let's talk active insulation!

[Jimss]

Obviously layers are key It's wise to have a variety to cover a range of conditions One of my favorites is a fleece vest They are super quiet and arm and armpits breath freely while active

Cabelas makes a couple thickness of micro fleece shirts the heavier one wears like iron

Obviously fit is important. I've slowly been filtering away from Sitka pants. They tend to sag in the crotch area and don't fit my particular lower body. Kuiu pants have long legs and fit me super well. I tried tiburons on a sheep hunt this fall and boy did they breath well and were super light and compact. With a base layer and rain pants I'm set for early season pants. Switch over to guide pants when it gets cold and I'm active.

 

[Iketurner]

Any other brand/styles you guys reccomend?

 

[204guy]

I think I learned it from Mtwarden, but a long sleeve t, like the sitka lw hoody and a Black Diamond alpine start or a wind shirt like Arcteryx squamish could handle about 85% of my hiking needs down to about 30°. I also wore an OR ascendant hoody a lot this past year. It's a really good piece that has a little bit of weather protection but still breathes well. It's not as warm as the more common active insulation pieces.

I also have a nano air, kuiu kenai, sitka kelvin active, I like them all but they're too warm to wear hiking hard unless it's pretty cold or very windy or you're moving pretty slow. I also found myself trying to wear a traditional fleece mid layer under these jackets which didn't work very well, they should replace your fleece.


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[Shraggs]

As I began to hunt a little more later and colder in season I began this quest myself. One day or so got a spell of cold and wind late archery and I was cold, put on my halstead over base and under my FL Chugash shirt (can’t hike in a puffy), but I got a little sweaty on my back we’re pack sits. so I got my old woolrich 30oz wool button down shirt over just my base got ride of other two. That shirt is warm and to my surprise it breathed better than my halstead, warmer too. But not at all cut for active hunting.

So with help from fellow Roksliders, I bought kelvin active, sawtooth and an ll bean commando merino wool sweater to try as the cold mild layer.

it was chilly, misting and windy one night as i tried them. With just a tee shirt under and static, the wool sweater was the warmest, followed closely by the KA, last was sawtooth. then i hiked with 40 lbs 1/2 mile each. the KV is so porous the wind cut right thru leaving me chilly, the sweater was also porous and the wind cut thru but left me warmer, the sawtooth was a real surprise with the insulation layer it afforded some wind bloc and was the most comfortable to walk in those conditions. None of those pooled sweat on my back.

the large KA fit, but i had some binding, the XL a bit too large so it went back. i kept the sawtooth and sweater, and they layer together. ST about 21 oz, sweater was 22-23 oz, kinda heavy.

so i just got back from Dillion Mt did last few days of rifle (no damn elk), but that winter storm was brutal - at least for me. over a foot of snow up high and single digits with wind and still snowing. ST not enough for me as we were moving pretty slow thru snow. so put sweater on and ST over and man was that comfortable while active - moderate pace.

not thrilled with the weight, but it worked and worked well. so my cold weather system is FL kiln, FL ST, FL chamberlin, with the sweater as needed in the pack depending, and a i have an 8 oz NF thermoball vest if needed too.

My moderate system is lano base, Patagonia nano air hybrid (mentioned above, thanks by the way I own one now!) (I think this was the basis maybe for the sawtooth...) and uncompra spelling ? jacket with a halstead fleece in the pack if needed.

I know this will be crazy, but I do very thin pure silk under my wool base too. Even in shape I sweat, which doesn’t mix well with cold. Thin wool wicks fine for me, but mid weights I tend to get some pooling. I can’t do synthetic at all, but silk isn’t very hydrophilic? either. REI makes a thin one for a few ounces and really shear and delicate that I put on first, then my mid wool. Doesn’t matter how hard I work I’m not pooling and it’s moving moisture out.

 

[andydwyer]

Active insulation -- I've tried a few different things. The North Face Ventrix is nice, but a little warm for me (80g I think). The Summit L3 version is a bit lighter (60g). They both breathe and stretch well, but I was a little underwhelmed with the durability of the fabric on the shoulders on the Summit version.

I now have an Atom LT, it's pretty nice and I think it vents pretty well with the fleece on the sides.

Having owned old Primaloft jackets, I'm not sure that the active insulation is any better, but the stretch fabrics are nice.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I'm in the same boat as you Warden.

Typically use a lightweight merino blend short sleeve T against the skin.

Second layer, based on temps and activity is a Sitka Core LW hoody, Core HW hoody or 1/4 zip, or patagonia R1 hoody.

If really cold, another insulation layer before wind shell is nice. I started using Kuiu insulated snap shirt. The kuiu 3DFX is another good active insulation and this shirt only weighs 8 oz and 40 grams/M^2 insulation weight hits a nice spot. It serves a similar purpose to a sitka kelvin active type jacket but even lighter.

Patagonia houdini wind shirt (3.6 ounces) gets used in windy and open environments if i'm not bow hunting or still hunting/tracking game. If noise is crucial, a heavier and quieter soft shell with pit zips gets used. I typically use a kuiu chinook but would like to add a sitka jetstream to the stable.

*Side note - I wont buy any more patagucci as long as they are supporting entities trying to ban predator hunting, but I already have the stuff..

Me too.

