KUIU Super Down vs. Western Mountaineering Badger, 15-degree bags

[Archeryshooter]

Regarding WM .. it is important to note that many of their bags existed long before the EN ratings and were the result of their real world data. Most are pretty consistent when viewed through EN as somewhere between Comfort and Limit. It would not make sense to start calling the 20 degree bag a 26 degree or a 14 degree all of sudden.

Thank you. Very good point and well said.

 

[robby denning]

Final review is up. It's not too late to edit in info if anyone chimes in with extensive durability testing for the WM Badger MF. That was all I couldn't include.

Thanks for everybody that chimed in on the live review. I mentioned a few of you in there, but thanks to all

KUIU Super Down v. Western Mountaineering Badger MF

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Final review is up. It's not too late to edit in info if anyone chimes in with extensive durability testing for the WM Badger MF. That was all I couldn't include.

Thanks for everybody that chimed in on the live review. I mentioned a few of you in there, but thanks to all

KUIU Super Down v. Western Mountaineering Badger MF
View attachment 166548

Thank you Robby for this awesome review. I really enjoyed following along and chiming in from time to time.

So, the other question is, would you choose the KUIU superdown over the SG Chilkoot?

 

[pyrotechnic]

I know this isn't one of the bags discussed but it's a Western Mountaneering bag. I just woke up in my WM Antelope (5 degree rating) and the truck said 6 degrees, at some point last night I had to loosen the draft collar as I was too hot.

Sleeping on a thermarest xtherm inside a Hilleberg Rogen. Wearing Merino wool baselayers and a wool beanie.

I'm incredibly impressed with the bag, I consider myself a cold sleeper.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[robby denning]

Thank you Robby for this awesome review. I really enjoyed following along and chiming in from time to time.

So, the other question is, would you choose the KUIU superdown over the SG Chilkoot?

I didn't get to test the SG on an air mattress so I can't say if it's truly warmer or if it was the Thermarest that cut the nearly 10 degrees off it (got it to around 6 degrees) compared to the others tested on air. So if I throw that out...

I like the KUIU the most as it's the lightest, even though it had a slight leak, it was negligible. And I'm a sucker for looks and it just plain looks good. It's zipper was my only real negative, but I've learned to use it more effectively with practice.

Chilkoot would be next, warm bag and very water resistant.

Western Mountaineering would be last, but really not by much. And if you're a big guy, might be the best route.

They are all great bags...I just prefer the KUIU having slept in all three. But I have the most nights in the SG (because I hunted a season with it after last year's test), and it's a solid solid bag.

 

[Archeryshooter]

Thank you Robby for this awesome review. I really enjoyed following along and chiming in from time to time.

So, the other question is, would you choose the KUIU superdown over the SG Chilkoot?

You beat me in saying the exact same thing! Yes, great job and great question about the Kuiu 15 vs SG 15.

 

[Archeryshooter]

I didn't get to test the SG on an air mattress so I can't say if it's truly warmer or if it was the Thermarest that cut the nearly 10 degrees off it (got it to around 6 degrees) compared to the others tested on air. So if I throw that out...

I like the KUIU the most as it's the lightest, even though it had a slight leak, it was negligible. And I'm a sucker for looks and it just plain looks good. It's zipper was my only real negative, but I've learned to use it more effectively with practice.

Chilkoot would be next, warm bag and very water resistant.

Western Mountaineering would be last, but really not by much. And if you're a big guy, might be the best route.

They are all great bags...I just prefer the KUIU having slept in all three. But I have the most nights in the SG (because I hunted a season with it after last year's test), and it's a solid solid bag.

Robby, as usual appreciate your methodology and insights! Maybe Kuiu pulled the 15 because they’re updating things like the zipper and seams?! Then, it’d be great to have a head-to-head with SG. Thank you again and keep up the good work!

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Great review. I also came here wondering about the warmth of the SG Chilkoot 15 vs the Kuiu 15.

 

[zacattack]

Anybody know what size stuff sack for the badger?

 

[NC Hunter]

This was super helpful. I have to upgrade my bag this year, I had planned to go the WM route but I may reconsider now.

 

[jackmat69]

Great review. Froze my ass off last year on archery elk hunt in North CO in a REI Magma 15. REI gave full refund which was great. Still searching for my next bag for this year.

 

[RJC]

Great review. Froze my ass off last year on archery elk hunt in North CO in a REI Magma 15. REI gave full refund which was great. Still searching for my next bag for this year.

Same here dude- I had the Magma 10 and it leaked feathers like crazy. REI took it back thankfully= still searching but it seems like the consensus is WM or FF

 

[Bluetreetrunk]

My own backyard in the winter makes for a good testbed for these bags- similar conditions to mid to late season in the high country.

The KUIU Superdown has been out since about 2014. I remember seeing the demo at the Expo that year with the down soaking in a cup. Patrick would take it out and shake it, and it would regain its fluff. KUIU built this bag around that down, so I’m excited to test it.

