Lighter bullets for less recoil in 6.5CM

[ztc92]

I’m all in on smaller calibers for shooting and hunting and like many, my two go to rifles are a Tikka RSS in 223 for practice and a Tikka 6.5CM for hunting. I live in Wyoming so must have at least 6mm for elk and would prefer to have one go-to hunting rifle and load that I use for all big game. I set my 6.5CM up to shoot the 130TMK so I had one rifle I could carry for deer and elk.

A few friends have downsized to 6mm and after shooting our nearly identical Tikkas in 6.5CM with 130’s vs their 243 and 6CM with 108’s, I find the reduced recoil of he 6mm is even better. It was significant enough that it has me considering a rebarrel of my 6.5 to a 6mm. Then I came across the 100g ELD-VT and the 107TMK. It has me thinking maybe I should load these lighter bullets for practice and then use the 130’s for hunting. Thing is, I shot a mule deer buck with the 130TMK last year and the damage was catastrophic. I’d actually prefer a much smaller wound, at least for deer or antelope.

I’ve taken an elk with the 223/77TMK in Montana so I know it works. Given the damage seen with 77TMK and 95TMK, I suspect the 107TMK would be fine on deer and there are a few reports from hunters that support this. However, it gives me pause when I think of using it on elk since it is not heavy for caliber and may not penetrate as well.

Interestingly, on paper the 130TMK at 2700 FPS (my gun’s data) and the 107TMK at 2900 FPS (a conservative estimate) are nearly identical. They are both 5MPH guns for wind and both hit 1800 FPS at ~650 yards where I hunt, which is plenty far for me. The ELD-VT is just slightly better thanks to a similar BC to the 107TMK but with an increase in velocity to 3000 FPS (conservative estimate).

I may pick up some of the 107TMK to play with, and maybe even hunt with them if they shoot well. I just thought I’d share as I was surprised to see the 107 and 130 are nearly identical ballistically. I’d also be curious to hear from anyone with experience using the 107TMK on big game.

For those curious, this photo shows the two TMK’s I’m referencing and a few SMK’s as well.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

I am in the same boat: looking at light weight bullet options in 6.5cm for my wife. I was looking at Cutting Edge or Hammers to get around the potential lack of penetration of light for caliber lead bullets without cutting back a ton of terminal performance like a Barnes or CX would have… and my wife has gotten concerned about lead in the meat after something she read online since we have young kids that eat game.

While the exterior ballistics won’t be as good, it might be good enough.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I don’t have anything to offer as far as those lighter bullets, but I can say that the Tikka prefit 6 CM barrels that @hereinaz is offering would be hard not to try out for the price of them. Easy peasy to spin that 6.5 off and torque on a prefit.

 

[ztc92]

I don’t have anything to offer as far as those lighter bullets, but I can say that the Tikka prefit 6 CM barrels that @hereinaz is offering would be hard not to try out for the price of them. Easy peasy to spin that 6.5 off and torque on a prefit.

Ha! I’ve been reading his post about the 16” 6CM barrel and it is very hard to resist. I even have an action wrench as I tried to pull a barrel on a CTR (I learned I also need a barrel vise).

I think for this year I’ll probably stick with the 6.5 and spend my extra money on a rokstok or two but when this barrel is toast (my goal is to shoot out this barrel practicing), then it’s likely going to become a 6creed or maybe a smaller 6mm.

 

[z987k]

I am in the same boat: looking at light weight bullet options in 6.5cm for my wife. I was looking at Cutting Edge or Hammers to get around the potential lack of penetration of light for caliber lead bullets without cutting back a ton of terminal performance like a Barnes or CX would have… and my wife has gotten concerned about lead in the meat after something she read online since we have young kids that eat game.

While the exterior ballistics won’t be as good, it might be good enough.

Check out the drt bullets. Lead like performance from a non lead(non-mono).

The 135 makes a massive wound.

 

[MuleyFever]

I think you may be giving up a lot going to light for caliber bullets. Depending on how far you shoot it may not matter.

 

[4th_point]

A few friends have downsized to 6mm and after shooting our nearly identical Tikkas in 6.5CM with 130’s vs their 243 and 6CM with 108’s, I find the reduced recoil of he 6mm is even better. It was significant enough that it has me considering a rebarrel of my 6.5 to a 6mm.