 

[mtwarden]

bumping an old thread

Montana is experiencing a very cold Fall this year, even more than normal picking active layers in very cold weather is even more critical- you get too wet and have to stop, it can be outright dangerous

I'd agree the R1 is a little heavy for high exertion (running/skiing/snowshoeing/etc); for still hunting in cool to cold it works pretty well (as does the Heavyweight Core)- I use a Patagonia thermal weight hoody for high exertion stuff in colder weather- grid fleece like the R1, just a lighter fabric weight

Well looks like I'll get a chance to try the Nano Air Light after all, picked up an XL on ebay last night for $65

I got to use the Nano Air Light extensively last winter and early spring and again elk hunting this fall- it's a great piece and you can still find them on ebay, poshmark and even Patagonia's used clothing site, I just ordered another to have a spare.

My active setup for cold weather remains Patagonia Thermal Weight hoody now with the Nano Air over it, if it's particularly windy (or colder yet), I'll add a windshirt over the two other pieces. Fora bottom base layer I use the same Thermal Weight stuff and fairly recently tried Sitka's Timberline pants, I'm impressed with the pants thus far.

I spent at least a dozen (cold) days chasing elk with this setup and covered a lot of miles in steep country (high exertion stuff! ) and it flat out worked.

Nice to have a clothing setup dialed in!

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I hadn’t read this thread before, definitely a solid one. Especially timely, like you said.

I think that 40g weight on the active insulation seems to be a sweet spot. I’ve got a Kuiu Kenai with pit zips that works well, but it has to be cold as hell to cruise around in that, and they use a ton of that same insulation as in the Patagonia nano air line. I had that Kuiu snap shirt and it worked well, but the face fabric wasn’t all that great. I’d really like a nano air hoody that’s lighter in insulation than the standard one to replace a fleece mid layer when it’s a lot colder.

I’ve been back to the softshells trying to work that angle for late season. Trying a gamma mx hoody with merino base, and throwing a stretch fleece hoody under that for cold periods. Mainly because I’m tired of getting cut down by wind in active insulation pieces.

I’ve got an atom lt hoody that works surprisingly well for moving uphill and around if you aren’t really cranking super fast and steep - really handles wind, and the fleece sides breath great. Used that in the breaks during that last super cold snap. I could see that atom SL being a pretty awesome balance of tougher, breathable, warm, able to move moisture and able to buck some wind. Probably next thing I’ll try.....

 

[Brunt The Grunt]

I'm kind of a layer guy

up top: adventure tech baselayer short or long sleeve, integral designs logan vest, tad gear explorer, mountain hardwear exposure. Think the vest is primaloft Pit zips on the explorer and exposure help with venting. Winning combo for me

down bottom: under armour heatgear 9 inch boxers, adventure tech baselayer long pants, sometype of nylon pants, patagonia micro puffs, patagonia PCU lvl 6 goretex outer. some church socks for liners that ride under wigwam or merino wool socks. I keep a pair of Integral designs VB's in the bag if needed.

 

[mtwarden]

I had an SL, it's nice piece, but was wanting something a little warmer- it's really thin in the sleeves and the hood has no insulation

it had a really good DWR fabric which cut light precipitation and wind pretty good, but that ate into it's breathability

definitely worthwhile trying, just wasn't the piece I was looking for

 

[JohnB]

I've been wearing the bejeezus out of my Outdoor Resesch Ascendant jacket. It's a little much for fast hiking but does great still hunting and moving along ridges and other places where I'm stopping to glass every 5 or 10 minutes.

 

[mtwarden]

my wife has an Ascendent and loves it; it does look like it has a little more insulation than the Nano Air (and Light), but as you say, if you're not amping up too much, might be just right

Dave C also likes his

https://bedrockandparadox.com/2019/12/29/or-ascendant-hoody-at-last/

 

[ramsdude47]

Big fan of the TNF Ventrix, especially at the prices on EBay

 

[Laelkhunter]

Quick question on layering, the thin synthetic (poly) shirt goes on before the merino wool, then the merino on top of it? I might have been doing it wrong, but I seem to recall that some wear the merino wool against the skin, then the poly shirt on top??

 

[mtwarden]

if I'm wearing merino it typically means a longer hunt and the benefits of odor control outweigh the quicker drying of synthetic, then I want the merino layer closest to the skin

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I had an SL, it's nice piece, but was wanting something a little warmer- it's really thin in the sleeves and the hood has no insulation

it had a really good DWR fabric which cut light precipitation and wind pretty good, but that ate into it's breathability

definitely worthwhile trying, just wasn't the piece I was looking for

I tried that gamma mx hoody out over aa aerowool wick baselayer, pretty solid performance actually, but I was in crazy winds and colder, so kind of fits that bill. Not an earlier season replacement for a fleece by any means.

I've been looking at that Proton FL piece as well, looks like more what I've been looking for (lighter insulated active hooded piece) compared with that SL.

 

[406unltd]

There are a lot of variables to answer the titled question. Much like most things regarding gear choices, this too is a personal preference. What is being used along with it? What kind of temps are you in? Do you run hot or cold? Are you moving slowly or getting after it? How aggressive is the terrain you are moving through, and at what speed are you moving through it? The list likely goes on. There are too many different combinations of these variables for me to say what is best in my opinion. What I like to use in select situations may make another guy roll his eyes or question what I’m thinking. In the end to each their own.

 

[mtwarden]

^^ I hadn't seen that Proton FL before- looks promising, pretty positive reviews

^I'm not sure any one was asking for the "best", simply a discussion on active insulation

 

[H80Hunter]

I have a Rab Alpha Flash that I really really like for layering.

 

[mtwarden]

^ that's a cool idea- Polartec Alpha with no fabric to sandwich on the outside/inside; that should definitely breathe well!