TaperPin]

Well, was watching some YouTube and came across an interesting find. This well know gun smith didn’t come out and say he was anti Hornady, however he didn’t shine a glowing light on them either. He went on to say that the bc is a bunch of bull, not to shoot target bullets at critters. He even used the Hornady reloading book and quoted them as they say bc was not a consistent measurement. He shoots a big gun loaded with partition in my belief. Being new to long range, has anyone used the partition say out to 600 yards? He was like gun shoots, the gun shoots. He does like tikkas if that a plus, hehe. Secondly, Has anyone read Ammunition Demystified by Jeff Siewert? Wondering if that is way above my level since I only reload and not gunsmith. He seemed like down to earth ballistics engineer that speaks in plain English. Thanks and enjoy your day.

That’s probably the old Wyoming gunsmith. Agree with him or not, he reminds me of the stereotypical gun nut of the era he grew up in. Today there are long lines of Hornady fan boys, but traditionally that wasn’t the case - Hornady had the reputation for inexpensive bullets with mediocre performance on game. Guys are welcome to argue the history of it, but across the state that seemed to be the reputation.

As for his experience with different bullets, he enjoys cutting open bullets and comparing notes with guys who kill elk and deer every year with his rifles, from up close in the timber to 600 to 700 yards if I’m remembering his stories correctly. Typical Wyoming gun and hunting nut. He’s spent many decades being surrounded by high performance hunting rifles in a community full of hunters and gun nuts who collectively have a lot of animals under their belts and days in the field. His world view is using big fast cartridges with tough bullets, which kill things quite nicely. To say he’s clueless is quite short sighted.

I wouldn’t rely on him for advice on which match bullet to use, but he knows they kills things - the 25-06 and 117gr Coreloc bullets have been killing plenty of elk since the 1970s and he knew plenty of guys that killed them with 257 Roberts and 250 savage decades before that.

He’s not perfect, has his own flavor of marketing branding, but he is in the business of selling his style of rifle. His shop practices work, and I’m sure rifles come out shooting better than average, but aren’t up to the best accuracy standards of today, and don’t have to be.

Jeff Siewert’s experience is primarily with military contractors and his stories are a little long in the tooth. Still good information, but you will soon find some of his comments out of his wheelhouse. A good fit for the Hornady guys.

 

[TaperPin]

I wouldn’t shoot a Partition at the speed of smell out of an Arc, but for fast cartridges Partitions have worked just fine for 600 yards. To suggest otherwise is silly. They are relatively soft up front and typically shed the front 40%.

If the BC difference between a Partition and boat tail makes a difference with a cartridge on the very edge of being mediocre, then by all means use the best wheelchair available to help it limp out to 600.

The biggest difference between a tough bullet and match bullet is speed and caliber are more important with something the fragments less. It provides a deeper wound cavity that’s more consistent than a match bullet that expands rapidly over a shorter distance. Many of us think that’s an advantage when the angle isn’t ideal and extra penetration can be the difference between taking the shot and holding off for a better angle.

 

[hereinaz]

A consistent and compelling argument for deep penetrating bullets is less than ideal shot angle on the BOAL that is walking out of your life forever. I get it, although it is not enough for me to make that bullet choice with my hunts. Maybe if I went to a different location and had a different need. I could see going to a copper or partition for close timber where velocity would not be an issue. I did carry a magazine of partition in my rifle on Kodiak for bear protection as we walked around. I shot deer with a magazine of Berger.

IMO, that rationale of deep doesn’t translate well as the range extends where the bullet has slowed significantly so you lose penetration. And, the margin for error on a hard quartering away shot is the gut, a ham, up the butt, or a front shoulder and miss.

If you run partition out of a magnum, that mitigates a lot of the problem, except threading the needle.

My personal ethics says don’t take that shot, and I would and have watched a BOAL walk away. At 600 yards it takes a lot for a clean shot on deer.

 

[Wrench]

One of the issues with match bullets is the expansion is related to velocity and as it decreases expansion changes. The change is USUALLY a good thing.....until it's not.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

partitions also expand less as impact velocity gets slower. really not sure what points you're trying to make wrench, you feeling ok? normally your posts are spot on.