load testing bergers

[Sam Millard]

Yes. It's a 26" Hart. I've had it over 3000, but backed it off to make the brass last. 162 AMAX shoots really well at that velocity

 

[oldgrowth]

This is interesting. I am also using 68.0 grains of H 1000 and 168 bergers in my 7RM and this combo shoots just under .5 MOA out of my factory Tikka. My muzzle velocity is running at 2850 fps acording to a chrony i borrowed from a friend. I arrived at this charge weight using the OCW method described by Dan Newberry. This load has shot well for me out to 700 yds and i am going to push it out further this year to see if it holds at longer distances.

 

[Retterath]

Has any been able to find any 7 wsm brass. I don't have very many left and are getting 4 firings on them already.

 

[Sam Millard]

Has any been able to find any 7 wsm brass. I don't have very many left and are getting 4 firings on them already.

Nope. I talked to three different people at the Winchester booth when I was at SHOT, including an "engineer." Nobody could give me a straight answer. You might have to make some out of 300WSM brass. I'm on the fourth firing with mine as well, but I don't see why it won't go a few more.

 

[bhylton]

I cant even find 300wsm brass. i was hoping to make it out of 7wsm. sounds like that might not be an option either

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

I cant even find 300wsm brass. i was hoping to make it out of 7wsm. sounds like that might not be an option either

I just bought 100 rounds of 300 WSM Nosler brass last night from Brownells. It wasn't cheap but it's some of the only brass I could find....

 

[bhylton]

I think i might just buy some of the cheapest federal ammo i can find and use some for fouling shots and pull the bullets in the rest. any opinions on federal brass?

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Sam-

Back when you were a Mortal and pre-DE days with factory rifles, was your load development so easy? Meaning, do you think it's possible to take a $599 Remington SPS 7mag and get an ES in the low 20s and .75 MOA out of it in short order? I know your shooting and loading is Spot On, but you can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit.......

Any theories in sloppy SAAMI chamberings and factory barrels relating to poor ES or is it 100% loading?

 

[Sam Millard]

Sam-

Back when you were a Mortal and pre-DE days with factory rifles, was your load development so easy? Meaning, do you think it's possible to take a $599 Remington SPS 7mag and get an ES in the low 20s and .75 MOA out of it in short order? I know your shooting and loading is Spot On, but you can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit.......

Any theories in sloppy SAAMI chamberings and factory barrels relating to poor ES or is it 100% loading?

I didn't even know what ES was in my mortal/ pre-DE days

I think you can have excellent ES and poor precision, or the exact opposite, with a factory barrel. I believe low ES is mostly a factor of efficient and consistent powder burn.

The advantage a good barrel offers is unconditional precision, so all you have to do is focus on velocity tuning. The "bad" groups on this barrel are .75 MOA.

I have notebooks and binders full of load notes and targets from my factory gun days. I worked very hard at getting precision out of those rifles. Most of the crap I own for "precision reloading" was acquired before I owned a rifle capable of testing the loads produced by it. I don't use most of it now, and have sold a lot of it.

The best and worst thing I ever did was buy my first precision rifle. The barrel is where everything begins and ends.

Short answer: ES is a completely separate issue, and not dependent on precision or expensive barrels. Primer choice, neck tension, powder/powder charge, and consistency control ES.

 

[5MilesBack]

Is H1000 more consistent that RL-22? I've always used RL-22 in my 7mag without any issues, but going to be working up some 168gr Bergers this summer. I assume the H1000 will be more temp stable???

 

[Sam Millard]

Is H1000 more consistent that RL-22? I've always used RL-22 in my 7mag without any issues, but going to be working up some 168gr Bergers this summer. I assume the H1000 will be more temp stable???

I've used both a lot. They both work well as far as accuracy and velocity, but H1000 is completely temp stable, RL22 not so much.

 

[Retterath]

How important is it to debur the flash holes. I have never done it. Maybe it's more important since I'm shooting a magnum.

 

[Sam Millard]

How important is it to debur the flash holes. I have never done it. Maybe it's more important since I'm shooting a magnum.

Waste of time, other than to help keep corn cob media from hanging up in the flash hole

I used to do it, but tested a big batch against virgin brass and found no difference.

