Load Development ?'s (Noob thread)

[wilkINkc]

Brand new to reloading. I have purchased several manuals and have been reading them as well as watching a lot of youtube on the subject. I have a few questions about load development.

I have seen a few videos on the "ladder" method. I am interested in this at the moment. Assuming I start 2 grains below the max load for a powder.

Questions:

1. If doing the ladder would you test all 1/10ths from your starting point up to the maximum load, or would you stop once you found great consistency?

I originally wanted to test 3 bullets. Focusing on learning what I am doing with just 1 to start obviously. Many other great options to add this list but this is a starting point for me.

Hornady 147 ELDM
Hornady 143 ELDX
Nosler 140 Accubonds

2. Would you run this same test for multiple bullets IF you find something that works really well prior to testing them all, or even say the first bullet tested?

 

[Pickettpuncher]

.3 grains is what I generally do

 

[mtnbound]

I normally do a load at max charge then drop .5 grains, then drop .5 grains. Load 3-5 rounds at each and go shoot. I start shooting low to high looking for pressure and accuracy. If nothing looks good then I typically will change powders or bullets and repeat. If I find a load that’s acceptable I load 10-20 at that charge and go shoot them.

 

[wilkINkc]

I normally do a load at max charge then drop .5 grains, then drop .5 grains. Load 3-5 rounds at each and go shoot. I start shooting low to high looking for pressure and accuracy. If nothing looks good then I typically will change powders or bullets and repeat. If I find a load that’s acceptable I load 10-20 at that charge and go shoot them.

Does this method require a chrono?

 

[jlchester5045]

1. Typically, you would load them in .3-.5 grain increments. Yes, shoot all the way up to max unless pressure sign in recognized. It's not uncommon to come across two different "nodes" within the same ladder tests. If you stop shooting after the first node, you could be missing out on a node at a higher velocity.

2. Yes, you would want to run this test individually for each projectile.

Those three projectiles are good choices to start. I'm assuming your loading 6.5 Creedmoor? What are your plans with the rifle? Hunting? Target shooting?

With the ladder test, a chrono is crucial in my opinion. It's possible that two bullets impact close to each other by chance but having a chrono that verifies consistent velocity helps validate that you have found a node. Does that make sense?

 

[mtnbound]

Does this method require a chrono?

I do not use one. If I settle on a final load, I range validate it.

 

[wilkINkc]

1. Typically, you would load them in .3-.5 grain increments. Yes, shoot all the way up to max unless pressure sign in recognized. It's not uncommon to come across two different "nodes" within the same ladder tests. If you stop shooting after the first node, you could be missing out on a node at a higher velocity.

2. Yes, you would want to run this test individually for each projectile.

Those three projectiles are good choices to start. I'm assuming your loading 6.5 Creedmoor? What are your plans with the rifle? Hunting? Target shooting?

With the ladder test, a chrono is crucial in my opinion. It's possible that two bullets impact close to each other by chance but having a chrono that verifies consistent velocity helps validate that you have found a node. Does that make sense?

Thanks for the info. I have a Begara Ridge Carbon Wilderness in 6.5 PRC. 24 inch 1:8 threaded with a brake from the factory.

I have ordered a chrono because I felt it necessary for how I wanted to go about load development.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I load 3 rounds 0.5 grain below book max, at book max, and 0.5 grain above book max. I load them to the test COAL and get great accuracy for whatever bullet I choose to shoot. No sense in doing smaller increment changes than 0.5 grain. I never shoot new loads without a chrono. There’s really no reason not too.

 

[jlchester5045]

I just finished a 6.5 PRC build and started load development myself. In love with the cartridge so far. I’m working with the 127 LRX and 130 CX. Just finished the ladder test with H1000 and found some good potential loads. Gonna load up the nodes and get to the range soon to see how it goes.

 

[grappling_hook]

As a self-declared noob preparing to reload for your rifle the first time, especially with a hunting rifle, I think looking at ladders, minor changes in powder load, etc is too complicated. At this point, you just need to make decent ammo and go shoot. Then tweak and fine tune as/if needed later (it probably won't be, though).

Check this out: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/painless-load-development-mine.238400/

 

[Pickettpuncher]

You’re trying to use the satterlee method. I’ve tried it, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I followed the painless development thread on the last one and it worked out. I would pick a manual, drop a grain from max and shoot it. Go .3 up and down and see what happens. You’ll should see some results with that

 

[mtnbound]

Does this method require a chrono?

I wasn’t very clear that I continue to go over max load until I see signs of pressure then back down .5 grain. I am looking for the most accurate highest grain load.

I have seen a lot of friends get hung up on the chrono results and get fixated on trying all kinds of minor tweeks trying to make the fastest load with the worst accuracy better and sometimes they probably succeed but I don’t want to spend that much time trying to tweak a load when I’m the biggest variable, but some guys really get into it and to each there own.

For my range validation I use the listed velocity from the closest matching grain weight and input that into a ballistic calculator to get the drop chart, then I use a target with a water mark to compare what the drop chart is telling me and what the actual bullet drop is at varying ranges. These are shot with 10 rounds minimum. I will then adjust my listed MZ in the BC until the two results both are matching as close as possible.

