Long distance arrow - Accuracy, Consistency, Tunability

[bowhiker88]

**All arrow set ups are built for hunting or to be able to hunt with**

Do some believe that stiffer arrows (and/or shorter) are better or lead to more consistent and forgiving shots/groups?
Anyone have experience shooting/living in a geographic location with windy conditions on a regular basis? What are your experiences with heavy and light arrows at distance?
Does anyone think a heavier arrow (lets use 500-525g at 70lbs for the heavy and 400-425 for the light arrow references going forward) is a going to be a more accurate (in all conditions) arrow at 80 yards?

 

[trailblazer75]

I've tinkered a lot with arrow setups. I wound up settling at 490 grains out of a 72 lb bow at 29".

I went as heavy as 630 grains and as light as 450. Wind certainly messed with the lighter arrow more than it did the heavy arrow. Bow was quieter with a heavy arrow. I did have deeper penetration on a target at distance with a heavy arrow.

That said, both ends of the spectrum produced pass throughs. Both ends of the spectrum worked fine with expendables and fixed heads. In fact, I failed to get a pass through once with a 630 grain head on a mature whitetail buck and got numerous pass throughs on mature bucks with lighter arrows and an expandable. Last year I shot a younger buck with an expandable and my 490 grain setup and failed to get a pass through. But those instances are few and far between because typically I achieve a pass through regardless, anywhere on that spectrum.

For me, I settled on a 490 grain arrow going 282 FPS with a heavy helical and a fixed, 3 blade broadhead. I'm a 29" draw length, as said, and my arrows are 28". Shorter is stiffer but that isn't necessarily everything. I went with this setup because I found tuning a lighter arrow going faster to be finicky and a heavier arrow going slower had a pretty horrible trajectory. This arrow tunes best for me and what I shoot and the 3 blade, triangle holes are great for blood trails.

As far as group size went, I preferred the heavier arrow in the wind and the lighter arrow when it was still for the above stated reasons. The middle of the road arrow groups middle of the road in any conditions.

It is my opinion that an arrow from 450 to 500 grains out of a well tuned bow going anywhere from 275 to 295 FPS will perform in hunting scenarios extremely well while giving the end user the desired results on game.

You have to personally decide what long distance actually is. For me, I got about 80-85 yards out of the heavy arrow before I was in danger of the arrow hitting the sight housing. I got about 120 yards out of the light arrow. I get 109 out of the middle of the road arrow. That's plenty good for me.

 

[S.Clancy]

IMO, you have no business shooting at an animal at extended ranges in archery if it is windy. My opinion is based on my own experiences. If it is truly windy, I limit my shots to <50 yards, and depending on the wind velocity, less. Remember, you are not just dealing with the actual wind drift of the arrow but the way the wind is knocking your bow around.

That being said, a heavier arrow will buck the wind better than a lighter arrow, in general.

A properly spined and tuned arrow (whether light or heavy) is the second most important factor to consistency and precision with archery equipment, with your shooting form being the most important. Slower arrows (so heavier) are easier to tune, but if you are a good tuner you can get fixed blade heads to fly at high speeds. I've tuned them up to 300-305 fps and seen similar group sizes to my current setup, 530 gr @ 275-278 fps. I switched to heavier arrows simply to have a quieter bow.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Do some believe that stiffer arrows (and/or shorter) are better or lead to more consistent and forgiving shots/groups?

IMO arrow spine isn't that important with a modern compound bow. I've been able to get arrows significantly stiffer and weaker than what the charts/calculators recommend to group well (with both field points and broadheads). There's a plausible argument that a weaker arrow is more forgiving of flaws in shot execution because the arrow flexes more and can better "absorb" the influence of torquing the riser, punching the release, etc. without throwing the arrow off course. However, too weak can cause problems with getting broadheads to group consistently. For a hunting arrow, I prefer to err on the stiff side, but I believe the range of workable spines is fairly broad for a compound bow.

Arrow length is a separate (but related because shortening stiffens the dynamic spine) question. Shorter means slightly less surface area to catch crosswind and slightly higher FOC. An inch or two isn't going to make a big difference in wind performance or FOC, but I see no benefit to leaving arrows longer than necessary. I trim my arrows to about 1/2" beyond the rest.

Anyone have experience shooting/living in a geographic location with windy conditions on a regular basis? What are your experiences with heavy and light arrows at distance?

Heavier arrows are less affected by wind, but IMO the influence of the wind on the shooter's ability to hold steady is the primary cause of wind-induced inaccuracy.

Does anyone think a heavier arrow (lets use 500-525g at 70lbs for the heavy and 400-425 for the light arrow references going forward) is a going to be a more accurate (in all conditions) arrow at 80 yards?

