Late season back country hunt

[J.flanagan]

I'm moderately familiar with hiking and car camping but have never backpack camped. My brother and I are looking to do some outwest hunting in the next couple years and we intend to backpack for a 5 day hunt(give or take) I was watching the weather this past fall in the area we are thinking and during the week we are planning for. Over the course of the week it dropped to about 4°F and had 15 to 25 mph wind.

We don't plant to use a hot tent, just some single or double person 4 season tents. Is that doable with good bags, pads, and clothes? I'm from Florida so anything below 50 seems pretty cold to me. What special considerations need to be taken when Temps are that far below freezing? I know water will freeze, including anything you have stored or are filtering.

Is it a bad idea without a hot tent?

 

[Hansoman]

Mind over matter… little suffering is good for the soul. Get good gear and go for it!

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Without prior backpacking experience this might be a tough undertaking for you. Winter camping alone can be a really challenging experience, adding the hunting aspect to it even more so. Not that you can't do it, but it will require high quality gear for safety and comfort, good basic knowledge of winter camping, good physical condition and mental state as well. The hot tent would be nice to warm up from time to time but is not as necessary as proper clothing, boots, shelter, sleeping bag, etc. I would highly recommend a few summertime or early fall backpack trips before jumping headfirst into winter backcountry conditions while on a hunt.

 

[huntnful]

I would say that you're going to want a hot tent for a 5 day hunt in those conditions. It will mentally drain you to never actually be warm. It's totally doable don't get me wrong. But that will be one miserable first hunt in the backcountry. The days are short, and the cold nights are extremely long. Especially if you've never been in those conditions. That's COLD.

 

[hiker270]

Its been awhile but I have tent camped at below zero and it's doable with a regular tent. A really good sleeping bag and ground pad can make a big difference. That being said the weather in the mountains is a fickle thing, Next year it may be 70 degrees.

 

[hh76]

I've never really camped much in the winter without a hot tent. What I know about having a stove, is that it gives you something to do and some comfort in the long, dark evenings.

 

[strousek]

Water is key in any situation. All springs, creeks and ponds will be frozen over in those temps. You aren't packing in enough water for multiple days so you will need a water source to use frequently. If there is a good snow base that year you can melt from that however snow in CO in the fall is hit and miss. I have done archery hunts in September with a foot of snow and other years hunted elk in December without any snow to be found. Not sure what dates you are looking at but remember that western game migrate with the changing seasons. There can be a valley full of deer and elk at the end of August and completely empty by the first week of October.

 

[nphunter]

A good sleeping bag, sleep with your base layers or even outer layers on. I would prefer a hot tent if I knew it was going to be that cold going in, especially if it was snowing or snow-covered. An insulated pad makes a huge difference. Having a campfire and putting a large hot/warm rock in the bottom of your sleeping bag will make a huge difference as well, it will keep you warm most of the night.

I've done several nights with just my single-man tent in 0-10 deg F and high winds but it wasn't fun, the wind kept me up worse than the cold. Other things to consider in those low temps are water and how to keep it thawed out enough to dring, the hose on my bladder is frozen solid in about 30 minutes of walking in those temps. If you keep drinking it's fine but when you stop it freezes.

I personally would rather hunt during better weather, when it's that cold I will either, take my wall tent, take my hot tent, stay in a motel or camp trailer. Another thing to consider when backpacking in the late season is that nights are looooong!! From Mid Nov-Dec you only have about 10hrs of daylight so plan on being in your camp/sleeping bag for 14hrs a day, this is not fun at all. Also late season most animals are headed or on winter range so there isn't a lot of backcountry hunting to be had fpr the most part.

Personally, I'd rather spend my time walking back to a nice warm camp in the dark than sitting in a cold dark tent.

 

[NikTheHick]

This is going to be a real system shock, coming from Florida. I would recommend a hot tent if 50 degrees truly feels cold to you. Try spending a weekend up in Georgia, those north GA mountains can get legit cold in the winter months. That will give you an idea of how much you can handle.

