Layering question from an FNG

[Bjonesy]

Planning my first elk hunt for 1st or 2nd rifle season next year in CO. I’m slowly acquiring the gear and clothing needed for the trip. Here is what I currently have.

Base: synthetic and merino
Mid/active: ambient hoody
Bottoms: axis hybrid and timberline
Wind/2nd mid: axis hybrid vest (next planned purchase)

Here’s what I need.

Puffy: thinking grumman (prefer down as will only be used for glassing)
Rain gear: have not narrowed it down

So my question is, should I size rain gear to fit over puffy layer or size it the same as puffy layer and not plan to wear both at the same time? I’m aware of the draw backs associated with down and wet weather so I was thinking a lean to “tarp” shelter for glassing in heavy rain. Would this negate the need to wear a puffy and rain jacket together? Also considering the chances of rain becoming snow if I go 2nd season, would that change my approach to this situation? TIA

 

[hereinaz]

Size rain gear to fit over puffy, imo. I have worn tshirt in 3’ season. Depends on location some.

I have glassed in snow but never rain… I get out of the rain.

 

[ccoffey]

You’re gonna want whatever rain gear you get to go over your puffy if it is raining. If you get rain blowing in sideways under the tarp, your down is gonna get soaked pretty quick. I have a hate hate relationship with rain pants. My advice to you is to purchase the cheap Outdoor Research rain pants and cram them deep into the bottom of your pack. I’ve wasted so much money on rain pants that never get used.

The only other thing I’d say about preparing for rain is to make sure your bino harness doesn’t get soaked. Had a terrible experience this year and my binos fogged up every time I pulled them out for 5 days.

 

[rafiki]

For SG items i have a large M5 jacket that pairs w/ a medium grumman. the large grumman felt too baggy.
personally, i'd have a rain jacket even with a tarp since you might need to be on the move while raining.

 

[Ron.C]

another vote for sizing rain gear to fit over puffy. Way more versatile then having to rely on a tarp that will probably get used less than your rain jacket, especially hunting an animal like elk where you wil most likely be on the move allot.

I also agree with ccoffee. I don't spend much on rain pants. I either carry a cheap shell type pant that weighs little and compresses to nothing or my HH impertechs if I think I will be transitting choked up wet slides (common here in BC probably not so in CO) over multiple days.

keep in mind, clothing and layering is very subjective person to person and there are allot of non hunting brands out there that will work just as well. I use several items like an eddy bauer puffy that are quite inexpensive compared to some of the top hunting clothing manufacturers and do the job very well when day/backpack hunting at a fraction of the cost.

Suggestions from others are always a good starting point but trial and error is the only way to find out what will work best for you. Good luck on your elk hunt

 

[Bjonesy]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Definitely some points in there I did not consider.

 

[Bearsears]

I agree with sizing your rain jacket to fit over puffy. You are most likely going to be dealing with snow out here instead of rain especially if you go 2nd season. Id invest in some quality gaiters and get a super cheap pair of rain pants. Mostly your feet and legs get wet from trudging through snow or brush and that moisture wicks down into your boots to make you miserable, gaiters fix this problem. Usually in those seasons, I rarely need rain pants. Especially wearing the pants you commented on above. Those pants have some waterproof panels already and they dry pretty dang fast.

As far as puffies a Grumman is a great choice. There are also a ton of great options in solids from non hunting brands to be had for a lot cheaper. Even a Sitka Kelvin lite down can usually be found for cheap in a random solid color The Grumman has 5.3oz of 850fill down in it. If you find a puffy on say Steepandcheap.com with similar specs, it will perform about the same.

I'd ditch your choice for wind layer in the axis hybrid vest. Its most likely going to be too much insulation for you when moving. Look for a lightweight wind shirt that breaths decent and wear it under your ambient. This will be a more flexible system, much lighter weight, more packable, and has less chance of overheating you. Your puffy should take care of all the insulation needs you have when sitting and glassing.

 

[Bjonesy]

I agree with sizing your rain jacket to fit over puffy. You are most likely going to be dealing with snow out here instead of rain especially if you go 2nd season. Id invest in some quality gaiters and get a super cheap pair of rain pants. Mostly your feet and legs get wet from trudging through snow or brush and that moisture wicks down into your boots to make you miserable, gaiters fix this problem. Usually in those seasons, I rarely need rain pants. Especially wearing the pants you commented on above. Those pants have some waterproof panels already and they dry pretty dang fast.

