Kuiu performance - not as advertised! Beware

[Matt W.]

I've tested a lot of rain gear and have had good luck with both the KUIU Chugach and the Sitka Dewpoint. What I like about the Dewpoint stuff is the weight, but the price is better on the Chugach. I have had wear spots on the Chugach where the jacket fabric was worn thin, but it still didn't leak (stuck in ATV box for bouncy ride out wore a thin spot in the hood, of all places). I have ran the Chugach longer, but the Dewpoint line is my current lightweight favorite.

If you need the heavyweight burly stuff I once again lean toward Sitka going with the Stormfront rain gear. Its not light, but it fits me the best and has been an excellent performer. The Yukon and Kryptek offerings have their pros and cons, but for me I really liked the details of the Stormfront gear. Pockets, fit & finish, design details, and the Stormfront's overall performance work best for me.

If weight is a not a major concern, and I don't need the burly stuff it comes down to the KUIU Chugach or the First Lite Stormtight. For this use I like the Stormtight because it fits looser than the Chugach and I really like the versatility of the Dry Earth color. This loose fit allows me to easily carry a chest pack with my pistol (under the jacket). This is great for most of my summer trips (backpacking and fishing). I can leave it slightly unzipped and still keep the Hill People Gear kit bag mostly dry. Theoretically a size up in the Chugach might also fill this same role. ??

My time brush busting in the rain has not been as extensive as Steve, but for those adventures I ran the Helly Hansen Impertech because I figured the layered stuff would just get torn up. I have also busted brush a few times getting in and out of sheep country and its either been mild, I've been lucky, or all three because my rain gear survived and I didn't get to wet. This brings me back to the Dewpoint. What I like about this stuff is how fast it dries out. All of the heavier stuff I have tested (Yukon, Koldo, Stormfront, Coldfront, etc) takes a long time to dry out once completely soaked. The Chugach stuff is a close 2nd with the Stormtight right behind. I also think the Stormtight is a tad quieter in the brush than the Chugach.

To summarize there are 4 sets of rain gear that have passed my tests: KUIU Chugach, Sitka Dewpoint, Sitka Stormfront, and First Lite Stormfront. The trick is picking the right set for my chosen pursuit. Each has their place and I'd be confident in all 4 given the correct parameters.

 

[CGSwimmer25]

I've also never had an issue with my Yukon or Chugach rain gear. The Yukon pants were the only pants I brought on my Sheep hunts last year and this year. Wore them through rain, snow and sunshine without a single issue. Maybe you have a faulty set? Given alaska's brutal nature it's also a good idea to test out your gear before you head out into the field.

 

[mtnclimber]

No matter the maker, Ultra lite and durable are two things that don't go together in a pack. For that reason, I would never again take an "ultra lite" pack into the back country.

I wouldn't really say that. The stone glacier terminus is 3.99 lbs and has a proven track record of durability and heavy load carrying.

As for the rain gear, it sounds like kuiu has had quite a few 'duds' put out there. hopefully your new one will solve that issue.

I have the chugach nx, and on this years sheep hunt kept me dry until a heavy sweaty pack out through soaking wet brush. Aint nothing gonna keep you dry in that.

 

[Kotaman]

I wouldn't really say that. The stone glacier terminus is 3.99 lbs and has a proven track record of durability and heavy load carrying.

As for the rain gear, it sounds like kuiu has had quite a few 'duds' put out there. hopefully your new one will solve that issue.

I have the chugach nx, and on this years sheep hunt kept me dry until a heavy sweaty pack out through soaking wet brush. Aint nothing gonna keep you dry in that.

I agree, Stone Glacier is THE only good option for a super light pack...

 

[Terrapin]

I'm not sure I agree with the Stone Glacier vs Kuiu Ultra pack comparison. I ran a SG Solo for the last 20 days and my hunting partner used a Kuiu Ultra 3000. We had no durability or comfort issues with either pack. Each of us carry around 30lbs while hunting and we also used them for packing out the first load on two elk (~90 lbs). I felt the SG carried the heavier weight better. The real reason I am considering switching to the Kuiu is that it is substantially quieter. We hunt the brush jungles of n Idaho and the SG was always catching the load lifters and making a racket. (I realize the load lifters make it more comfortable to haul mass, they sure make a lot of noise). Secondly I have a squeak in the foam of one of my shoulder straps that just won't quit. Lastly the kuiu compressed down smaller in day pack mode and had more creature comforts like accessible pockets. That being said I will keep the SG for high country hunts and rifle hunts, but for my brushy archery hunts I think I will try the kuiu.

 

[blackdog]

Tell you what, when you get your replacement Yukon stuff back, feel free to send me a PM and I'll trade you straight across for a brand new set of rubberized Grunden's that are guaranteed not to let water in from the outside.

