Late season back country hunt

[SuspiciousFish]

Have you ever not been able to put your coat on because the arms are frozen? Ever worn frozen boots? What's your plan for water?

I've hunted in sub zero quite a little bit and I will say, that's what a wood stove is for.

What you're considering is 100% doable, but the questions I asked are simple issues that happen to me every time it's single digits or below.

I'd strongly reconsider your season or your tent choice.....or be able to have a vehicle to warm up in. 25mph wind when its 20 or less will suck the happiness out of you.

Oh man, this reminds me of my days in Boy Scouts having to stab the top of my nalgene in the morning to break the layer of ice to get some water. Tying frozen boot laces in the cold morning is hell too.

I agree with this 100%. Having a vehicle to warm up in is going to be a huge factor to keep you guys going. When you are backpacking there is no lifeline or fallback to warm up. 5 days of that will take a massive toll on you. Even small things like drying your socks on the dash vent pays off big time if things get wet etc.

 

[rayporter]

good advice given

you already have way more advice than i had on my first trip -10 miles in, no heat either.

that last weather report is golden.

 

[woods89]

You gotten some good advice already from people way more qualified than I.

I'd suggest learning winter camping before tying it to hunting. 1 nighters by the truck are a good way to start. It's also true that in cold conditions sometimes you are just a more efficient hunter by not packing in, and having some more comfortable accommodations back at the vehicle. Everything gets harder in really cold weather.

 

[RadDad]

I get that there's a steep learning curve but I also know the best way to learn is often to get hands on. We will make safety a priority and then just try to endure whatever sucky conditions we encounter as we learn the country and hopefully tag out. I would love to get there months ahead of time to scout and get a feel for the area but it's a 2 day drive there and vacation time is limited.

You’ve got the right mindset. Get out there and have some fun. Hopefully one of your future posts is a picture with you and your tag filled.

- RadDad

 

[Neckbone]

Sounds like you don't have a specific plan/hunt/dates in mind.. with that said, why start with a late season hunt? There are plenty of opportunities to get out in September and October and hunt. Granted it could be plenty cold during those times....but likely not as bad as a November/December hunt.

I would get your entire backpacking kit together and do overnighters. Plenty of places in Fla to strike out. Get comfortable and fluent with your gear so you can set up camp easily and effortlessly. You should be able to be a proficient backpacker by the time you get out there...just add more layers when it gets cold...and maybe train some stairs/bridges for the ups

Where in Fla are you? Im in Daytona Beach area

 

[Steelhead]

I would echo Mtwarden's advice. Hot tents are awesome for hanging out, getting up and sitting out a storm, but when it comes to sleeping, once someone stops feeding that stove that heat is completely gone in about 3 minutes. Very different than cast iron etc. Lighting it back up in the morning, in 4 degree temps is something you should prepare for. My fingers don't work too well for too long in those conditions. Prepare to make it easy to light a fire when you are not freezing or wiped out. Maintain firewood and kindling all the time.
For clothes and sleeping stuff, think *bombproof* and lean toward overkill. Knowing you have enough layers is a great confidence builder when the snow just won't stop or the freezing rain kicks in or your suddenly in whiteout conditions.
...on that note, have a bailout plan. Being 10 miles from your truck makes things very real when the weather gets gnarly and doesn't look like its going to let up. and make sure the spot you park the truck in is exit-able. Where I hunt snow and wind tend to knock down dead trees which fall on the roads. Like, lots of them.
And then there's hiking in snow, or crusty snow. Sucks worse than the normal suck.
Another vote for car-camping, or nearby in a tent, with day trips and seeing how that fits you.

 

[feanor]

Agreed- or just run up to Georgia or the coldest closest place you can get to and do a couple nights. If you are miserable, think about your setup more. If you can do it easily, you might be ok. Real world experience is the best thing you can do right now.

