Late onset agriculture

[gbflyer]

I grew up on a family farm. 4th generation. We pulled the pin and moved to Alaska when gen 5 was born. Mostly produce, up to 1200 acres at one time, huge input costs, high risk / high reward. When my mom and dad were running the show when I was a kid, we had exactly 2 years where we made money. They survived the Carter years and had a 21% note on some land, some was rented and some was family. I honestly have no idea how they do it today the way banking is. We had some excellent and very creative bankers over the years. The area has a couple real farmers left and a dairy, the rest has become ranchettes and horsey farms.

If you aren’t borrowing money and real estate values don’t crash you’ll be fine. Productive farmland is very valuable and with Bill Gates’ of the world buying it all up I don’t see why this should change.

I would very much take the advice above about haying. It’s good money and input costs are minimal. As long as you control the bugs and fertilizer, about the only thing to really go wrong is a rain at the wrong time. Where I lived you could get 5 years before you had to rotate it out. You can have someone custom harvest it to start with if you don’t have the gear. Do it somewhere that gets at least 3 cuttings a year. The “idiot cubes” small bales(classic, I love it) is the way. Plus the smell of a hay field when the irrigation water hits it is something you could be a go-zillionaire with if you could bottle and sell it. Nothing like it in the world.

 

[three5x5s]

plan your crops for each season. Crops are weather dependent, even when you do everything right you may not have a good crop. If your farm is not to rural look in to petting zoo. Goats, sheep, ducks, shell corn pit, corn maze. Its all year round, bring in school field trips, events for kids. Then sell honey and the fresh veg. of the season. The one around here sell mums and flowers to.

 

[robtattoo]

Pasture board horses.
It'll cost you in initial fencing & water/feed hardware, but that investment soon pays off.

We have a tiny 16 acre place, with the house & primary business (boarding kennel) on it.
We spent 10 years having the remaining pastures cut for hay & by year 9, it was costing more to have cut than we could sell it for.

Obviously on such a small acreage we only have a tiny carrying capacity (5 horses & a mini donkey currently. We could do more, but I'd rather preserve the grass) but at $200/month each, it's a pretty profitable & lucrative sideline. We provide hay as needed, water & security & that's pretty much it.

Initial outlay for fencing, gates/posts, troughs, roundpen & plumbing was around 8k & we've been at my self imposed capacity since pretty much day 1. We were in the black by the end of the first year & almost everything since has been profit.

It's a very low input, low maintenance, very rewarding, sideline. You do kinda need at least a passing interest in horses though.

Obviously, prices will be dependent on your location.

 

[bowkill]

It sounds like you're in about the same boat as me. I grew up with mostly cattle and some farming, mainly to support the cattle. I left for a few years, then had the opportunity to purchase a small farm. I had retained some cattle from before and moved them to my current farm.
My wife makes good money at her job and that allows me the freedom to be a "farmer". I work about 3-4 months per year at an ag-based job, which also gives me some flexibility for running home during calving and such. My wife didn't come from an ag background, but I think I would have a real hard time getting her to move back to town now. She has chickens and a couple good sized gardens that she cans as much food off of as we currently have space to store.
I do this not because I am chasing the "million". I do this because it's what I love doing. If you are being realistic, there are limited ways to truly make a profit off a property like this without involving a revolving door of people coming to your property; such as wedding venues, petting zoos, "dude ranch" type things, veggie/berry picking, etc.
In my opinion, you really have to think about it and decide how important it is to worry about profits and how much you just want to live the "lifestyle". There will always be something to fix, something to upgrade, some kind of maintenance that has to be done. Always something sucking that profit away from you. I'm sure a lot of you don't understand it, but I enjoy getting up everyday and going to "work".

 

[HighUintas]

Are there any guys on here with experience or knowledge of small scale ag being a little more profitable by working the agritourism market?

When thinking about how I could possibly have even the remotest chance of making a small buffler operation work, my wife leans into the agritourism angle. Have your property set up to rent out small cabins and the visitors get to pay for the stay and experience. Take them out to see the buffalo, they can have the opportunity to help with some of the other farming duties if they want (get their hands dirty), have dinners or something using only items grown on the property. It would be a bit of a B&B/farm/ranch that I'm sure some people would pay a premium for. I'm sure the presence of the buffalo would make it much more marketable.

 

[schmalzy]

I like the lumber side hustle
I’m a terrible wood worker but I can cut and split


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Was going to suggest learning a trade if working with your hands is really what your after. Get some HVAC credentials or plumbing experience and you’ll be able to work as much as you want in just about any area. Plenty of options to scale it OR keep it small.