KUIU Super Down 850

@Ryan Avery sent me the Western Mountaineering Badger bag in November for my muzz hunt, but I didn’t yet have the KUIU so I couldn’t do a head to head

Western Mountaineering Badger 850

Looks like we have at least two nights this week with lows around the bags’ ratings and even way below if I get feeling brave.

I’ve got the SG Skyscraper set up with my Exped air mattress.

Like previous tests I’ve done on bags, I wanted to test these bags in what I’d typically be wearing when I knew the forecast called for temps in the mid-teens. I donned my First Lite Fuse LS top, the Furnace Long John on bottom, and Brooks sweater and a pair of Smart Wool socks. I’ll also wear light gloves and a beanie.

Test starts tonight. Its KUIU first. It’s a blizzard out there right now. Can’t wait!

This is an ongoing "journal entry" type review, so if interested, hit the "watch" button upper right of lead post in full-site mode. I'll be updating info and answering questions as I get more time in the

* Update 4/1/20
Final review is published. Thanks for all your input guys. https://www.rokslide.com/kuiu-v-western-mountaineering-sleeping-bag-review/

Nice!

OK, I’m alive. When I went to bed it was about 23°. Got into the cold bag (KUIU) and it warmed up nicely. To note, my pillows a little too big to go full mummy mode on either bag. I can’t pull in the face opening all the way tight, so keep that in mind as that can affect the temp rating. Although, to be clear there were no drafts that I could feel coming into the bag. I just may have been able to retain heat a little bit better with the bags closed around my face.

Also, if you followed my bag tests last year, I am a cold sleeper, most people sleep warmer than I do, so keep that in mind.

By about 3 AM it dropped into the teens and my thighs started to get cold. I turned on my side and curled up a little bit thinking that would warm me up, but it didn’t. I slipped on my lightweight FL Obsidians but was still chilled on my thighs an hour later (rest of me—torso, head, feet—were fine).

So I decided it was a good time to jump in the Western Mountaineering Badger, and see if it did any better. It did not.

In the temp department, it was a virtual tie between the two bags and I was only able to get to 19°. No I wasn’t freezing by any means, just at the point of discomfort. If I would’ve pulled a jacket into the bag and covered my thighs, I would’ve been just fine. My feet were NOT cold. But I’m obviously nearing the limit of the bags in these conditions for a cold sleeper.

To note, I’d eaten lentil soup at 530 PM but didn’t go to bed till 1230, so pretty much an empty stomach. This affects temp ratings for most people with hunger lending to less heat generated.

A note on conditions, we had high winds all night, with gusts in the 30s. (In fact most of the schools are closed today.) You can see above the wind chill was -2° and was rarely below 20mph

That certainly played into the warmth of the tent, as the wind comes up underneath the fly, and creates a draft in the tent that wouldn’t normally be there.

Hoping on the next night I get to test there’s no wind and the temperatures are similar and I’ll see if it makes any difference.

Also, I was sleeping on my Exped Megamat Lite MW. It’s R-value is 5.3 and rated for -4°, but from what I understand, air pads are not as warm as sleeping with no air underneath you, like on the ground or in a cot with a foam mattress. So that will be my next test on the night we have these same temperatures.

For my size, 180 lbs, 5’9”, the KUIU fits a little snugger, as in a good way. The Western Mountaineering bag had more room, and a little more dead airspace to fill. I’ll edit this post to reflect the actual bag sizes as soon as I can, but whatever they are, they were ordered for my size and they fit me.

The draft collar on on the KUIU is really easy to use although I never snapped it up because it almost doesn’t need it. I struggled with the zipper a little bit more on the KUIU , only because the draft flap gets in the way a little bit as you’re zipping it up and down. Just takes a little more learning to use, and it has a tag on it so that I was able to grip with gloves.

With the Western Mountaineering bag, there’s no tag so you have to feel around on the zipper until you get a hold of the metal tab, but it zips up and down very smoothly and doesn’t snag easily. I did not test the draft collar on this bag, simply because I got into it in the dark and didn’t really have a chance to figure out how to best use it. However, the bag seals up nicely around the neck just the way it was.

As mentioned, my pillow may be impeding the best use of both these bags, so I’ll consider that on the next test.

And if anyone cares, the KUIU is a better looking bag overall.

So I have some test parameters I need to work on next night out as described above.

I’ll also make sure I go into full mummy mode on the next night of testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nice

 

[passinggas33]

Well after reading through this review and research it quite a bit, I took my 20% off birthday code and bought the Kuiu Superdown, but I did it in the 0 degree model. I’ll let everybody know what I think. Thanks Robby for the great review and insight.

 

[robby denning]

Well after reading through this review and research it quite a bit, I took my 20% off birthday code and bought the Kuiu Superdown, but I did it in the 0 degree model. I’ll let everybody know what I think. Thanks Robby for the great review and insight.

you're welcome and we'd love to hear about your experiences once you receive the bag. I predict you'll really like that zero bag.

 

[Bigpops]

Fantastic review! Thank you very much.