 

[Bubblehide]

I've done numerous backcountry backpack hunts, one in particular is a late season hunt. I did it solo several years, then invited a friend to join me. At this point in time, I did not have a hot tent. We spent 7 days back in there, 6 of which the daytime high never got close to above freezing. About midweek we had 2' of snow on the ground. The wind was so bad, we didn't feel it was safe to cook in the tent, in short 40mph constant with 60+ mph gusts. By the way, the weather forcast was not calling for such weather, but the air came screaming out of the artic down into the Sierra Nevada anyway.

We slept like crap because we never felt warm, and that kind of cold wakes you up, on and off, all night long. The hunting was fantastic. But moving through 2 feet of snow and drifts much deeper, doesn't allow you to cover much country.

By the end of the 7 days, we both lost 30+ pounds each. We were barely surviving. Needless to say, that was my last late season trip without a hot tent.

In short, you might get a mild weather late season hunt (you will still wish you had heat) that poses minimal risks. But if you do get weather, it could cost you more than some missery.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

As I look at hot tents a bit, what are important factors?

Size for sure. There will likely be a pole and stove/pipe right in the middle so if you undersize it you and your partners will be really cramped with a higher risk of accidentally melting or burning clothing and gear.

Weight is always a consideration, but you can usually split up gear amongst yourselves to make it more manageable.

 

[NorthIDHunter]

Some folks have a misconception of a hot tent, thinking it will keep you warm all night- it won't (unless someone volunteers to stay up ALL night feeding the firebox! ).

What it will do is give you a comfortable place to eat supper/breakfast. More importantly it will let you dry some clothing out- if you're hunting in snow, your clothing will get wet- period. It will also allow for easier water warming and snow melting.

If you're expecting 0 degree weather, then bring a 0 degree bag (and appropriate pad)- the hot tent should not influence what sleep system you bring- the weather should.

4 degree weather is winter camping and I would avoid any advice saying just do it. Being in the backcountry in that kind of weather takes more than good gear, you need hands on experience in dealing with that weather.

If you want to dip your toes in- great, but have a solid backup plan- ie a vehicle/camp relatively close by if you need to retreat.

@J.flanagan with you being a WKR I suspect you know better than to overlook what @mtwarden is saying here. From what I have read on Rokslide there doesn't seem to be very many people who have the kind of knowledge and first had experience as he does. I don't have his level of experience but have been in some pretty brutal conditions, temps you are referring to with gear that is designed specifically for the conditions and it is still very very cold, add to it the level of exertion that hunting is going to require which means having to manage sweat, and things are going to be even more difficult. Those are the kind of temps that in an emergency you likely have minutes rather than hours to get something figured out.

 

[mtwarden]

As I look at hot tents a bit, what are important factors?

As mentioned above, the first thing to consider is size- a good rule of thumb is with a stove you can halve the number of occupants- ie a 4 man tent becomes a 2 man with stove. If you need to err, err on the side of going larger.

There are some pretty budget hot tents out there, but would consider getting a good one from the start- Seek Outside and Kifaru come to mind.

Size the stove to the chosen shelter- you don't need a lot of stove, but you do need enough

While there are different shelters that can be adapted to a stove, a pyramid design is usually what most go with.

A hot stove shelter is pretty easy to divvy the weight evenly- shelter, pole(s), stakes, stove, etc can easily be divided

 

[Newelkhntr1967]

Along with the poster, I would like to know if there are any "middle ground" hot tents, price-wise......say between the cost of a Seek Outside and a Luxe, that are good options for the budget minded. I am planning a 2nd or 3rd rifle otc hunt in Colorado myself with my son and friend.

 

[mtwarden]

if you know someone that can sew (and has an adequate sewing machine) you can often pick up a good pyramid tent from Black Diamond, MSR, etc for a good price and then pick up a BearPaw stove jack and have it sewn in

obviously weigh all associated costs to insure it is a bargain

 

[mitchellmountain]

You are likely to be miserable and unprepared. Lonely, long nights in separate tents. No experience.

I would truck camp this, not backpack in until you get some experience. Spike out for 1-2 nights here and there to test gear. But don't start later seasons.

Start in September. Which will feel like late season to you, especially if you hit weather.

