New back pack hunter

[theycallmemud]

I plan on doing my first back pack hunt for archery elk in wyoming. Been base camp hunting along time. I ll be hunting anywhere from 8000 to 10000 ft. Wanna know what you all think of this system, ive been researching like crazy and this is what I came up with.

Shelter: x-mid 2 solid
2lb 8 oz
Pad: therm a rest neo air x lite 4.5 r value, 13 oz
Bag: western mountaineering terralite 25
1lb 15 oz

I built this system for April - September, but feel like I might need a different pad and bag for hunting elk and mule deer through October and possibly November. I was thinking a therma rest Xtherm paired with a western mountaineering badger 15 or a versalite 10.

 

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I’ve done the backpacking thing for over 20 years now. These are all really good options. The x lite I’ve had to single digits but for me it gets a little lack luster below 20 degrees. I’d also go for a zero degree bag instead of a 10 degree moon late hunts. Ideally you’d buy the 20 degree and x lite and start there and then add a 0 degree and bag and x therm if you get into late season hunts. I’m not a fan of hot tents for backpacking so I’d keep the shelter the same regardless. The x mid will handle enough weather as long as you pick good sheltered camp locations in the late season.

 

[theycallmemud]

I’ve done the backpacking thing for over 20 years now. These are all really good options. The x lite I’ve had to single digits but for me it gets a little lack luster below 20 degrees. I’d also go for a zero degree bag instead of a 10 degree moon late hunts. Ideally you’d buy the 20 degree and x lite and start there and then add a 0 degree and bag and x therm if you get into late season hunts. I’m not a fan of hot tents for backpacking so I’d keep the shelter the same regardless. The x mid will handle enough weather as long as you pick good sheltered camp locations in the late season.

What would you consider a good camp location in bad weather? I had a big aspen fall right along the side of my tent, when i was sleeping, about ten years ago on a elk hunt in southern utah. It landed about two feet from me and and two inches from the tent and perfectly parallel. I woke up got out of the tent and was very confused at first wondering if I absent mindedly set the tent that close to the tree. No way. Then I see the fresh dirt from the roots sticking up. It was a very live looking tree. Ever since then I don't sleep next to trees if i can help it.

 

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What would you consider a good camp location in bad weather? I had a big aspen fall right along the side of my tent, when i was sleeping, about ten years ago on an elk hunt in southern utah. It landed about two feet from me and and two inches from the tent and perfectly parallel. I woke up got out of the tent and was very confused at first wondering if I absent mindedly set the tent that close to the tree. No way. Then I see the fresh dirt from the roots sticking up. It was a very live looking tree. Ever since then I don't sleep next to trees if i can help it.

Mostly out of the direct exposure to the wind in terms of how a shelter handles. Some tents like a hilleberg can take high winds with snow load but it’s still hard on them. If you can tuck into a less exposed spot lighter weight shelters will fare better.

 

[NeedleCrook]

if you’re looking at the xtherm for colder weather, you might as well go straight for that and bypass the xlite. I use my xtherm on every trip, including hot weather camping in Southern California

 

[NickyD]

I’d look at a 0-10 degree bag instead of the 25. Those temp rates are survival ratings, not comfort ratings. And wearing additional layers doesn’t work nearly as well as a colder rated bag IMO.

I’ve had good luck with pads in the 4-5 R value rating for those dates and elevations. If you’re expecting colder weather you can always add a closed cell pad. You add R values so if you add 4.5+2=6.5 which is good for low temps.

 

[jchamwv]

I would use what you have and sleep in my puffy jacket and pants if it was cold enough.

 

[ProStaffSteve]

buddy and I did a november elk hunt this year. First time doing so by camping. Big Agnes 0 degree bag & pad, loaded with my gear & a peaks floorless tent/tyvak floors it worked pretty darn well down to 8 degrees (not great, but it worked.) Slept on snow pack one of the days and holy crap was that cold at 15 degrees.

 

[GunsAreFun]

The weight difference to get an Xtherm and then never have to worry about it again is so small.

The actual ISO comfort rating for the bag is 28 degrees. If you sleep warm, that will be fine for archery but inadequate for late season, and you have to get a second bag or supplement it. If you are a cold or even an average sleeper, that may not be enough to keep you comfy for archery every night. We get 1-2 days below freezing every night with an average low of around 35.

 

[theycallmemud]

I would use what you have and sleep in my puffy jacket and pants if it was cold enough.

This is what I was thinking. I have kuiu super down jacket and pants I plan on packing them anyways.

 

[theycallmemud]

I plan on picking up another bag for sure. I was thinking a western mountaineering kodiak 0 or the badger 15 for october hunts. There's a 10 oz weight difference between the two. The badger seems more versatile, for September to late October with enough room to add my kuiu down if it gets real cold. The coldest I've experienced in colorado and utah is 12 degrees for general rifle deer and first rifle elk.

 

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I plan on picking up another bag for sure. I was thinking a western mountaineering kodiak 0 or the badger 15 for october hunts. There's a 10 oz weight difference between the two. The badger seems more versatile, for September to late October with enough room to add my kuiu down if it gets real cold. The coldest I've experienced in colorado and utah is 12 degrees for general rifle deer and first rifle elk.