 

[J.flanagan]

All good info, thanks guys. I'm going to try to get a backpack trip or two in before the real thing. I can deal with cold weather. The reason 50° is cold is because we don't dress for winter here. At least I don't. Shorts and a fleece jacket because by noon it's 80.

Thr length of the nights/days I hadn't thought of. I guess I should bring a small lantern and a deck or cards or something.

 

[Wrench]

Have you ever not been able to put your coat on because the arms are frozen? Ever worn frozen boots? What's your plan for water?

I've hunted in sub zero quite a little bit and I will say, that's what a wood stove is for.

What you're considering is 100% doable, but the questions I asked are simple issues that happen to me every time it's single digits or below.

I'd strongly reconsider your season or your tent choice.....or be able to have a vehicle to warm up in. 25mph wind when its 20 or less will suck the happiness out of you.

 

[RadDad]

I’m not saying anything new here, but you should reconsider your setup. Packing in to temps you mentioned is absolutely brutal. You can’t defrost/dry your gear, warm up at night, or have the safety of a car to get you out of a tight spot. Plus, there really is something to be said about the morale boost a warm tent can bring during a week-long hunt. I don’t want to talk you out of it, but really want to express how rugged and unforgiving the west can be.

You didn’t mention clothing either. Enough cannot be said about layering with packable and breathable clothes. Believe it or not, you will sweat hiking up even a minor grade to your glassing spot. If you don’t have the right layers, you’ll freeze your butt off trying to glass which means you aren’t focused on the mission at hand.

You can totally do this trip! Just make sure you heed the advice from some of the veterans on this forum.

-RadDad

 

[J.flanagan]

You didn’t mention clothing either. Enough cannot be said about layering with packable and breathable clothes. Believe it or not, you will sweat hiking up even a minor grade to your glassing spot. If you don’t have the right layers, you’ll freeze your butt off trying to glass which means you aren’t focused on the mission at hand.

I did mention clothes but in the same breath as bag and pad. I think I've got the layering figured out. A light weight synthetic top and bottom, a medium weight merino top and bottom, a fleece top, a light wind stopping top, a soft shell top and bottom, and a puffy top and bottom. All of it good quality, will mix and match as needed.

 

[ladogg411]

You are likely to be miserable and unprepared. Lonely, long nights in separate tents. No experience.

I would truck camp this, not backpack in until you get some experience. Spike out for 1-2 nights here and there to test gear. But don't start later seasons.

Start in September. Which will feel like late season to you, especially if you hit weather.

 

[RadDad]

I did mention clothes but in the same breath as bag and pad. I think I've got the layering figured out. A light weight synthetic top and bottom, a medium weight merino top and bottom, a fleece top, a light wind stopping top, a soft shell top and bottom, and a puffy top and bottom. All of it good quality, will mix and match as needed.

Nice! Good setup. I’d only mention that thunderstorms come in fast on the mountain. Maybe want to have a packable rain layer available to keep from getting soaked. You could even swap out the Softshell for that if you’re looking to save ounces.

- RadDad

 

[mtwarden]

Some folks have a misconception of a hot tent, thinking it will keep you warm all night- it won't (unless someone volunteers to stay up ALL night feeding the firebox! ).

What it will do is give you a comfortable place to eat supper/breakfast. More importantly it will let you dry some clothing out- if you're hunting in snow, your clothing will get wet- period. It will also allow for easier water warming and snow melting.

If you're expecting 0 degree weather, then bring a 0 degree bag (and appropriate pad)- the hot tent should not influence what sleep system you bring- the weather should.

4 degree weather is winter camping and I would avoid any advice saying just do it. Being in the backcountry in that kind of weather takes more than good gear, you need hands on experience in dealing with that weather.

If you want to dip your toes in- great, but have a solid backup plan- ie a vehicle/camp relatively close by if you need to retreat.

 

[t_carlson]

First cold weather backpack hunt combined with your first western hunt is going to be a real steep learning curve.