All of this except I might disagree with the September part, late season is fine but I wouldn't go with the intention of staying bout for 5 days. Get your feet wet, try it out but going full bore on your first trip might prove to be too much. You might be very capable and physically and mentally tough but the long nights and constant cold can be a little too much on your first foray into the wilderness.

 

[Newelkhntr1967]

Thanks mtwarden. We have also talked about splitting costs for seek outside combo and sell it when we are done to recoup some of our money. I had renal cell cancer, and found out it came back just a few short months ago.....trying to plan my dream trip in case thing turn out for the worse.

Do you recommend the inner liner for condensation, or will the stove keep that at bay?

 

[rayporter]

dont forget snow load!! many tents will collapse with a few inches of wet snow. it happened to me on my first trip.

 

[SoloWilderness]

I would echo Mtwarden's advice. Hot tents are awesome for hanging out, getting up and sitting out a storm, but when it comes to sleeping, once someone stops feeding that stove that heat is completely gone in about 3 minutes. Very different than cast iron etc. Lighting it back up in the morning, in 4 degree temps is something you should prepare for. My fingers don't work too well for too long in those conditions. Prepare to make it easy to light a fire when you are not freezing or wiped out. Maintain firewood and kindling all the time.
For clothes and sleeping stuff, think *bombproof* and lean toward overkill. Knowing you have enough layers is a great confidence builder when the snow just won't stop or the freezing rain kicks in or your suddenly in whiteout conditions.
...on that note, have a bailout plan. Being 10 miles from your truck makes things very real when the weather gets gnarly and doesn't look like its going to let up. and make sure the spot you park the truck in is exit-able. Where I hunt snow and wind tend to knock down dead trees which fall on the roads. Like, lots of them.
And then there's hiking in snow, or crusty snow. Sucks worse than the normal suck.
Another vote for car-camping, or nearby in a tent, with day trips and seeing how that fits you.

Some good points here about cold fingers in the morning, another thing to be aware of is how poorly a frozen bic lighter works when it's time to light the fire in the morning. Electronics too, batteries die quickly, so keep gps, etc in a warm place. Keep your lighter inside your bag, and have the stove prepped so all you have to do is put a handful of wood in, light a pyro putty or other firestarter packet, and stick it in the stove. Do this from inside your bag. Get your top half-dressed while you boil water and get the stove going, get a hot drink in your hands and body quickly, tea, coffee, hot tang, whatever. Just holding a warm mug does wonders for your motivation, then you can get out of your bag and get your bottom half on once the tent is warm, and food is cooking. Makes for a much higher motivation level for getting up and out when it's dark and cold. Also, I would recommend a set of down/ puffy camp boots with a cordura sole. Makes walking out to pee at 3am much more pleasant.

 

[Bubblehide]

Boil water before hitting the sack. Fill your Nalgene bottle(s) with that hot water and put them in your sleeping bag for added warmth. You'll want a bag with a little extra room, as you don't want the hot bottles touching you.

 

[taskswap]

Hot tents are plush but most of those tiny stoves... you have to feed them every 2 hours. Everybody is different but I'm not a huge fan of "if there's a system failure I'm going to freeze" setups. If you want the alternative you can get a lot of mileage out of a REALLY good sleeping pad, a decent down bag (doesn't need to cost $800) and a 2GoSystems insulated bivvy. That's basically a mylar thermal blanket but woven so it doesn't crinkle while you sleep, it adds 20 degrees of comfort to almost any system.

And then the magic sauce. If you're only going for a few days to a week... just load up on BodyWarmers. You only need 2-3 of them per night - one at your feet, one around your torso, and maybe a third by your hips. Two packs of them is still way lighter than even the most minimal stove setup and you don't need to deal with fuel and stoking fires all night.

I know my way isn't for everyone, but for a once-a-year setup for 5-7 days this is totally what I do...

 

[mtwarden]

Thanks mtwarden. We have also talked about splitting costs for seek outside combo and sell it when we are done to recoup some of our money. I had renal cell cancer, and found out it came back just a few short months ago.....trying to plan my dream trip in case thing turn out for the worse.

Do you recommend the inner liner for condensation, or will the stove keep that at bay?

No need for a liner in later season in my experience