Leupold Freedom VS Vortex Diamondback HP

[Axlrod]

What in the world? Does a more reliable brand under $500 exist than Leupold? Especially when we are talking the $300 level like the VX-Freedom, I seriously doubt there is a better scope on the market. This is the snobbiest post I've read in a long time.

@nkgillil, For the price range you are looking, there isn't a better scope out there than the VX-Freedom. That's not to say there aren't some as good. Leupolds are rugged and have decent glass.

There is a $300 scope that is better than anything Leupold makes. SWFA, and it isn't even close.

Call me snobbish if you want but, I have more SWFA's than any other brand. One of my favorite rifles to shoot is a $250 savage M12 varmint 223 with a $300 SWFA on it.

The only reason Leupold, Vortex, etc are still in business is because people believe that taking the scope caps off, and adjusting their zero every range trip is normal. So very few scopes get returned for losing zero.

Leupold can't make a $2000- $3000 scope that is reliable:

2x Leupold Mark 5 Field Evaluations

This is a field evaluation of the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44mm and the Leupold Mark 5 5-25x56mm. These scopes were brought to me from Ryan Avery for evaluation. The ammunition used for the 3.6-18x was Federal 168gr GMM, and for the 5-25x was Hornady ELD-M Match 168gr that was purchased by Ryan...

rokslide.com

 

[Thinkingman]

What in the world? Does a more reliable brand under $500 exist than Leupold? Especially when we are talking the $300 level like the VX-Freedom, I seriously doubt there is a better scope on the market. This is the snobbiest post I've read in a long time.

@nkgillil, For the price range you are looking, there isn't a better scope out there than the VX-Freedom. That's not to say there aren't some as good. Leupolds are rugged and have decent glass.

I was going to post Burris FFII but someone beat me to it.
I compared Burris to LeeOhPold sxs and it wasn't even close for clarity.
My Burris scopes are just great pieces and perform far better than their price tag would suggest.

 

[Boltgun]

The only reason Leupold, Vortex, etc are still in business is because people believe that taking the scope caps off, and adjusting their zero every range trip is normal. So very few scopes get returned for losing zero.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

I have some hunting buddies that run Vortex Diamondback HD and Vipers, and they’re ok for what they are. Does the tracking blow? Yep. But once zeroed, they’ve all held zero pretty well, and been functional for 200-yd type deer hunts. MUCH better scopes exist though!

 

[Novashooter]

If I had those problems, I wouldn't be a Leupold fan either. As it is, I have yet to have a problem with a Leupold for myself or anyone else. Full disclosure, I do not do box tests, I do not care about such things. All I care is that they hold zero. They sure seem to be 1/4 MOA per click, or very close to it to me. I've never had one that did as kpk described. I've certainly never had one loose zero. Leupold is the brand you go to for heavy recoiling guns like slug guns and handguns.

Maybe I'm way out of the loop, but this is the first time I've ever even heard of SWFA. Never seen an advertisement for one, never heard anyone recommend one, never seen one on a rifle. That doesn't mean they are bad, it could be they are like what Ultradot is to red dots.

 

[Leverwalker]

I've had a Leu FX II on my heavy-loaded 45-70 for years, and I don't have any issue with drift (2015 and 2023 groups for comparative). Can't say with my VXIII on my .338 WM, which is new to me as of this year.



(2015, 425 WFNGC, 39.5 IMR 4198)



2023, 405 WFNGC, 33.8 AA 5744.

 

[Axlrod]

I've had a Leu FX II on my heavy-loaded 45-70 for years, and I don't have any issue with drift (2015 and 2023 groups for comparative). Can't say with my VXIII on my .338 WM, which is new to me as of this year.

View attachment 604781

(2015, 425 WFNGC, 39.5 IMR 4198)

View attachment 604790

2023, 405 WFNGC, 33.8 AA 5744.

Your top group is 1.5" right of the bullseye. The bottom group is 2.5" right & 1" low of the bullseye. To me that is drift.

 

[Axlrod]

Methinks you doth protest too much.

I have some hunting buddies that run Vortex Diamondback HD and Vipers, and they’re ok for what they are. Does the tracking blow? Yep. But once zeroed, they’ve all held zero pretty well, and been functional for 200-yd type deer hunts. MUCH better scopes exist though!