My Chugach set has seen many a days in the brushy coastal rainforests of western Oregon and hasn't let me down yet and I've been anxious to give a Yukon set a try.

 

[MatSuDano]

Tell you what, when you get your replacement Yukon stuff back, feel free to send me a PM and I'll trade you straight across for a brand new set of rubberized Grunden's that are guaranteed not to let water in from the outside.

My Chugach set has seen many a days in the brushy coastal rainforests of western Oregon and hasn't let me down yet and I've been anxious to give a Yukon set a try.

Throw in $600 and I'll think about it. You can even keep your Grundies! (I've got a few sets of Hellys and Grundens laying around)

 

[LJ Buck]

I'm not sure I agree with the Stone Glacier vs Kuiu Ultra pack comparison. I ran a SG Solo for the last 20 days and my hunting partner used a Kuiu Ultra 3000. We had no durability or comfort issues with either pack. Each of us carry around 30lbs while hunting and we also used them for packing out the first load on two elk (~90 lbs). I felt the SG carried the heavier weight better. The real reason I am considering switching to the Kuiu is that it is substantially quieter. We hunt the brush jungles of n Idaho and the SG was always catching the load lifters and making a racket. (I realize the load lifters make it more comfortable to haul mass, they sure make a lot of noise). Secondly I have a squeak in the foam of one of my shoulder straps that just won't quit. Lastly the kuiu compressed down smaller in day pack mode and had more creature comforts like accessible pockets. That being said I will keep the SG for high country hunts and rifle hunts, but for my brushy archery hunts I think I will try the kuiu.

PM me if you sell your SG.

 

[Kotaman]

I'm not sure I agree with the Stone Glacier vs Kuiu Ultra pack comparison. I ran a SG Solo for the last 20 days and my hunting partner used a Kuiu Ultra 3000. We had no durability or comfort issues with either pack. Each of us carry around 30lbs while hunting and we also used them for packing out the first load on two elk (~90 lbs). I felt the SG carried the heavier weight better. The real reason I am considering switching to the Kuiu is that it is substantially quieter. We hunt the brush jungles of n Idaho and the SG was always catching the load lifters and making a racket. (I realize the load lifters make it more comfortable to haul mass, they sure make a lot of noise). Secondly I have a squeak in the foam of one of my shoulder straps that just won't quit. Lastly the kuiu compressed down smaller in day pack mode and had more creature comforts like accessible pockets. That being said I will keep the SG for high country hunts and rifle hunts, but for my brushy archery hunts I think I will try the kuiu.

No doubt the Ultra has its place as a daypack, but IMO the back country is no place for the Ultra. (yes, I have both) The two packs are really apples to oranges. With that said, my quote above should have said "I agree, the Stone Glacier is the only good option for a super light pack in the back country"...

 

[Rucker61]

No doubt the Ultra has its place as a daypack, but IMO the back country is no place for the Ultra. (yes, I have both) The two packs are really apples to oranges. With that said, my quote above should have said "I agree, the Stone Glacier is the only good option for a super light pack in the back country"...

So you're excluding the Exo and the Paradox packs?

 

[jm1607]

So you're excluding the Exo and the Paradox packs?

I think what he means is the SG is pretty much the lightest pack that is proven and can haul a big load..

The Exo can but it's 3/4 pounds heavier

 

[DaveC]

As far as the pack goes, the Ultra is anything but durable. No matter the maker, Ultra lite and durable are two things that don't go together in a pack. For that reason, I would never again take an "ultra lite" pack into the back country. The Icon Pro, however, is a different animal.

Two separate and not really related statements. To stick with your example, the Icon is heavier than the Ultra because of features, much more than fabric. Assuming 1.5 yards of fabric in the Ultra, and 500D at 8 oz/yard and 160D at 4 oz/yard, it's easy to see where the weight savings happens.

This is similar to why Paradox and Stone Glacier have packs the same size and toughness, and with Paradox more features, than Kifaru at several pounds less.

 

[Kotaman]

So you're excluding the Exo and the Paradox packs?

Certainly not, in fact I have an EXO ordered. Should have said, (third time's a charm) "I agree, the Stone Glacier is the only good option I'VE TESTED for a super light pack in the back country"... and I've tested a bunch...Very excited to try the EXO...The Stone Glacier is still lighter than the EXO and carrys like a dream. From a features standpoint in a 3500 ish CI pack, I like the fact that the EXO has a lid where my Solo did not.

 

[Kotaman]

Two separate and not really related statements. To stick with your example, the Icon is heavier than the Ultra because of features, much more than fabric. Assuming 1.5 yards of fabric in the Ultra, and 500D at 8 oz/yard and 160D at 4 oz/yard, it's easy to see where the weight savings happens.