I think most bowhunters would get better groups with the light arrow at 80 yds due to its flatter trajectory. I also think most bowhunters would miss the kill zone entirely with either arrow at 80 yds in windy conditions.

 

[JStol5]

I shoot a 505 grain arrow out of a 69lb bow at a 28.5 inch draw length. It clocks about 265 FPS, I can shoot out to 110 yards. I've thought about going lighter but aside from unmarked 3D I don't want to fix something that isn't broken. I would try and avoid going heavier unless I shot more poundage.

 

[3forks]

Heavier arrows are less affected by wind, but IMO the influence of the wind on the shooter's ability to hold steady is the primary cause of wind-induced inaccuracy.


I think most bowhunters would get better groups with the light arrow at 80 yds due to its flatter trajectory. I also think most bowhunters would miss the kill zone entirely with either arrow at 80 yds in windy conditions.

I frequently shoot in windy conditions, and I would agree with what Mighty Mouse has stated.

To offer my own opinion, I’d say that building an arrow specifically to address windy conditions is a waste of time. If it’s windy enough to have difficulty holding steady, or windy enough that you can’t get your shot to break with your normal execution and you have to try and time/force the shot - no arrow is going to be appreciably more accurate in that situation.

 

[MattB]

I frequently shoot in windy conditions, and I would agree with what Mighty Mouse has stated.

To offer my own opinion, I’d say that building an arrow specifically to address windy conditions is a waste of time. If it’s windy enough to have difficulty holding steady, or windy enough that you can’t get your shot to break with your normal execution and you have to try and time/force the shot - no arrow is going to be appreciably more accurate in that situation.

This. It always shocks me how many guys seemingly believe they will consistently execute good shots under windy conditions and arrow drift is the thing they are primarily concerned about. They strike me as people who haven't shot much in wind.

 

[Blockcaver]

I agree with MattB. Another factor is wind makes the nock/fletch end trail down wind further than the point impeding penetration.

I did a lot of practice shooting in the wind out to 85 yards back when I was seriously sheep hunting every year. Best things I found to shoot better in the wind:

1. Remove your quiver loaded with arrows
2. Shoot from your knees as you are much more stable lower to the ground than standing upright
3. or better yet shoot from a spot protected from the wind
4. I settled on micro diameter shafts (Easton 330 Carbon Injexions), completed arrow weight at 472 grains going about 272 fps from a 65# @ 29-1/4" draw compound using a 3-blade expandable head.

Note: Learn how much your arrow drifts at various wind speeds and angles as well as how much your groups open up, and don't shoot beyond your adjusted for conditions sure kill range. I passed on a bedded ram in very windy conditions once...took me three more back pack trips to finally arrow a ram, but was always glad I made that choice.

 

[dtrkyman]

Always windy here, I normally shoot the exact same set up for 3d and hunting. Grabbed my back up bow and set up some light arrows, 330 grains at 62lbs. Got them bare shaft tuned at 30 yards and was shocked how well they grouped at distance!

My 100 yard shooting was as good as I have ever shot with that set up, standard .244 id shafts, standard aluminum insert and 125 grains points, they tuned best!

Not an arrow weight I would want to hunt with but their accuracy surprised me!

 

[Billy Goat]

Conventional wisdom is that weaker spine is more forgiving, and more accurate at distance. I haven't been able to prove or disprove it. I can tell you with a shooting machine it's a lot easier to get tighter groups with stiffer arrows. The reaction is more consistent out of the bow. The weaker the shaft the more nock tuning helps.


Shooting field I have used skinny, weak shafts, and I have used 23 series kinda stiff shafts, pretty much shoot same scores. In the wind I definitely wouldn't use 23's, but I like shooting a field course once or twice a week with my 3d setup in season and the "fat" shafts don't hurt me.

I think one thing that gets overlooked is frequently a stiff arrow is a heavy arrow, and a weak arrow is a light arrow. Depending on your shooting style, a lighter arrow can be more forgiving, because it comes off the bow faster. Even for my indoor arrows I have gone lighter and it's more forgiving for me.

 

[nphunter]

I think vanes probably have more effect on wind drift than arrow size within reason, randy ulmer talked about it a long time ago and was shooting skinny arrows with 6 small fletchings to minimize wind drift.

I've built a lot of arrows and the best grouping arrows I've ever shot were A/C Injecxion 390's 28" CTC, out of a 65lb bow with a 27.5/28" Draw length. Every chart there says those arrows are way to weak for that bow, I already had them from my previous bow and they just flat-out shot. They were awesome in the wind and I was shooting 310fps and at the times Solid Legend 100's grouped great out to 80 yards, FOC was like 11%.