It sounds like the Tikka stock doesn't fit - meaning under recoil the motion of the rifle don't jive with your body.

I'd look into that rather than chase chamberings.

When you get down to those low levels of recoil, and can still see the allure of going smaller, I would suggest reviewing the fit of the rifle first.

Rokstok is not a cure all. It can't be - there's not enough adjustment. Unless the design matches perfectly to your body and technique, which would be a miracle.

 

[hereinaz]

I’m all in on smaller calibers for shooting and hunting and like many, my two go to rifles are a Tikka RSS in 223 for practice and a Tikka 6.5CM for hunting. I live in Wyoming so must have at least 6mm for elk and would prefer to have one go-to hunting rifle and load that I use for all big game. I set my 6.5CM up to shoot the 130TMK so I had one rifle I could carry for deer and elk.

A few friends have downsized to 6mm and after shooting our nearly identical Tikkas in 6.5CM with 130’s vs their 243 and 6CM with 108’s, I find the reduced recoil of he 6mm is even better. It was significant enough that it has me considering a rebarrel of my 6.5 to a 6mm. Then I came across the 100g ELD-VT and the 107TMK. It has me thinking maybe I should load these lighter bullets for practice and then use the 130’s for hunting. Thing is, I shot a mule deer buck with the 130TMK last year and the damage was catastrophic. I’d actually prefer a much smaller wound, at least for deer or antelope.

I’ve taken an elk with the 223/77TMK in Montana so I know it works. Given the damage seen with 77TMK and 95TMK, I suspect the 107TMK would be fine on deer and there are a few reports from hunters that support this. However, it gives me pause when I think of using it on elk since it is not heavy for caliber and may not penetrate as well.

Interestingly, on paper the 130TMK at 2700 FPS (my gun’s data) and the 107TMK at 2900 FPS (a conservative estimate) are nearly identical. They are both 5MPH guns for wind and both hit 1800 FPS at ~650 yards where I hunt, which is plenty far for me. The ELD-VT is just slightly better thanks to a similar BC to the 107TMK but with an increase in velocity to 3000 FPS (conservative estimate).

I may pick up some of the 107TMK to play with, and maybe even hunt with them if they shoot well. I just thought I’d share as I was surprised to see the 107 and 130 are nearly identical ballistically. I’d also be curious to hear from anyone with experience using the 107TMK on big game.

For those curious, this photo shows the two TMK’s I’m referencing and a few SMK’s as well.

Great post. I have been saying this for a long time:

In general, velocity beats BC inside 500 yards. So choose velocity if you are shooting short and want the other benefits—like reduced recoil.

DOPE is time of flight dependent, so starting fast wins.

Think of small fast bullets like the a sprinter, you’ll take them in a short race. But, when you go for a long race you want the lean marathoner.

It’s not until the 600 yard mark and beyond that the effect of BC starts to “win” the race. So most hunters can use a smaller lighter bullet in their 6.5 Creedmoor if they want.

Now, it won’t beat a bullet of the same weight in a smaller caliber because it has the velocity AND BC.

 

[sndmn11]

I've used the 85gr hammers on one buck started around 3500fps and it worked great. It will be the kids' load when they are old enough because there's a drastic difference in recoil compared to the alternative 140gr bullets. 300yds and in will be great.

 

[LeftyWilbury]

thread that 6.5CM, stick a can on the end. that will make a huge difference in recoil and enjoyment.

then buy another rifle and build a 6CM. because that's how this game works.

i do love my .243 tikka though. it's a laser, and suppressed.

 

[hereinaz]

It sounds like the Tikka stock doesn't fit - meaning under recoil the motion of the rifle don't jive with your body.

I'd look into that rather than chase chamberings.

When you get down to those low levels of recoil, and can still see the allure of going smaller, I would suggest reviewing the fit of the rifle first.

Rokstok is not a cure all. It can't be - there's not enough adjustment. Unless the design matches perfectly to your body and technique, which would be a miracle.

I agree, rifle fit/scope mounting, etc. can have drastic effects on shooting. I always start there.