If you're going to weigh brass, deburring flash holes is one of the things that should be done to equalize the case weight.

 

[BARichardson]

My go to load for my 7mmWSM is 168gr VLD over 60.5gr of H4831sc. gets me about 2845fps in the WSM. I shot all my test at 300yd and from prone off bags. Then after I find my load I shoot my drop data at 600, 800, 1000 gona start shooting a little further data cause last year I had to reach out past my data for my .260Ackley (1170yd)

 

[Nogunjoe]

If Berger VLD, they usually like to be near the lands. I Try 5, 15, and 25 off. If Berger Hybrids, they can be anywhere from close to 100 off. Try 15, 30, 45, 60. Try them in increments of 15 then refine when you see which the gun likes. I just set up a gun that really prefers 55 off.
If Hodgdon powder, try their recommended accuracy load. When you find the seating depth the gun likes, try different powder charges in .5g increments up to a safe max load. If can't get it to shoot, I back powder down until it does. This usually gets me close to what the gun likes. Then I can fine tune.

Try different bullet weights if your first choice doesn't achieve goals. I had one gun that wouldn't accurately shoot 190g, 200g, 210g Hybrids or a VLD. Then I tried a 215g Berger Hybrid. It shoots them .3moa very consistently. So, keep trying and troubleshooting.

This usually gets me close, if the gun doesn't have other issues.

 

[KMD]

I start ALL load testing with the bullet jammed, specifically to find pressure threshold and velocity potential of that powder.

Once that has been established, I know for a fact that backing off the lands .010" will result in reduced pressure at the same powder charge. By back off the lands slightly from jammed, the pressure of that load will be reduced. And of course, you're not wanting to 'jam' a bullet for field shooting, anyway. But it does make sense to do so during load development, as it allows a margin of safety when backing off to 'fine tune' overall length...

~1% of total charge weight is a fair estimate for ladder steps, I use 0.5gr steps in my 7WSM, just for convenience.

I sometimes shoot my ladder tests over a chrono @ 300yds, to note vertical dispersion and velocity gains for each step. In ten shots or less, I will have learned about both the accuracy and velocity potential of that bullet/powder combo. What I'm looking for is clusters of reduced vertical dispersal, as that's where I will focus further accuracy testing around.

If eeeking the most speed out is not of paramount importance, I could skip the chrono when ladder testing, and prove/fine tune MV later on, using drop data from shooting at distance. Many ballistic calculators have a "truing" feature that modifies MV to match real world drop data, so using a chrono is really only a matter of convenience for getting in the ballpark for velocity. In that regard, chronos are a great guideline, but I always trust what the bullet is telling me, from impact on target. I do like my Magnetospeed, but what good is having an exact velocity reading if your ballistic app is just gonna change that value to fit your real world data, anyway? Just sayin'...

There's so many different ways to "find a load", I realize that some shooters enjoy the 'tinkering' aspect of load development. Have a friend who could drive me nuts with his constant fiddling & testing, LOL. But he enjoys that part of shooting, and that's what its all about! Personally, I tend to want to find a load as quickly & efficiently as possible, then commence shooting it. And when shooting overbore wildcats/hotrods, it behooves one to waste as little barrel life as possible on load development...

I run 162Amax/H4831SC in my 7WSM.
RL-22 with 168VLDS was superb, as well.

Good luck & have fun!!!

 

[Retterath]

So I went out and did some load testing with the 7wsm 168 bergers .010 off the lands shooting h1000. These three targets were the best groups at 100 and not impressed at all. Now is my best bet to pick the best group and adjust seating depths? The one group had an ok es, but some of the others were terrible on the es.

 

[Retterath]

The top right had 2943-2962-2956-2962
The bottom right had2911-2923-2917-2911
The left one had-3016-2982-2969-error
Sorry for the pic since it's side ways

 

[Cahunter805]

I go with the bottom right powder charge and play with seating depth in 010 increments. Let us know the results.

 

[Nogunjoe]

Are you using the Classic Hunter or VLD? The VLD usually prefers being near the lands. The Hunter off lands 60k is common.
Good velocity std dev on the group CAhunter805 picked!