To me a perfect arrow for long range would be an Easton Pro Comp 300, IW 75 HIT, 6 AAE PM2.0 vanes and a small mechanical, dead meat or sevr 100gr. 460gr, super forgiving and 295fps. Makes me want to build a set.

 

[JStol5]

I think vanes probably have more effect on wind drift than arrow size within reason, randy ulmer talked about it a long time ago and was shooting skinny arrows with 6 small fletchings to minimize wind drift.

I've built a lot of arrows and the best grouping arrows I've ever shot were A/C Injecxion 390's 28" CTC, out of a 65lb bow with a 27.5/28" Draw length. Every chart there says those arrows are way to weak for that bow, I already had them from my previous bow and they just flat-out shot. They were awesome in the wind and I was shooting 310fps and at the times Solid Legend 100's grouped great out to 80 yards, FOC was like 11%.

To me a perfect arrow for long range would be an Easton Pro Comp 300, IW 75 HIT, 6 AAE PM2.0 vanes and a small mechanical, dead meat or sevr 100gr. 460gr, super forgiving and 295fps. Makes me want to build a set.

Similar to this, I think a slightly heavier micro diameter with a mechanical would be a great long range arrow.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've done a little testing in the wind. As stated a few times above, the amount that the wind blows the bow around is the biggest factor. But for pure effect on the arrows, I once shot at 80 yards in about a 30mph crosswind with myself shielded from the wind. I aimed at the right edge of the target bales expecting the cross wind from the right to blow the arrows left. I was amazed when I walked up to the bales and every arrow was only 2" from the outside edge. That was with 500gr .300 spine 5mm type arrows with HIT's, 125's, and three 2" Quikspin vanes at 285fps.

Now that was with FP's. With Shuttle T BH's on the front, they hit 18" further left. And that was after the bow had been BH tuned at 60 yards with the Shuttle T's and FP's hitting together without wind. This is when I started carrying some mechanical heads. The 125gr Grim Reapers hit close to the FP arrows in that wind. So I figured those would be a benefit even at shorter distances as well.

After that, I don't worry too much about the wind even when shooting the field courses.

 

[BigCountry49]

I live in an exceptionally Windy City out west. It is true that a heavier arrow and increased FOC will help in wind but I have found that low profile vanes and 4mm arrows make a significant difference. I shoot a 450 grain arrow on crosswinds of around 20 mph and can get away with 2-3” of drift at 60+ yards. To do this I also shoot with a wind block like my truck to stop by bow from drifting off target. Also, fixed broad heads will steer much more than mechs at distance past 30 yards.

 

[BigCountry49]

I've done a little testing in the wind. As stated a few times above, the amount that the wind blows the bow around is the biggest factor. But for pure effect on the arrows, I once shot at 80 yards in about a 30mph crosswind with myself shielded from the wind. I aimed at the right edge of the target bales expecting the cross wind from the right to blow the arrows left. I was amazed when I walked up to the bales and every arrow was only 2" from the outside edge. That was with 500gr .300 spine 5mm type arrows with HIT's, 125's, and three 2" Quikspin vanes at 285fps.

Now that was with FP's. With Shuttle T BH's on the front, they hit 18" further left. And that was after the bow had been BH tuned at 60 yards with the Shuttle T's and FP's hitting together without wind. This is when I started carrying some mechanical heads. The 125gr Grim Reapers hit close to the FP arrows in that wind. So I figured those would be a benefit even at shorter distances as well.

After that, I don't worry too much about the wind even when shooting the field courses.

THIS

 

[Beendare]

I like Blockcavers answer. The wind buffets a bow with quiver and arrows like a sail.

Our range has a strong cross wind….good for learning what your arrows are doing.

I shot the micros for years when I was getting them for free…. now that I have to pay for them I think the 5 mm shafts are the best all-around size- for many reasons inc wind.

Fletch is the number one factor….shoot 5” feathers next mini blazers for an eye opener. The big fletch gets those arrows angling to the target and more foc puts the balance point forward with the tail kicking out even more.

A smaller fletch makes a significant difference….and you can use something like that if your bow is tuned.
Makes sense, if it will shoot a bare shaft…it will shoot a BH with a small fletch.

Shaft dia is minor….and the avg arrow weights (450-500-ish) fly better in cross wind than the light arrows, IME.

Biggest factors, Fletch/ arrow tune…then practice In wind.

 

[trophyhill]

When i first bought my D350 in 2009, after plugging in all the information, the charts said i needed a 340 spine arrow and I've never wavered. The XT Hunters have served me well at all distances including a few long distance kills. There's alot that goes into it though including building and tuning a perfect arrow with a perfectly tuned bow.