Regardless of experience, IMO, backpack hunts should be TARGETED to an area you know or strongly suspect there will be game.

Nothing worse than devoting several hours of hiking and an overnight or two to a bad area. For your first trip to an area, I strongly suggest a centrally located truck camp so that you have the ability to move around looking for animals. Especially for your first trip since you don’t really know what you’re looking for.

Another thing that I think a lot of people don’t plan for is their limited capacity to recover. You’re only going to have the energy to backpack into 2, maybe 3 locations over the course of a week unless you are in absolutely SUPERB physical shape. Remember, you still have to be able to hunt effectively when you get in there.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Frozen boots are no joke. I have been winter camping my entire life, and I can tell you, that I have put myself into life threatening situations multiple times in these later seasons when I was younger, and not prepared for the reality of how nasty it can be. 4 degrees turns into -20 below real quick when you are soaked from sweating hard all day, your sleeping bag is wet from condensation and climbing into it in damp clothes and you have no place to dry out your soaked, frozen boots. You may not even be able to get them on your feet, which really sucks when you are stuck in a small tent and the only way to warm up is to get out and build a fire, which won't warm you much.

After getting 18" of snow on the opening day of 1st rifle 2 years ago, and a foot of snow on the hike in for archery 3 years ago... at least 1 hot tent in camp would be a wise move. You might be able to rent one if buying one for the group isn't an option. If you have a good group you hunt with, have everyone pitch in a couple hundred $$ and pick up a 6-8 man tipi and stove. One of you can always buy the others out in the future. You will enjoy your trip much more, and be able to hunt more effectively, instead of worrying about not freezing to death constantly. Bring a small folding saw like a Sven Saw to cut wood. Trying to gather and break off chunks of wood to build a fire while you are frozen and cold is brutal. Plan ahead for campfires. Get to camp and build a huge stack of dry wood under a sheltering tree and cover it with a tarp to keep it dry. Keep in mind pine burns extremely fast and won't last as long as you think it will. Also bring a good stash of firestarters for camp - egg cartons with dryer lint soaked in parafin work great, so does Pyroputty, I always keep a tin of it with waterproof matches, a lighter, and a piece of sandpaper for striking the matches in my jacket pocket.

Winter back country hunting is an adventure in its own right, with good, appropriate gear. It can be awesome, but also has a high degree of suffering, and higher risks involved. Testing out your gear on a controlled front country hunt, where you can bail to a warm vehicle as a safety valve would be wise before you commit to a deep back country hunt in the winter. Think about considerations such as getting snowed into your camp or needing to wait out a storm for days. Carry multiple means of fire starting, a good emergency blanket, and backup dry socks, gloves and a hat in vac sealed or double bags everywhere you go. Also, I would recommend watching some videos on dynamic re-warming drills and treat the winter survival aspect of it as an important research topic on par with researching the animals and hunting area.

You can have a lot of fun on hunts like this, and learn alot about your limits, but make sure to approach it with eyes wide open, and understand you are choosing a situation which carries elevated levels of risk on many fronts.

 

[J.flanagan]

I really appreciate all the input. I have my tent already but my brother is in the market for one now. I might try to get him to split a hot tent with me to use as his own. I understand a hot tent doesn't mean warm sleeping conditions, just a warm place to eat and a way to dry gear. I can imagine froze boots would suck.

The area that we intend to start off at is only about a 1.5 mile easy hike away from our parking area. Worst case scenario, we could always just base out of a truck camp. As we continue to e scout we might try to pick an area that we can just work out of the parking area for a few days.

I get that there's a steep learning curve but I also know the best way to learn is often to get hands on. We will make safety a priority and then just try to endure whatever sucky conditions we encounter as we learn the country and hopefully tag out. I would love to get there months ahead of time to scout and get a feel for the area but it's a 2 day drive there and vacation time is limited.

That being said, hopefully we can get a couple nights in GA under our belt for some chilly camping practice.

 

[J.flanagan]

As I look at hot tents a bit, what are important factors?