Being just a solid handy man would probably keep you busy as well.


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[Ranger 692]

I wouldn’t want all those people on my land. Or any of them come to think about it. Lotta nut jobs out there anymore.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Anyone ever quit the 9-5 workforce and start or return to some sort of ranching or farming?

I’m approaching 40 and realized that Im only happy when working/laboring with my hands tending to and building things but never happy “at work” would it be insane to consider a change to some sort of land based economy.
Let’s say any income would not be important so long as operating expenses were covered.

Anyone done it?


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Im dual income in this space. Let me put it in simple economic terms. Tractor, diesel, fertilizer and implements costs continually outpace grain markets and production gains,

Not saying its not worth it, its just the start up cost for smaller land holders is steep, and i would proceed cautiously.

Ranching well just buy JBS stock, they tend to make more money then the producer

 

[Throwin Darts]

I'm working toward the goal of making a living farming. I bought the land (160 acres in the Ozarks) 2 years ago, finished building a house on it this year, and plan to start running cattle next year. I plan to keep my job as an engineer while getting my farming enterprises going and have a goal to be fully supported by farm income by age 40 (I'm currently 34). I've been reading Joel Salatin's "You Can Farm" and "Your Successful Farm Business" for advice and inspiration.

I'm pursuing the regenerative/holistic/permaculture (some would call it hippie/earth muffin) route for philosophical reasons and because the low-input economic model appeals to me. I intend to use grassfed beef (initially sold into the commodity market then eventually finished on-farm and sold direct to consumer) as my centerpiece operation. Adding hair sheep might be step two. Maybe add laying hens and/or broilers someday. About half my acreage is wooded, so firewood and custom-milled lumber are possible side businesses.

In addition to Joel Salatin, I would recommend Gabe Brown, Jim Gerrish, Greg Judy, Allan Nation, and Kit Pharo as resources on how to make a living in agriculture.

Are you planning on South Polls? They are a big hit with some of the folks you mention. I have a herd and some came out of Mizzou.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Are you planning on South Polls? They are a big hit with some of the folks you mention. I have a herd and some came out of Mizzou.

I'm planning to get a South Poll bull. I would like to put him with full blood SP cows if I can find some for a decent price, but I may have to start with half bloods. I may also try some Corriente cows with a SP bull.

Have you been happy with your South Polls?

 

[Durran87]

They say the way to make a little money farming is to start with a lot of money. I run a sideline bee business but would hate to do it full time—the income is not that secure and it’s never ending work. On the other hand, in some states you can claim a bee business and argue your land is bee pasture. Being a farmer can have tax advantages.

 

[Billy Goat]

Joel Salatin makes his money by selling tickets to his farm.

He also lies about where his livestock comes from. He spent years buying stockers at the local stock yard, then would turn around and sell them as organic, knowing full well they had been vaccinated, and not knowing what else they might have been given.


He's a marketer, sells an idea.

 

[Afhunter1]

I have 30 cow/calf pairs on 50 acres of pasture. I also have 70 acres of hay. I am on year 3 of my farm side gig and think in 2 more years I should be profitable. It has been nice to have some ~40k losses last few years though. Ha ha

Also do some layers/broilers just for family. I couldn’t go back to eating store bought beef/chicken.

I’d also say to add a few rentals to the mix. Decent ones cash flow right out of the gate and don’t take much management. I have 5 apts and a house. Like to buy one more house yet. You can have a nice little supplement to your investments but take a few years to get there.

I invest also and plan to be “career optional” in about 8 years, 42 now.

 

[TreeDux]

I tried small scale organic produce farming and worked very hard at it. We never made money on it. Partly because it’s hard and profit margins will remain thin no matter what. But in retrospect I can see ways that I could have done much better.

One thing I have not seen anyone mention is USDA loans and grants. Farmers are aging out fast and our government is, or was, quietly begging people to farm. They would have almost given me a high tunnel ( greenhouse that you still farm directly in the ground) for growing tomatoes and other produce. I just wouldn’t commit. This may not be your thing but at least look into it. You have to let the government into part of your operation but it opens up a tremendous amount of resources.

Also, the tax benefits can be great, both on the property tax side as well as personal income.

IMO there is no good way to become a “big” operation from scratch now unless you’re already wealthy. There’s just too many input costs, mainly land and equipment. But that’s ok. Embrace the small. 10 acres with ample water and good growing conditions will produce an insane amount.