This is similar to why Paradox and Stone Glacier have packs the same size and toughness, and with Paradox more features, than Kifaru at several pounds less.

thus the statement: "is a different animal"...wasn't comparing the two or intending for them to be related statements. your statement about the fabric along with chincy waistbelt on the Ultra is VERY easy to see where the weight savings happens.

 

[chindits]

Getting back to rain gear. I had a first lite stormfront top and kuiu chugach (not nx) pants. I really wanted to like the first lite since I can pro deal them. However, a 30 hour period of rain and snow in the CO rockies in September left me impressed with the kuiu pants and unimpressed with the first lite top. The interiors are different with the two materials and the kuiu material definitely felt drier. The exterior material of the first lite stromfront appeared to pucker slightly in that long period of rain and the jacket also seemed to gain a significant amount of weight. I was wondering if there was moisture getting between the outer layer and the laminated under layer. I didn't have a scale at the time, but it felt like the first lite material gained water weight where as the kuiu gear did not. The almost rubberised textured and that huge interior brand tag of the first lite material showed what appeared to be visible moisture. My puffy jacket on one occasion and my shirt on another occasion had visible moisture on it. These were not heavy exertion days. The basin was socked in with ground fog and I turned to slow moving still hunting the strips of forrest between avalanche chutes. Very slow and low exertion levels with hardly any brush busting. However the kuiu pants were sorely abused as the game trails turned into greased rails and I ended up falling on my butt sliding down these trails looking for tufts of grass to get my boots on.

To be fair I need to wear both tops and bottoms again with the exact same base layer. Take weights before and after. Maybe devise an interior toilet paper wipe test and see if there is a weight difference on the moisture the paper absorbs. In short, I wanted to really like the first lite but found it to be unsat. The kuiu bottoms, which I got on their close out page pleasantly surprised me. I also found the almost dry suit type zippers on the first lite jacket impossible to manipulate with one hand and had to use both hands on them due to the resistance of the rubber barrier. I had to trim back these rubber barrier type lips at the start of the main zipper on the first lite to get the zipper to work, track, and align properly. I think they have gone a bit overboard on the zippers and the interior hood cord cinches are absurd. To be fair and bag on kuiu, the snaps on the bottom of the pants do little to nothing for closing up the bottom of the legs. I think they would be better served going to velcro like you fince on the military ECWS rain pants or some of the Klim motorcycle pants. If you want totally absurd, what is with the double zipper on the fly of the Kuiu attack pants....spare me. I spend about 50 days/nights in the field so your YMMV.

In addition when I came out of the field to change from archery to ML, I treated both products with 3m Scotchguard to see if refreshing the DWR exterior qualities would help. Well the last day of ML was a rainey one and I had the exact same experience as I had earlier.

 

[Matt W.]

Noticed a few of these threads on rain gear lately... Posted a follow up comment to my reviews here:
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?20853-New-Article-up-on-Hard-Core-Rain-Gear
See Post 6. Hope it is useful.

Matt

 

[Blockcaver]

Love my four year old Chugach rain gear. Worked great on a brutal all day pack out in the snow, wind and at times hard rain last Saturday in northern BC as I finished up a sheep hunt. I had mud to the crotch on the pants by the time I got to the truck at dark. I was fairly dry despite exertion and walking through willows around treeline. Anyway, mine still works. I do wash it periodically. I do open the pit vents on the jacket and fly and upper side zippers to vent a bit more when out of the willows. Attack pants are awesome underneath too. YMMV as the original poster's obviously did.

 

[Scot E]

I agree, Stone Glacier is THE only good option for a super light pack...

I have hunted with the SG solo the last 2 years and can't say enough good about it. It is a fantastic pack! I had a small rear quarter of an elk in the load shelf along with my gear and it performed flawlessly over 2 miles of hiking. front quarters are a no brainer! I can't say I have noticed any issues with the lifters catching brush or making noise but I can say that the SG material is noticeably quieter than the Kuiu 6000 my buddy has. The only thing the 6000 had that I liked better was more pockets and storage areas. One more pocket on the SG like the top one would be perfect for my use. However, I am still very happy with SG! Zero issues after 30+ days of hard hunting the Idaho Rockies!

Scot

 

[MRidge]

To the original post - stating not as advertised. I can't speak for the rain gear or clothing for that matter, however agree 100% on the Ultra 6000 pack.
Within the first two trips before season, the pack already had seam separation. It's quite apparent where the weight reduction came into play, as I went ahead and used it through our September season. As of the end of the season, the bag had additional holes. This is not a pack I would want to continue to rely upon in the backcountry.
Kudo's for them taking care of it, however this will now become a day-pack.