Lighter bullets for less recoil in 6.5CM

[ztc92]

The OP is far from an average shooter. His form is good. He is 100% suppressed. His rifle fit is generally solid.

He is speaking in absolute terms of gun movement during recoil and spotting shots- there is a very objective and tangible difference between a 6cm and a 6.5cm with heavy bullets for each in the exact same rifles.

Thank you sir, you are too kind!

 

[HuntHarder]

I've been shooting the 130 VLD @2890 in my 6.5 CM. Right @ 750 yards it hits 1800? It is shooting insanely well and was the most accurate of the three 130's I tried. (TMK, ELD-X and VLD) With the Scythe on my rifle, I easily spot shots.

 

[Robobiss]

This is really the crux of it. How many of these “heavy for caliber” advantages are you giving up using the 107 TMK? It seems very few have experience using them on game. I have to think they’d still do as much damage as the 77TMK and probably as much as the 95TMK?

I picked up 500 that I found on sale, I’ll report back once I see how they shoot.

I think the only way to find out is to shoot an animal with them, or find an instance online of someone shooting an animal or ordinance gel with them.

Other than that, a 107 .264 bullet has very similar SD to a 150 grain .308 bullet. All things being equal one could assume similar penetration to a similarly constructed 150 grain .308 bullet at a similar impact velocity.

I said similar way too many times.

 

[wyosam]

Interestingly, on paper the 130TMK at 2700 FPS (my gun’s data) and the 107TMK at 2900 FPS (a conservative estimate) are nearly identical. They are both 5MPH guns for wind and both hit 1800 FPS at ~650 yards where I hunt, which is plenty far for me. The ELD-VT is just slightly better thanks to a similar BC to the 107TMK but with an increase in velocity to 3000 FPS (conservative estimate).

I haven’t played with numbers much on lead core, but when playing with various weights of Hammer bullets I have found the same thing more often than not. Granted BC sucks on monos anyway, but as you go lighter and the BC goes down, the extra speed pretty much makes it a wash.


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[4th_point]

I appreciate your interest in helping but I don’t think that’s my specific issue. As I mentioned, the 6mm and 6.5mm were notably different despite being set up nearly identical. In this case, they were both suppressed tikkas in rokstoks.

As for stock fit, I agree this is something I’m still figuring out. That said, I’ve shot fairly well using all manner of standard tikka stocks, modified tikka stocks, rokstoks and a KRG bravo. The stock fit may be playing a role but I’m confident the reduced bullet weight/caliber was most of what I experienced.

Edit - My original post came off very negative and confrontational, not my intention.

I didn't see the original post, so you're off the hook! Joking - I don't get offended easily - but keeping it positive sounds good

I typed a longwinded post but lost it - here's the gist:

I have a rifle, with similar recoil levels as an 8lb 6CM, and I can make that rifle track dead straight or come off target. Just in the adjustment - nothing else changes. Or, you have to fight it and that's my point here.​

Food for thought? And I agree that the difference between a 6M and 6.5CM can be perceived, all else being equal.

Do any of your stocks have the ability to adjust the location and orientation of the buttpad? Experiment with scope height? I know it sounds crazy.

 

[Castle Rock]

This is really the crux of it. How many of these “heavy for caliber” advantages are you giving up using the 107 TMK? It seems very few have experience using them on game. I have to think they’d still do as much damage as the 77TMK and probably as much as the 95TMK?

I picked up 500 that I found on sale, I’ll report back once I see how they shoot.

I would be very confident using that bullet on game, I used the 100 grain ballistic tip in my 260AI as my main hunting rifle for many years and shot literally hundreds of pigs and deer

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’ve shot a lot of 130tmk from mine, that’s a great bullet for the creedmoor, I’ve also had great luck with the 140eldm.

Both have been good enough that I could settle on either one. I’m going to play around with it a bit more and decide which one to use, ideally I’ll just have one load for every rifle, I have the 6.5 creedmoor down to 2 choices.

 

[ztc92]

I’ve shot a lot of 130tmk from mine, that’s a great bullet for the creedmoor, I’ve also had great luck with the 140eldm.

Both have been good enough that I could settle on either one. I’m going to play around with it a bit more and decide which one to use, ideally I’ll just have one load for every rifle, I have the 6.5 creedmoor down to 2 choices.