As far as puffies a Grumman is a great choice. There are also a ton of great options in solids from non hunting brands to be had for a lot cheaper. Even a Sitka Kelvin lite down can usually be found for cheap in a random solid color The Grumman has 5.3oz of 850fill down in it. If you find a puffy on say Steepandcheap.com with similar specs, it will perform about the same.

I'd ditch your choice for wind layer in the axis hybrid vest. Its most likely going to be too much insulation for you when moving. Look for a lightweight wind shirt that breaths decent and wear it under your ambient. This will be a more flexible system, much lighter weight, more packable, and has less chance of overheating you. Your puffy should take care of all the insulation needs you have when sitting and glassing.

Definitely getting a pair of gaiters. I failed to mention that in the original post. I guess my train of thought was that the axis vest would provide a minimal amount of water repellency if it rains while hiking. So if I was to eliminate the vest from the list and I get caught in rain while active, would I wear the oversized rain jacket? I’m assuming the ambient is somewhat lacking in the water resistant department.

 

[Bearsears]

Definitely getting a pair of gaiters. I failed to mention that in the original post. I guess my train of thought was that the axis vest would provide a minimal amount of water repellency if it rains while hiking. So if I was to eliminate the vest from the list and I get caught in rain while active, would I wear the oversized rain jacket? I’m assuming the ambient is somewhat lacking in the water resistant department.

It depends on how hard its raining and/or what wind layer you go with. If its just spitting rain or lightly raining, you could get away just fine with a light goretex windstopper hoody for example. Do some research on wind layers. John Barklow has done a ton of podcasts and videos talking about them. I and others have written a ton about them on here too if you search for it.

Also I don't think you need to plan on getting a rain jacket that is drastically oversized, if it fits a little tight over your puffy thats ok as long as it isnt really compressing the down a ton. For example most my stuff is Sitka and my rain jacket is the same size as my puffy. The rain jacket is already cut larger than my other layers so it doesnt really compress my puffy too much. You could buy your puffy and then go try some different rain jackets and see what fits best.

I also forgot to mention in my last post but a lightweight small tarp with a few stakes and cordage is never a bad idea no matter the season or what clothing system you have.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Yeah the ambient will wet out pretty quickly, it does have some minor water repellency but not much.

The rain jacket can also serve as a wind jacket if you want, so think of ways to cross off two with one item. Not saying a rain jacket should be used for busting brush or anything, so just be aware of some options.

I would also second a cheaper pair of rain pants. Wet is one of the few things that hurts you as bad as cold. Staying dry is a must when in the wild, so be prepared for wetness protection as much as thermal protection.

 

[Bearsears]

Yeah the ambient will wet out pretty quickly, it does have some minor water repellency but not much.

The rain jacket can also serve as a wind jacket if you want, so think of ways to cross off two with one item. Not saying a rain jacket should be used for busting brush or anything, so just be aware of some options.

I would also second a cheaper pair of rain pants. Wet is one of the few things that hurts you as bad as cold. Staying dry is a must when in the wild, so be prepared for wetness protection as much as thermal protection.

Respectfully I disagree. A rain jacket will absolutely block wind and can be used that way. It is in no way as versatile as a wind shirt though. You will sweat out a rain jacket trying to hike in it in most conditions whereas a light wind shirt worn next to a base layer will breath and you can wear it almost all day hiking. Rain jackets in my opinion are for just that heavy rain and snow. Wind layers are for everything else and they can be had for such a small weight and size it makes zero sense to me to not use them. I used to be on the Ill just use my rain jacket train until I tried a wind layer and never looked back.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

^^^ i do not disagree with anything you said. I should have said the rain jacket can be used moreso when static/glassing. I would not want to use it for busting brush or anything that could damage it, ruin its purpose. If moving, is a wind shirt vital ? Up to the person using it and how cold it is. But static, a rain jacket is a great wind blocker.

So i totally agree with what you wrote above!

 

[Bjonesy]

[ John Barklow has done a ton of podcasts and videos talking about them. I and others have written a ton about them on here too if you search for it.

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[Bjonesy]

*Sorry still figuring out the mobile version*

Thanks for this advice above. I will definitely look into what he has to say on the subject. And thanks to everyone for helping to steer this newbie in the right direction.

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