Not protesting anything. Just stating facts. Functional for 200 yards on deer does not prove a scope holds zero. Holding zero means always hitting your point of aim without re-zeroing. Most scopes will not do this. Next time at the range, observe the other shooters. They zeroed their scope last year before hunting season, shot a deer and put it away. And now it needs re-zeroing? That should not be acceptable.

 

[Leverwalker]

Your top group is 1.5" right of the bullseye. The bottom group is 2.5" right & 1" low of the bullseye. To me that is drift.

No, both are (different) load developments, and so I didn't care where the groups landed, I cared about precision. But now that you mention it I realize that has nothing to do with drift, sorry. All I can say is that it has held zero for years without issue.

 

[Novashooter]

Not protesting anything. Just stating facts. Functional for 200 yards on deer does not prove a scope holds zero. Holding zero means always hitting your point of aim without re-zeroing. Most scopes will not do this. Next time at the range, observe the other shooters. They zeroed their scope last year before hunting season, shot a deer and put it away. And now it needs re-zeroing? That should not be acceptable.

That's hardly a fact. I've never seen a Leupold that needed to be re sighted in the next year.

 

[Marshfly]

That's hardly a fact. I've never seen a Leupold that needed to be re sighted in the next year.

You haven’t seen many Leupolds then.

Or you must tap your turrets with the back of a screwdriver just the right way.


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[ScreamingPotato]

Man the Leupold Derangement Syndrome around here gets old. I've seen many Leupolds, many many. I don't know if problems exist but myself and everyone I know have had many gold rings and losing zero just isn't something that happens but you'll read here on Rokslide constantly about it. Probably all these cheap Talley bases everyone puts stuff in. I was present when the screws on those old windage adjustable bases came loose and helped that dude fix it up and sight it in again, definitely don't recommend that Leupold product even though my 31 year old Vari-X III has been zero's since I was 16 with that mount and never touched until my son switched ammo. Assuming people are at the range to rezero every year is a pretty big assumption. I'm no fanboy though so I pay attention to all the scope threads, have multiple brands of all sorts of optics. I'm super interested in objective real info, but I feel like that's not something we get here on RS with the LDS going on and feel like the feedback is suspect.

 

[Novashooter]

I have owned plenty, and seen plenty more. It is the most common brand I see.

Not sure what hitting them with a screwdriver has to do with anything. No, never done that, nor have I seen that done.

Man, the Internet is a wild place sometimes.

 

[Marshfly]

I have owned plenty, and seen plenty more. It is the most common brand I see.

Not sure what hitting them with a screwdriver has to do with anything. No, never done that, nor have I seen that done.

Man, the Internet is a wild place sometimes.

Growing up all of the "serious" hunters had Leupold. Extremely common for them to need range trips every year before the season to resight in their rifles. Virtually all of them would tap on the scope or fire one shot to "settle the crosshairs." Thinking back...how dumb.

This was WAAAAY before the internet.

 

[Novashooter]

Growing up all of the "serious" hunters had Leupold. Extremely common for them to need range trips every year before the season to resight in their rifles. Virtually all of them would tap on the scope or fire one shot to "settle the crosshairs." Thinking back...how dumb.

This was WAAAAY before the internet.

Ok, well maybe in the stone ages Leupold wasn't as good. I was born just before the Internet was invented by Al Gore.

Never seen a bad Leupold in my lifetime that required any hitting, or lost zero. For sure the most consistently reliable brand under $500 that I've seen. The only ones I've seen that are as bad as you claim were the $30 Tasco Walmart special, and even half of those held zero... right up until they didn't work at all ever again.

 

[TxxAgg]

If I had those problems, I wouldn't be a Leupold fan either. As it is, I have yet to have a problem with a Leupold for myself or anyone else. Full disclosure, I do not do box tests, I do not care about such things. All I care is that they hold zero. They sure seem to be 1/4 MOA per click, or very close to it to me. I've never had one that did as kpk described. I've certainly never had one loose zero. Leupold is the brand you go to for heavy recoiling guns like slug guns and handguns.