Lastly, having a game plan throughout the seasons is critical as is diversification. But don’t spread yourself too thin. Again, my opinion, but better to do 3 things well than 5 things poorly.

 

[Beendare]

Thinking bougie niche items to sell to hippies/townies
- flowers and honey
- restorative ranched non gmo beef
-chickens
- eggs
- maybe a small pumpkin patch to sell holiday magic
- apple orchard where people will pay to come pick my fruit
- hops for local breweries

^some of this is in jest but these are all profitable ventures within 25 miles of me

I get enough passive income from other investments and my wife’s income to not need to work but I can’t not work. My wife thinks I should be a fishing guide but I’m not a great conversationalist and there’s too many fishing guides around here anyway.

I really just want to move to some property and find a way to offset some of those costs. Having some food security would be an added bonus


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FWIW,
I build stuff for a living and love it. The problem lies in the business aspects; you still have to do all the other components of a business; accounting, taxes, supply chain, clients etc- that part can suck.

I have met with a few of those market garden folks- like the ones on Youtube. Its a low income proposition.….not worth it if you need the income. Large farms that friends own can do well but its not steady. . The really big operations can do well but then they get a drought year, or the price of cattle tanks and they are back to scraping and scrounging.
.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I have 30 cow/calf pairs on 50 acres of pasture. I also have 70 acres of hay. I am on year 3 of my farm side gig and think in 2 more years I should be profitable. It has been nice to have some ~40k losses last few years though. Ha ha

Also do some layers/broilers just for family. I couldn’t go back to eating store bought beef/chicken.

I’d also say to add a few rentals to the mix. Decent ones cash flow right out of the gate and don’t take much management. I have 5 apts and a house. Like to buy one more house yet. You can have a nice little supplement to your investments but take a few years to get there.

I invest also and plan to be “career optional” in about 8 years, 42 now.

Impressive stocking rates

 

[Hnthrdr]

Love the info in this thread. I may potentially get the chance to hobby ranch down the road, which in my opinion is ideal. wife is 6th gen from a pioneering family in Northern AZ. As long as my MIL and her sisters can keep the place, I love going to the ranch and working but what an eye opener. Ranch is 1/10th what it used to be size wise from bad business dealings and just the struggle of running a ranch in AZ. Land still has live water on it (creek) but man there isn’t a ton for the cows to eat. G-pa has the place maxed with like 40 pair. Definitely see the reward in working with your hands and the land. Not sure how anyone would start out west without being incredibly wealthy or inheriting land, even then the equipment needed is super expensive. I would look for less expensive land in like eastern Kansas where water is a non issue

 

[jKsled]

I'm in year 1 of this, grassfed beef. Have 4 aberdeen angus and will continue buying, up to 20 head over the next 2 years. I was lucky with 10 acres already fenced, but the remaining pasture needs to be fenced next year. If you work in a big enough town with your normal 9-5, you may already have a market among coworkers. This was land we bought as primary residence.

On paper, I can get 8% return over 12 years, with profit after ~yr 4, not including tax benefits. This is all subject to hay costs though. I don't ever see the singular beef commodity as a replacement to my 9-5. According to my math I'd need 375 head.

All very good points here. The traditional route is not viable as a startup. Need to do what you can without equipment & loans. The only remaining equipment expenses I have is a squeeze chute and add'l fencing. No tractors, trailers, skidsteers, etc. I've been evaluating the USDA microloans, it accelerates the program but postpones profit.

Look to county, state, and federal grants or loan programs. My county has been very helpful.

 

[Wheels]

A lot has already been said, but I have 20 angus cows, 20 calves and 1bull. You would think it would be profitable selling calves, but by the time you factor in feed, farm equipment and upkeep, fertilizer for hay fields( roughly $8K per year), possible mortality etc. your profit is gone. I’m retired and do it for the enjoyment, I could double my herd size and possibly make a profit but then you’d need help which isn’t free.
If you’re starting out, cattle prices are at an all time high, so plan on paying a premium buying cows. You’ll also need a dependable tractor and rotary mower to clip pastures.

 

[Afhunter1]

Impressive stocking rates

Well, I’m in PA so these cows get full hay feed from Nov-April and I also put out 30% protein tubs Jan-Mar.

Weened calves get hay and a few pounds of grower feed Nov-April.

Then everybody goes on pasture with high mag minerals in May.

My 70 acres of hay is just enough to get me through and I’m about maxed on pasture too. I def can’t handle any more animals.