Also depends on what states you plan to hunt. I was in Idaho this year and nights were 5-10 degrees in early November. Last time in the same season it was -15F for 5 nights in a row. Last NE Oregon trip I did in November was -5 on average for 7 days. I backpacked successfully in all of those but there isn’t a whole lot of margin for error on some of those trips with your moisture management and gear selection. Also plan on 1000-1500 extra calories per day over early season temps in those kind of conditions. The cold eats your body fat and energy fast.

Additionally an insulated water bottle is a must and you will have to dump your water storage bladder out at night to keep it from freezing where it won’t be able to be emptied for the rest of your trip. If you want to camp on a creek for water it will need to be fast moving to avoid freezing up or you will need to pack adequate fuel to melt snow.

I really enjoy the cold weather backpacking but there are some things to take into account to stay comfortable. Clothing wise I haven’t struggled. A good set of down pants and a down jacket should do you fine.

I’ve used a 0 degree feathered friends bag paired with down clothing on all these trips and been fine at night.

 

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Also be sure that if you want to bone out meat to do it immediately. I’ve learned that the hard way too by quartering the first night on an elk and having all the quarters freeze to the bone overnight. I got it bones out still the next day after a lot of effort, but in many small chunks that made a lot of burger and not much else.

It’s far easier to bone out meat on the spot in November. Probably something I should have thought of but I’d spent all my life before that as a September archery guy.

The late season stuff really is a blast with absolutely zero people around in most areas off the road. It can be an absolute blast and should definitely be tried if you’re interested in it. Just plan accordingly to keep yourself comfortable and safe as you get a feel for what you like and don’t like. Then you can push the envelope from there once you feel confident in your gear and yourself.

 

[theycallmemud]

Also be sure that if you want to bone out meat to do it immediately. I’ve learned that the hard way too by quartering the first night on an elk and having all the quarters freeze to the bone overnight. I got it bones out still the next day after a lot of effort, but in many small chunks that made a lot of burger and not much else.

It’s far easier to bone out meat on the spot in November. Probably something I should have thought of but I’d spent all my life before that as a September archery guy.

The late season stuff really is a blast with absolutely zero people around in most areas off the road. It can be an absolute blast and should definitely be tried if you’re interested in it. Just plan accordingly to keep yourself comfortable and safe as you get a feel for what you like and don’t like. Then you can push the envelope from there once you feel confident in your gear and yourself.

This makes total sense. Never put any thought into water freezing. Even though I'm used to the hose always freezing on my hydration bladder during day hunts. Dump what won't fit in my insulated water bottle every night? I can see why a stove and floorless is so appealing to some people during those later hunts.

Any tips for finding water. What is your process before a hunt and while your there in the area you plan to hunt?

 

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This makes total sense. Never put any thought into water freezing. Even though I'm used to the hose always freezing on my hydration bladder during day hunts. Dump what won't fit in my insulated water bottle every night? I can see why a stove and floorless is so appealing to some people during those later hunts.

Any tips for finding water. What is your process before a hunt and while you’re there in the area you plan to hunt?

It all depends on the low temp obviously but below 20 degrees I think it’s worth dumping any sort of non insulated water container. You can put it in your sleeping bag but I don’t like to because it generally makes me colder. You can heat it and put it in your bag but my storage container is a 4L bladder and it’s just too much to usually heat.

Water wise if it’s cold enough to freeze the smaller creeks the water sources are pretty easy to identify because they will all be more major streams with better flow. They will also usually require dropping more elevation to get to so I like to melt snow when I can. The only reliable purification for water is either boiling or chemical. I use chemical when I feel like I need to but i drink 90% of it without treating it (take that with caution and do what you will, I’ve gotten giardia before but only once).

There’s other little annoying things that will freeze but they’re fairly easy to deal with. There’s other little thermarest valve will likely freeze but 30 seconds with a bare hand around it will melt that free. Boots will freeze as will damp clothing. A pair of crocs or something like that can be good to get a fire going in the morning before day light to thaw your boots. Or you can go to a double boot like a synthetic mountaineering boot or a pack boot. These you can remove the liners from and sleep in the liners.

Day to day I don’t do much different than I do in September to hunt. I glass morning and evening and move camp mid day to the next spot until I find what I want to shoot. Moving camp every day is the main reason I don’t like hot tents. They require a bigger camp site in terms of a flat area than I normally have and the setup and take down time is a lot more. The heat can be nice though but I get around that by sitting around a fire in the morning and evening.

Every trip there’s some sort of new annoyance or thing that pops up that I learn to deal with and fix for the next time. This last trip I had a day of 30
Degree weather with sun mid day and the snow would stick to and ball up on the dyneema rope under my foot from my gaiters. About a baseball size chunk would build every 20 steps and I’d have to break it out with my trekking poles. I make a lot of my own gear so I just cut the straps off and left the gaiters on for the snow because I knew I could fix them at home myself.

None of these things are major issues just little things you learn over time and get better at. They can also be site and location dependent or weather dependent so it’s not like they all apply on any given trip.

 

[zfeldma]

Down jacket can supplement the bag. And/or a down quilt. Still wouldn't want to take your 25 much below 20.

 

[Mukwa]

I’d go straight for the Xtherm, minimal weight penalty and one pad to cover your basis for the cost.