Load Testing?

[Shrek]

Crumy , I like the LE Wilson trimmer and I've never bothered to find another way to measure case lenght so I don't know. If one case is long in the lot I trim them all to a uniform length.

CrazyDavy , I use the Lee collet neck die alone and I am wondering why you use a body die also ? What press and seating die are you guys using that you need to turn the round 180º and reseat to eliminate runout ? I tried it with mine and it made no difference with my co-ax press and Forster seater combo.

 

[Hunt'nFish]

I too only use calipers to measure case length.

Dave, I use a mix of dies from Redding, RCBS & Hornaday. I have often thought about machining a custom seat die stem for a particular bullet profile, but I keep changing bullets so much it'd be obsolete in no time. Part of that is the bullet mfg'ers fault though...they keep designing better and better bullets.
Hunt'nFish

Oh, PS...... trimmers.....
I used to use a Forster until I let it go to a friend when I put a basic kit together for him.
Now I'm using an RCBS TrimPro, jury still out on what I think of it though.

PS, PS....trimming....
I don't get too anal about trimming. Don't even trim before every loading.
As long as they're shorter than the rifle's chamber they're fine. Never really found it to matter much on target.
I do use a short case & chamber length plug to measure my rifle's chamber neck length. I record it and spot check a lot of cases before loading. If you not running way over pressure, cases shouldn't grew that fast, if any. If you's are, your probably pushing the trottle too far forward. Cases are expensive these days, I want max life. If I need/want more speed .... step up to a larger case or learn to use slow powders & a drop tube @ 100+% load density.

 

[Shrek]

As long as the necks are not too long I don't worry about the lenght to a specification but I do want them all the same lenght for neck tension. The Wilson trimmer cuts a true overall length , not from the top of the holder . When I trim my cases after fireformed they are all dead on . No variances with rim thickness that you get with trimmers that hold the rim of the case. I don't know how much difference it makes but I have eliminated another variable.

 

[crazy_davey]

CrazyDavy , I use the Lee collet neck die alone and I am wondering why you use a body die also ?

You will get straighter cases by prepping them in two steps instead of just one using a standard FL die as eventually you need to resize the case(that part I am sure you knew).

 

[Shrek]

I shoot them until I just about can't close the bolt then ruin them...oops , l mean aneal them and full lenght resize them. I have been known to over heat them .

 

[crumy]

I looked at the le wilson. That seems like it woud work nicely. I know rcbs has different ones and a friend is trying to talk me into the powered one, but something about reloading wiht single stage and doint i all by hand (except weighing) is a little relaxing.. Although I can see the benefit of powered trimmer.. I just want consistent. So far I have 3 loads out of a 243 after initial factory bullet was fired. really not growth in case.

Well except for a batch of 6 that I loaded pretty hot... They seemed to grow to just about the max spec length.

 

[ST52v]

This is all good info guys!!! My brother (hot Rod) is using a rcbs neck size die. It's the standard rod and expander ball type. If we knew what we know now we would have went with the good reading set to start with. He can't close his bolt now so the shoulders have to be bumped back. He should get his gun back this weekend and do some more testing. My buddy has had it mounting his new vortex 6-24 scope. He did get some good groups out of his old model 7 youth 243 last weekend. He was shooting 90gr accubonds and 75gr hornady's. We got our press over 20 years ago and the basics is all we did. We have not done any reloading for a good 15 years or so. With all the info on the net today it makes it easy to get in deep. It's been like stepping in quick sand.

 

[crumy]

Maybe I missed it. What are the advantage if redding over rcbs full length sizer

 

[KMD]

If you aren't turning necks to a uniform thickness, I don't see any benefit to using bushing dies. The bushing is just going to push any eccentricity in neck diameter to the inside of the case. And we all know how inconsistent neck tension screws with velocity swings and ultimately translates to poor accuracy at distance. So, I just don't bother with bushing neck dies unless the benefit of dialing in a specific amount of neck tension can be realized.
Also, when I do run a bushing die, I remove the expander ball so whatever neck tension the bushing allows for will stay consistent. Removing the expander ball will also reduce runout, since there is nothing pulling back through those pretty necks on the upstroke.

If I don't turn necks, I simply run a standard FL die...a Redding with optional floating carbide expander ball. Don't have to lube the inside case necks with a carbide floater, and runout is reduced, thanks to the ball being able to self center. And I also have case mic gauges for almost every caliber I reload for, so I can set the FL die to bump the shoulder back a minimal .002" for bolt guns, so as not to over work the brass and negate the risk of excessive headspace due to bumping too far...

As for trimming, I use a cheapo RCBS Trim Pro. And I only ever trim brass after firing 1x. In effect, I'm "fireforming" new brass to that particular rifle! And once that virgin brass is fired in a rifle, you can tailor your reloading procedure to fit that rifle...an important aspect of making consistent ammo.

Annealing? Usually after 3x fired. I spin cases with a cordless screw gun and an appropriately sized socket to hold each case. I anneal in a dark room and spin the cases necks in a Bernzomatic. until the necks just begin to glow a faint red. That's plenty...

Load testing?
I shoot a ladder of single loads, stepped with increasing charges of ~10% of the case capacity. IE, <30 gr capacity, 0.3gr steps. 30>50, 0.5 gr steps. Etc...
Shoot ladder@200yds min, 300 is better. The further the distance, the better you'll be able to see vertical dispersion between shots of your ladder string. Shoot through a chrono, if you can. When increasing charge weights do not net consistent velocity gains, you are topping out on the pressure threshold of that case/powder. And of course, always pay attention to the obvious pressure signs!

If you can, start with seating bullets in the lands for your ladder testing. So, if you choose to back off the lands later on, you won't see unexpected pressure signs. Going from a jam to a jump will lower pressure....until you begin crunching powder by seating too deep! Then pressure will actually increase since the bullet is now displacing case volume. But going from a jam to a small jump will LOWER pressure. Safety first!

As you shoot, the increasing charge weights in the ladder will hit consecutively higher on target. What you are looking for is where a cluster of charge weights are more closely stacked, vertically, than the rest of the ladder. Those 'flat spots' in the vertical spread of the ladder is what you want to see!

If you've found where your vertical dispersion is clustered, the middle of those charge weights would be where you'd want to focus on to test some groups with. The smaller vertical spread at distance directly translates into being in the "sweet spot" for your particular rifle. That target don't lie!

Above all, be safe and have fun! Finding that killer load is a great feeling...

And sorry for the edits, can't type on this iPad!

 

[Shrek]

Nothing in the full length resizing dies but the Redding neck dies , straight body dies and seating dies are where you get to play. The seating die is just a knock off of the Forster design that you can buy from Forster for much less and is every bit as well finished. Personally I'm a big fan of the Forster dies and co-ax press. I also don't think you can do better than the lee collet neck dies for neck sizing at any price. I don't want anyone to think that I'm badmouthing the performance or quality of the Redding comp sets .I just feel I can get as good or better for less money. RCBS anything is not as good or better than Forster or Redding but not bad either. The only die and tool maker I have been dissatisfied with is Hornady. I have had several of their new dimension dies , an electronic scale , and the camlock trimmer and they were absolute garbage imo. I've used rcbs , lee and lyman and was not dissatisfied .

 

[HOT ROD]

This is a lot of good info. Keep it rolling. I am all ears..