But now I am even more on the fence. I love the KUIU products I have purchased so far (clothing) and now I am trying to find the perfect bag for my first ever Elk bowhunt this September in Colorado.

I'm 6'3", 220, warm sleeper. mostly back and side position. Not to keen on a super restrictive bag.

I have narrowed it down to the KUIU, WM Badger and the SG Chilkoot. All are within $100 of each other with the WM being the most expensive. I really want to make a wise choice here so if the old saying is "buy once cry once" is true then so be it.

For those of you out there that have owned either of these bags what would you suggest?

Thank you in advance!

Steve

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Fantastic review! Thank you very much.

But now I am even more on the fence. I love the KUIU products I have purchased so far (clothing) and now I am trying to find the perfect bag for my first ever Elk bowhunt this September in Colorado.

I'm 6'3", 220, warm sleeper. mostly back and side position. Not to keen on a super restrictive bag.

I have narrowed it down to the KUIU, WM Badger and the SG Chilkoot. All are within $100 of each other with the WM being the most expensive. I really want to make a wise choice here so if the old saying is "buy once cry once" is true then so be it.

For those of you out there that have owned either of these bags what would you suggest?

Thank you in advance!

Steve

Well you can rule out KUIU as they do not offer the 15 degree anymore.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Fantastic review! Thank you very much.

But now I am even more on the fence. I love the KUIU products I have purchased so far (clothing) and now I am trying to find the perfect bag for my first ever Elk bowhunt this September in Colorado.

I'm 6'3", 220, warm sleeper. mostly back and side position. Not to keen on a super restrictive bag.

I have narrowed it down to the KUIU, WM Badger and the SG Chilkoot. All are within $100 of each other with the WM being the most expensive. I really want to make a wise choice here so if the old saying is "buy once cry once" is true then so be it.

For those of you out there that have owned either of these bags what would you suggest?

Thank you in advance!

Steve

Hey man. I’m 6’2” and 200 lbs. I hate a restrictive bag also and am a side sleeper. You should go for a semi rec western mountaineering cut in that 15 degree temp range instead of the traditional mummy cuts.

Take a look at their Ponderosa model. I think it comes in both MF and their GWS materials. If you want GWS you may have to jump up to the Seqouia model which is an amazing bag also. I own that bag. The semi rec cuts are a much better fit for someone our size and is absolute quality from western mountaineering.

I’d also highly recommend purchasing it from Hermits Hut as you get it for the same price but comes with free overfill to up the temp rating a bit. They also ship fast and are a small local business which is awesome.

 

[Mike Islander]

Hey man. I’m 6’2” and 200 lbs. I hate a restrictive bag also and am a side sleeper. You should go for a semi rec western mountaineering cut in that 15 degree temp range instead of the traditional mummy cuts.

Take a look at their Ponderosa model. I think it comes in both MF and their GWS materials. If you want GWS you may have to jump up to the Seqouia model which is an amazing bag also. I own that bag. The semi rec cuts are a much better fit for someone our size and is absolute quality from western mountaineering.

I’d also highly recommend purchasing it from Hermits Hut as you get it for the same price but comes with free overfill to up the temp rating a bit. They also ship fast and are a small local business which is awesome.

+1000 for Hermit's Hut. They include 10% over stuff standard and are super to deal with. The owner always picked up the phone to give me advice.

I bought the Sycamore, which is a work of art and a decent size in the chest, and especially knee area. But the foot box is smaller than I prefer, even though it's a good bit larger than most mummy bags. I could also use a couple inches at the shoulder. I'm 5'8" and muscular build. Since it's essentially a 20 degree bag (25 + over stuff), I've been fine with it in the cold, where I don't mind just bundling up like a mummy. But if I could get the same warmth with a larger foot box and a little more shoulder space I would go for that next time. In fact I'll probably keep this bag but add a Sequoia MF to my collection. I don't see a need for GWS, as the WM Microfiber is pretty water resistant and tough enough for my needs.

Here is a link to the page that lists all of WM bags. So you can see the diameters of every bag. Notice that the size of the foot box on the Sequoia is only 2" more than the Sycamore, but that would definitely be an improvement for me.

Specification Chart | Western Mountaineering

www.westernmountaineering.com

 

[robby denning]

Fantastic review! Thank you very much.

But now I am even more on the fence. I love the KUIU products I have purchased so far (clothing) and now I am trying to find the perfect bag for my first ever Elk bowhunt this September in Colorado.

I'm 6'3", 220, warm sleeper. mostly back and side position. Not to keen on a super restrictive bag.

I have narrowed it down to the KUIU, WM Badger and the SG Chilkoot. All are within $100 of each other with the WM being the most expensive. I really want to make a wise choice here so if the old saying is "buy once cry once" is true then so be it.

For those of you out there that have owned either of these bags what would you suggest?

Thank you in advance!

Steve

thank you. The WM had more room but I didn't find the KUIU restrictive for my 5'9" 180 lbs, nor the SG