As the OP, please see this post on another thread. This, combined with less recoil is the reason I’m hesitant about using the 130TMK or anything larger in the future…

Shot a mule deer at 90 yards today while out hunting elk and due to caliber restrictions for elk in WY, I was carrying an 18” 6.5CM with 130 TMK handloads. To say this bullet is devastating would be an understatement. I think it would be a great choice for elk but is probably overkill for deer or anything smaller. I shot the crease, caught the posterior edge of the front shoulder on entrance and because he was slightly quartering away, I also caught the anterior edge of the other front shoulder with the exit. No entry or exit wound and no blood seen in the snow but he died within 30 yards. 3+ inch entrance wound through a rib, 6+ inch hole through the offside lung and absolute carnage on the offside shoulder with a ton of blood between the muscle and hide. Caught the bullet on the offside hide.

I’ll be using my 223 for deer and antelope going forward and hope to build a 6mm of some type in the future to carry when deer and elk are both possibilities.

Not sure how to link the thread/post including photos but if you follow my quote above to the 6.5 thread you’ll see necropsy photos of how devastating the 130TMK was on a mature mule deer.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

As the OP, please see this post on another thread. This, combined with less recoil is the reason I’m hesitant about using the 130TMK or anything larger in the future…



Not sure how to link the thread/post including photos but if you follow my quote above to the 6.5 thread you’ll see necropsy photos of how devastating the 130TMK was on a mature mule deer.

Sorry for mentioning how I was also looking at going to a lighter bullet.

 

[ztc92]

Sorry for mentioning how I was also looking at going to a lighter bullet.

No worries, I didn’t mean to say you shouldn't share that, I was just highlighting why I’m looking for something much lighter and less destructive than the 130TMK for deer and antelope.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

No worries, I didn’t mean to say you shouldn't share that, I was just highlighting why I’m looking for something much lighter and less destructive than the 130TMK for deer and antelope.

You might look at some of the hammer bullets, I’m not a huge fan of monos but I’ve shot a lot of the 124g hunters out of my creedmoor and they shot around 2930fps with a pretty standard varget load, I think it was 39 or 40 grains. I’d imagine with some of their lighter bullets you’d get plenty of speed. My only experience on game is seeing a few cow moose shot with my rifle and the 124g hammer.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

You might look at some of the hammer bullets, I’m not a huge fan of monos but I’ve shot a lot of the 124g hunters out of my creedmoor and they shot around 2930fps with a pretty standard varget load, I think it was 39 or 40 grains. I’d imagine with some of their lighter bullets you’d get plenty of speed. My only experience on game is seeing a few cow moose shot with my rifle and the 124g hammer.

What do you think of that bullet from a terminal perspective?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

What do you think of that bullet from a terminal perspective?

The 124g hammer hunter made clean holes into both moose, and got caught in the opposite side of their hides, both shed their petals like they were supposed to. One was around 200yds, the other closer to 300.

It’s sort of hard to give much experience though because I saw it 2 times in one day, both were perfectly placed shots, lungs, heart all that was ddamaged badly, one bullet hit a shoulder so there was some loss but it went right through and kept going.

That was like 3 years ago now,I’d shot moose in the fall so wasn’t looking for them. We were caribou hunting on snowmachines and saw moose so buddies used my gun.

I’d use that bullet again, I was all about that hammer load but sort of got away from it with the whole 140 eldm thing here on rokslide. I’m still have a few hundred of them I might load up at some point.

 

[Castle Rock]

No worries, I didn’t mean to say you shouldn't share that, I was just highlighting why I’m looking for something much lighter and less destructive than the 130TMK for deer and antelope.

Then disregard my last post, they are messy, that is what I like

 

[ztc92]

Then disregard my last post, they are messy, that is what I like

Yes, I think messy is a good description. I personally think it’s too much for deer but should be a great option for elk or anything else larger. Then again, if I was a good enough shot in the field to miss the shoulder with certainty I may feel different. I’m glad you like them, it’s a devastating bullet and my rifle shoots them very well.