I am no expert at reloading or LD but it was how I was taught. The thing to remember is you have to be open to try new techniques so listen to everyone and find the path that best fits you. Good luck.

 

[jlchester5045]

There is definitely something to be said about that link to the “painless load development”. It’s a really good read. When I got into reloading, I thought I needed to do all the hocus pocus and rain dances but quickly realized I could cut out most of that and still shoot small groups. For me the ladder test is less about finding a node and more about finding my max load. Pick a good powder, a good projectile, and a couple of powder charges towards the top of your max, seat a bullet, and shoot it. I even seat mine at book length. Don’t touch it unless I have too.

 

[Pharmseller]

I’ve been loading for over a decade and I still feel like a noob.

I look at various manuals and look for similarities around max loads for the projectiles I want to use, and the corresponding velocities, adjusted for barrel length.

Then I select a powder that provides the velocity I want at close to 98% (or so) case fill. I don’t like compressed loads, nor do I want a variable powder column.

I load 3 at max, minus .5 grains, and minus .5 more, then fire them over a chrono to confirm velocity compared to published data. I also look at the brass for ejector marks.

If no ejector marks I go with the highest velocity and create a seating depth test via the Berger method.

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

I do 4 rounds, 5 iterations. It’s never failed.

Most recently, my brother’s 6.5 PRC.



The load he selected




It works for me.





P

 

[NevadaMike]

I have been loading for about 5 years now and learned at Unknown Munitions from Jake, Ryan and the gang there. I have gotten way down in the weeds. I strongly encourage you to listen to these Hornady podcasts. It is contrary to what many of us do but they have the very best equipment, measuring tools and unlimited supplies.

 

[wilkINkc]

Components:
143 gr Hornady ELD-X
H1000 Powder
Hornady Brass
Remington Large Rifle 9 1/2 Primers


Like I said I am new to this and trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'm doing the ladder method.

Book max load = 59.0 gr

I started 2 grains below max. I know many wouldn't start this low but I felt it better to be safe than sorry on my first attempt.

Below is the chart for my velocity based on load. I forgot to put a primer in 57.2 so theres no data for it.

No signs of pressure on any of the cases that I can tell.

Based on this chart do you see a load I should make a few of and see how they shoot or continue going up the ladder?

Thanks in advance.

 

[NevadaMike]

Based on what I see and book max is 59 you could load up 10 at 57.5 and 58 and see how they group and confirm a good SD and ES. I really believe the Hornady podcasts and feel a larger sample size is important. Most importantly would be how it does on paper. Nice work and keep us posted! We will arm chair the hell out of this right along with you. I use this chart from the good folks and Unknown munitions.

Load Development Tool - Unknown Munitions

www.unknownmunitions.com

 

[eric1115]

Components:
143 gr Hornady ELD-X
H1000 Powder
Hornady Brass
Remington Large Rifle 9 1/2 Primers


Like I said I am new to this and trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'm doing the ladder method.

Book max load = 59.0 gr

I started 2 grains below max. I know many wouldn't start this low but I felt it better to be safe than sorry on my first attempt.

Below is the chart for my velocity based on load. I forgot to put a primer in 57.2 so theres no data for it.

No signs of pressure on any of the cases that I can tell.

Based on this chart do you see a load I should make a few of and see how they shoot or continue going up the ladder?

Thanks in advance.

View attachment 766514

If I were in your shoes, I'd load 15 more, from 57 to 58.5

Overkill? Absolutely. Will you find pressure? Possibly yes (but probably not dangerous pressure). Will the graph disabuse you of the notion of nodes? Probably yes.

Three different ladders with same components through the same barrel often show different nodes. Normal SD's produce random variation that looks like nodes. One ladder tells nothing. Several ladders usually show a steady increase in avg velocity.

 

[pbroski]

I have been loading for about 5 years now and learned at Unknown Munitions from Jake, Ryan and the gang there. I have gotten way down in the weeds. I strongly encourage you to listen to these Hornady podcasts. It is contrary to what many of us do but they have the very best equipment, measuring tools and unlimited supplies.

I wouldn't let the info from the Hornady guys be the end-all for load development. Keep an open mind. Their testing was done with heavier rifle/barrel combos akin to PRS, and testing was done at a max of 200 yards. What happens with lighter barrels (hunting rifles) at distance (like 500 to 600 yards) is another thing entirely. Powder charge differences and seating depth will make more of a difference with these rifles. Learn for yourself. Do your own testing and if you plan to shoot long range, do the testing at long range. I've done testing at long range with many rifle/load combo's (all hunting rifles). I see a difference. How much this difference actually matters in real world hunting situations however, is largely determined by an individuals shooting and wind reading abilities. But that's another subject.

 

[dukeball33]

Stop doing 0.1 grain increments, your scale is likely +|- 0.1 if not worse.

I would load 10 at 58 grains and shoot a group. If it looks good, be done.

If you want to do a ladder go in 0.5-1.0 grain increments starting 10% below max to where you find pressure signs then back off a grain.