Legal by curl in Alaska?

[wantj43]

Sheep horn 2 - Download Free 3D model by wantj43

Sheep horn 2 - Download Free 3D model by wantj43

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[MBN]

Short on stick test and circle

 

[adventure907]

My thoughts:

Doesn't pass the angle base test. Doesn't pass the stick test. Cannot get the proper angle to judge the circle test, but likely doesn't pass that as well. These are the type of rams that should be passed on and tends to get guys in trouble.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

I'm only an aspiring sheep hunter, but the one mentioned looks almost identical to the one on page 6 here listed as sub legal. https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...ep_hunting_full_curl_identification_guide.pdf

 

[Yellowknife]

I’ve shot some smallish rams, but that one is a pass for me.

 

[Bambistew]

Pass, legal or not he could live a few more years.

 

[Homer]

Jail bait. The amount of sub legal sheep shot in Alaska is getting out of hand and will probably continue to get worse now that everyone just has to get “their ram”. If it’s questionable don’t shoot it.

 

[adventure907]

The ram pictured on the left is the type of ram that will get people in trouble. This ram clearly is young, clearly "close", and clearly needs a few more years. Yet, this is the type of ram that is getting shot all too often these days.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Alaska needs to buckle up and change up their policies on sheep
and native subsistence hunting and foraging

 

[diamond10x]

Fails all three tests. Haven’t sheep hunted but will for the first time this year or next and been studying up like crazy. Stick test and base angle are an obvious fail, playing with the model I can’t even get him close enough to make an argument of being questionably legal.

 

[Broomd]

Hard pass...

 

[smg]

I can appreciate why this ram shouldn't be shot for age, too close, etc. - all the reasons stated above. But based on ADFG (side profile and slightly below), I think an argument could be made that it meets the full circle test or at least gets within a tenth of inch of being legal. Its a pass for me because its too close but I would love to know the history behind the ram and whether it passed or not - maybe someone knows?

 

[wantj43]

The ram is about 3/4ths of an inch short of being full-way too close to call in the field. With recent software developments it is easier to quantify the actual degrees of curl.

 

[smg]

Does ADFG use software in determining full curl when hunters bring rams in for sealing? I know of a six year old ram that was shot in 2022 that was close to the one presented here. The ram was concluded as legal - one ADFG rep felt it was full curl while another did not believe it was full curl and the tie breaker went to the third rep who sided in favor of the hunter as passing the full circle test. I spoke to the hunter and held the horns in my hand after it was sealed.

 

[adventure907]

I can appreciate why this ram shouldn't be shot for age, too close, etc. - all the reasons stated above. But based on ADFG (side profile and slightly below), I think an argument could be made that it meets the full circle test or at least gets within a tenth of inch of being legal. Its a pass for me because its too close but I would love to know the history behind the ram and whether it passed or not - maybe someone knows?

View attachment 507663

View attachment 507662

While very close, I don't believe this 3d model allows you to view the horns at the proper angle to apply the circle test. My understanding is that it should be viewed from an angle that allows the outside edge of the horn to make a perfect 360 degree circle. As you can see in your second picture, the outer edge of the horn near the tip is outside your superimposed 360 degree circle, therefore this angle is not the proper one to apply the circle test.

The exact verbiage from the ADFG Dall Sheep Identification guide is: "In the Perfect Circle Test, the sheep head is viewed from the side at such an angle that the outer surface of the horn creates a circle. If the horn tip reaches the horn base, then the sheep passes this test and is legal."

Just my thoughts, I find these threads great to share knowledge and others ideas on the judging of sheep. It can only make us better sheep hunters in the end.

 

[smg]

While very close, I don't believe this 3d model allows you to view the horns at the proper angle to apply the circle test. My understanding is that it should be viewed from an angle that allows the outside edge of the horn to make a perfect 360 degree circle. As you can see in your second picture, the outer edge of the horn near the tip is outside your superimposed 360 degree circle, therefore this angle is not the proper one to apply the circle test.

The exact verbiage from the ADFG Dall Sheep Identification guide is: "In the Perfect Circle Test, the sheep head is viewed from the side at such an angle that the outer surface of the horn creates a circle. If the horn tip reaches the horn base, then the sheep passes this test and is legal."

Just my thoughts, I find these threads great to share knowledge and others ideas on the judging of sheep. It can only make us better sheep hunters in the end.

I couldn't agree more - I'm super appreciative of the author starting this thread.

 

[wantj43]

Does ADFG use software in determining full curl when hunters bring rams in for sealing? I know of a six year old ram that was shot in 2022 that was close to the one presented here. The ram was concluded as legal - one ADFG rep felt it was full curl while another did not believe it was full curl and the tie breaker went to the third rep who sided in favor of the hunter as passing the full circle test. I spoke to the hunter and held the horns in my hand after it was sealed.

Software is sometimes used to better determine the degree of curl. Advances in LiDAR technology have certainly streamlined and enhanced the feasibility of using software to determine actual degrees of curl.
There is a lot of effort towards developing materials to help hunters better judge sheep and more accurately determine actual degrees of curl.

 

[Homer]

Software is sometimes used to better determine the degree of curl. Advances in LiDAR technology have certainly streamlined and enhanced the feasibility of using software to determine actual degrees of curl.
There is a lot of effort towards developing materials to help hunters better judge sheep and more accurately determine actual degrees of curl.

If software has to be used to determine if a sheep is legal there is no way a hunter in the field was able to make the call that it was past full curl. We need to stop shooting marginal sheep.

 

[Mojave]

I can appreciate why this ram shouldn't be shot for age, too close, etc. - all the reasons stated above. But based on ADFG (side profile and slightly below), I think an argument could be made that it meets the full circle test or at least gets within a tenth of inch of being legal. Its a pass for me because its too close but I would love to know the history behind the ram and whether it passed or not - maybe someone knows?

View attachment 507663

View attachment 507662

Elipse not full curl. He will not be legal

 

[wantj43]

Appreciate everyone’s participation.