 

[Dobermann]

I’m all in on smaller calibers for shooting and hunting and like many, my two go to rifles are a Tikka RSS in 223 for practice and a Tikka 6.5CM for hunting. I live in Wyoming so must have at least 6mm for elk and would prefer to have one go-to hunting rifle and load that I use for all big game. I set my 6.5CM up to shoot the 130TMK so I had one rifle I could carry for deer and elk.

A few friends have downsized to 6mm and after shooting our nearly identical Tikkas in 6.5CM with 130’s vs their 243 and 6CM with 108’s, I find the reduced recoil of he 6mm is even better. It was significant enough that it has me considering a rebarrel of my 6.5 to a 6mm. Then I came across the 100g ELD-VT and the 107TMK. It has me thinking maybe I should load these lighter bullets for practice and then use the 130’s for hunting. Thing is, I shot a mule deer buck with the 130TMK last year and the damage was catastrophic. I’d actually prefer a much smaller wound, at least for deer or antelope.

I’ve taken an elk with the 223/77TMK in Montana so I know it works. Given the damage seen with 77TMK and 95TMK, I suspect the 107TMK would be fine on deer and there are a few reports from hunters that support this. However, it gives me pause when I think of using it on elk since it is not heavy for caliber and may not penetrate as well.

Interestingly, on paper the 130TMK at 2700 FPS (my gun’s data) and the 107TMK at 2900 FPS (a conservative estimate) are nearly identical. They are both 5MPH guns for wind and both hit 1800 FPS at ~650 yards where I hunt, which is plenty far for me. The ELD-VT is just slightly better thanks to a similar BC to the 107TMK but with an increase in velocity to 3000 FPS (conservative estimate).

I may pick up some of the 107TMK to play with, and maybe even hunt with them if they shoot well. I just thought I’d share as I was surprised to see the 107 and 130 are nearly identical ballistically. I’d also be curious to hear from anyone with experience using the 107TMK on big game.

For those curious, this photo shows the two TMK’s I’m referencing and a few SMK’s as well.

I'm in a similar boat.

Acknowledging that you might end up going to 6 Creed in time, but might want to stick with 6.5 for now ... have you used/considered the 129 gr SST? In Nov last year, Form posted that "The SST is in general the SST is probably the best killing bullet that Hornady currently make ..." and, in 2021, "The 129 gr SST creates a wide wound channel and kills very well."

While I appreciate the 'heavy for caliber' argument, I'm personally interested in knowing more about how 120 gr ELD-Ms perform ... my guess is that on distances that most hunters should be shooting, they would do fine, but I haven't seen much about them.

 

[patagonialuke]

I'm in a similar scenario; just got a 6.5CM knowing that I'll likely want to get a 6mm barrel in the next 1-3 years. But for now, I'm curious about the potential terminal performance of a lighter factory option like 120gr ELD-M (my case is elk <400 yds out of an 18" suppressed barrel).

Given the potential penetration concerns I've gathered here re: lighter-for-caliber bullets, I would probably only consider this route if I notice a significant difference in recoil / impact-spotting between the 120gr vs. 140-147gr ELD variants. Will be testing that latter aspect that this weekend.

 

[Castle Rock]

I'm in a similar boat.

Acknowledging that you might end up going to 6 Creed in time, but might want to stick with 6.5 for now ... have you used/considered the 129 gr SST? In Nov last year, Form posted that "The SST is in general the SST is probably the best killing bullet that Hornady currently make ..." and, in 2021, "The 129 gr SST creates a wide wound channel and kills very well."

While I appreciate the 'heavy for caliber' argument, I'm personally interested in knowing more about how 120 gr ELD-Ms perform ... my guess is that on distances that most hunters should be shooting, they would do fine, but I haven't seen much about them.

With regards to the 120 ELDM, I believe it was designed for the Grendel, as was the 120 A Max.
I used the A Max in the 260AI a fair bit and it was very disappointing with shallow penetration and erratic results on game, I have a feeling that it would act similarly

 

[180ls1]

What do you think of that bullet from a terminal perspective?

It has served me very well (6.5 PRC pushed hard) on animals and is probably their most killingest/effective bullet.

 

[aschuler]

I'm shooting the 110HHs (I think they actually weight 107gns?) at ~3250 out of a 22" barrel. I haven't had a chance to shot anything but paper with them, but they shoot really well out of my rifle. I can notice a little lighter recoil, but subjectively it's not a big difference.