Maybe I'm way out of the loop, but this is the first time I've ever even heard of SWFA. Never seen an advertisement for one, never heard anyone recommend one, never seen one on a rifle. That doesn't mean they are bad, it could be they are like what Ultradot is to red dots.

If you've never even heard of SWFA perhaps you aren't as experienced as you think you are.

 

[50bowhunter]

I have 4 diamondbacks. I have never had a single issue with any of them. Sure, they aren’t a high end scope, but if you want something acceptably clear at a good value, they are great


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[Reed104R]

You get what you pay for on this business. Vortex has come a long way and their high end optics are excellent. The US Government recently contracted with Vortex to manufacture small arms optics systems for the military at a cost of 2.7 billion dollars. These scopes represent some of the most advanced techology ever used in small arms optics and will be made in the USA.

 

[Axlrod]

Man the Leupold Derangement Syndrome around here gets old. I've seen many Leupolds, many many. I don't know if problems exist but myself and everyone I know have had many gold rings and losing zero just isn't something that happens but you'll read here on Rokslide constantly about it. Probably all these cheap Talley bases everyone puts stuff in. I was present when the screws on those old windage adjustable bases came loose and helped that dude fix it up and sight it in again, definitely don't recommend that Leupold product even though my 31 year old Vari-X III has been zero's since I was 16 with that mount and never touched until my son switched ammo. Assuming people are at the range to rezero every year is a pretty big assumption. I'm no fanboy though so I pay attention to all the scope threads, have multiple brands of all sorts of optics. I'm super interested in objective real info, but I feel like that's not something we get here on RS with the LDS going on and feel like the feedback is suspect.

I am at the range several times per week. I see scope caps on the benches every trip to the range. As the stores around here primarily cary only Leupold and Vortex, there are a lot more of those in use than any others. In the weeks leading up to hunting season nearly every person is re-zeroing. This is many hundreds of data points, so zero assumption there.

So continue on, like many others with your LDS- Leupold delusional syndrome if you wish. But if you are truly "super interested in objective real info", that is repeatable and can be done by anyone, it is here for you:

Rifle Scope Field Evaluations

rokslide.com

 

[Huntsalot]

Leupolds are rugged

We've obviously had different experiences with Leupold. I've had such poor experiences that I lost all confidence in them. I sold off almost all of mine in the last few years. Even higher end Leupolds fail at torture test.

Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL Field Evaluation

This is a field evaluation of a Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL scope. This scope was sent to Ryan Avery for an evaluation. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over 1.3 MOA. The scope and weight- Turrets...

rokslide.com

2x Leupold Mark 5 Field Evaluations

This is a field evaluation of the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44mm and the Leupold Mark 5 5-25x56mm. These scopes were brought to me from Ryan Avery for evaluation. The ammunition used for the 3.6-18x was Federal 168gr GMM, and for the 5-25x was Hornady ELD-M Match 168gr that was purchased by Ryan...

rokslide.com

 

[Boltgun]

I think in some ways we’re talking apples to oranges here. For example:


Shooter #1: Joe deer hunter wants to be able to hit deer vitals at 300 yds, a ~9” target. 3moa of accuracy allows for this. He gets out his VXII or diamondback after the summer, and shoots a target at 100yds. It shoots a 1” 3 shot group that’s 1” high and 1” left. He feels good that his rifle is shooting sub-moa, and he could take that 300 yd shot. Maybe he “fine tunes” his zero just to make sure he’s really dialed in.

Did that scope move over the summer? Or did it move when he was climbing up his deer stand last season for opening day? Doesn’t really matter to Joe, either way he can take that 300 yd shot and he feels good about his rifle.

Shooter #2: John precision rifle guy zeros his VXII or diamondback. It shoots a 1” group at 100 yds. Using his 4DOF app, he plugs in his data and is making hits out to 800. Later that week he brags to his buddy about his setup, and that weekend they go back out to the range and start at 800. John is unable to make good hits, and returns to the zero range to find his zero has shifted 1” up and 1” left. This situation repeats a few times, and he swears off of Leupold and Vortex.

It depends on what exactly is meant by “holds zero.” To Joe, that’s been a reliable scope holding zero for years. To John, it’s garbage that doesn’t hold zero at all.