Form is another place, if your form sucks so you can’t control recoil, then work on form. Almost everyone I see shoot needs improvement (just like me) and reps (just like me).

But, there can be an appreciable difference by dropping caliber and/or weight as well. It’s the same with adding a couple pounds to a rifle to reduce recoil.

For me, I can see the difference in shooting the same well fit rifle with my same decent form with different calibers.

Dropping from 140 to 108 grains is a significant difference to me and many others.

 

[hereinaz]

Ha! I’ve been reading his post about the 16” 6CM barrel and it is very hard to resist. I even have an action wrench as I tried to pull a barrel on a CTR (I learned I also need a barrel vise).

I think for this year I’ll probably stick with the 6.5 and spend my extra money on a rokstok or two but when this barrel is toast (my goal is to shoot out this barrel practicing), then it’s likely going to become a 6creed or maybe a smaller 6mm.

That’s a solid plan. If you don’t have a suppressor, I would do that before a Rokstock.

Your 6.5 light bullet plan is a good one. It will only limit you at the edge of your max range. Wind speed is a factor there.

When the time comes, unless you are planning to swap lots of barrels frequently, you are better off sending in the rifle to have a prefit swapped, IMO.

The learning curve to pull a barrel and the cost don’t make sense for a barrel every few years.

 

[JGRaider]

130 AB at 2800, problem solved.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

One of the points Form made in multiple podcasts was the “heavier for caliber” line that he says is more about terminal performance and how the bullet separates due to being longer. Wonder if you will see a difference.

 

[4th_point]

But, there can be an appreciable difference by dropping caliber and/or weight as well. It’s the same with adding a couple pounds to a rifle to reduce recoil.

We're on the same page, and I agree, but none of the work arounds address the root cause which is poor fit.

And optimal fit is difficult to achieve with most stocks.

 

[hereinaz]

We're on the same page, and I agree, but none of the work arounds address the root cause which is poor fit.

And optimal fit is difficult to achieve with most stocks.

Right, it doesn’t make sense to change rims if the tires are worn…

Fix all the problems. Maybe you won’t actually need new rims…

 

[Formidilosus]

The OP is far from an average shooter. His form is good. He is 100% suppressed. His rifle fit is generally solid.

He is speaking in absolute terms of gun movement during recoil and spotting shots- there is a very objective and tangible difference between a 6cm and a 6.5cm with heavy bullets for each in the exact same rifles.

 

[ztc92]

It sounds like the Tikka stock doesn't fit - meaning under recoil the motion of the rifle don't jive with your body.

I'd look into that rather than chase chamberings.

When you get down to those low levels of recoil, and can still see the allure of going smaller, I would suggest reviewing the fit of the rifle first.

Rokstok is not a cure all. It can't be - there's not enough adjustment. Unless the design matches perfectly to your body and technique, which would be a miracle.

I appreciate your interest in helping but I don’t think that’s my specific issue. As I mentioned, the 6mm and 6.5mm were notably different despite being set up nearly identical. In this case, they were both suppressed tikkas in rokstoks.

As for stock fit, I agree this is something I’m still figuring out. That said, I’ve shot fairly well using all manner of standard tikka stocks, modified tikka stocks, rokstoks and a KRG bravo. The stock fit may be playing a role but I’m confident the reduced bullet weight/caliber was most of what I experienced.

Edit - My original post came off very negative and confrontational, not my intention.

 

[ztc92]

thread that 6.5CM, stick a can on the end. that will make a huge difference in recoil and enjoyment.

then buy another rifle and build a 6CM. because that's how this game works.

i do love my .243 tikka though. it's a laser, and suppressed.

I 100% agree with this but it’s already cut and threaded, running a scythe Ti on it. That would absolutely be my top priority if not already done though!

 

[ztc92]

One of the points Form made in multiple podcasts was the “heavier for caliber” line that he says is more about terminal performance and how the bullet separates due to being longer. Wonder if you will see a difference.

This is really the crux of it. How many of these “heavy for caliber” advantages are you giving up using the 107 TMK? It seems very few have experience using them on game. I have to think they’d still do as much damage as the 77TMK and probably as much as the 95TMK?

I picked up 500 that I found on sale, I’ll report back once I see how they shoot.