Knight UL .50 cal -- load development

[Idaho_archer4]

Hey all,

I've been a long time Rokslide lurker and thought I'd throw out some load development info on a Knight UL .50 Western I recently purchased.

Disclaimer, I'm just diving into ML hunting and this is my first muzzleloader. I settled on my current setup based on a ton of info from this forum (shout out to Sabotloader!!!), as well as other reviews and info I pulled from the internet. Below is a summary of my first range day dialing in the loads and getting the gun sighted in. Just thought I'd share my notes with folks in case they had similar setups and wanted to compare.

~~~~~~~~

I started by loading up from 60 gr weighed of Triple Seven FFFG, shooting three shots, making adjustments to the sights, bumping the charge 5 gr, and rinse/repeat. I topped out at 75 gr before settling back to 70 gr. The best groups were at 65-70 gr and opened up at 75. I was pushing 1500 fps (1488, 1496, 1490) @ 75 gr which I felt was a bit overkill for the kick that it came with not to mention the group started opening up. I didn't setup the chrono until the end of the day because I was focused more on grouping than speed while I was working through the chargers so I don't have velocities for 60 gr and 65 gr shots. The shots I did chrono at 70 gr and 75 gr averaged ~1435 fps and ~1490 fps, respectively.

~~~~~ General Data~~~~~~
Partly Sunny
Temp - 80 F
Elevation - 5300 ft
Baro Pressure - 29.97 inHg
Humidity - 30 %
Muzzleloader sighted in @ 100 yards
Knight Ultra Lite .50 cal western
Western Precision Fiber Optic Muzzleloading sights
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~ Best Load ~~~~~~
CCI No. 11 percussion caps
460 gr. No Excuses - .503
Ox-Yoke Dry Wonder Wads: 5000D - .50 cal
Hodgdon Triple Seven FFFG - 70 gr weighed (~76 gr volume measure)
Shooting ~1435 fps (1432, 1437, 1440)
Grouped ~3" @ 100 yards (3 shot).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~ Shooting/Cleaning Sequence ~~~~~~
First shot:

1. Run dry cleaning cloth down to bottom of gun
2. Flip dry cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
3. Fire two primers with ramrod/cloth at bottom
4. Load 70 gr weighed (~76 gr volume measured) Triple Seven FFFG
5. Place Dry Wonder Wad flush over muzzle
6. Load 460 gr No excuses
7. Seat bullet and Wonder Wad at same time.
8. Set primer tight and shoot

Every additional shot:

1. Run presoaked cleaning cloth down barrel
2. Flip presoaked cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
3. Run dry cleaning cloth down barrel
4. Flip dry cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
5. Fire two primers with ramrod/cloth at bottom of barrel
6. Load 70 gr weighed (~76 grn volume measured) Triple Seven FFFG
7. Place Dry Wonder Wad flush over muzzle
8. Load 460 gr No excuses
9. Seat bullet and Wonder Wad at same time.
10. Set primer tight and shoot

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this post was informative for folks. Also, thanks again Sabotloader (and other folks on this forum) for the wealth of ML information on the forum.

 

[ilikefunkymusic]

Running 300gr thors w/ 120 by vol of BH behind it.
2.4" high at 100y
0 at 150y
-5.5" at 200y

 

[tdcour]

I'm almost exactly the same as funky. I'm 114 volume or 84 weighed. I'm running Winchester 209 primers and got the upgraded plug from BeStill. That was life changing.

+2 at 100
-1 at 150
-8 at 200

I wish I kept as detailed notes as you have! Probably would make my life easier!

 

[ENCORE]

Running 300gr thors w/ 120 by vol of BH behind it.
2.4" high at 100y
0 at 150y
-5.5" at 200y

What lot# of BH?

 

[MallardSX2]

I shot $200 worth of components through my knight UL and then sold the thing. Glas some of you guys are getting yours to shoot worth a crap.

 

[Wrench]

Hey all,

I've been a long time Rokslide lurker and thought I'd throw out some load development info on a Knight UL .50 Western I recently purchased.

Disclaimer, I'm just diving into ML hunting and this is my first muzzleloader. I settled on my current setup based on a ton of info from this forum (shout out to Sabotloader!!!), as well as other reviews and info I pulled from the internet. Below is a summary of my first range day dialing in the loads and getting the gun sighted in. Just thought I'd share my notes with folks in case they had similar setups and wanted to compare.

~~~~~~~~

I started by loading up from 60 gr weighed of Triple Seven FFFG, shooting three shots, making adjustments to the sights, bumping the charge 5 gr, and rinse/repeat. I topped out at 75 gr before settling back to 70 gr. The best groups were at 65-70 gr and opened up at 75. I was pushing 1500 fps (1488, 1496, 1490) @ 75 gr which I felt was a bit overkill for the kick that it came with not to mention the group started opening up. I didn't setup the chrono until the end of the day because I was focused more on grouping than speed while I was working through the chargers so I don't have velocities for 60 gr and 65 gr shots. The shots I did chrono at 70 gr and 75 gr averaged ~1435 fps and ~1490 fps, respectively.

~~~~~ General Data~~~~~~
Partly Sunny
Temp - 80 F
Elevation - 5300 ft
Baro Pressure - 29.97 inHg
Humidity - 30 %
Muzzleloader sighted in @ 100 yards
Knight Ultra Lite .50 cal western
Western Precision Fiber Optic Muzzleloading sights
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~ Best Load ~~~~~~
CCI No. 11 percussion caps
460 gr. No Excuses - .503
Ox-Yoke Dry Wonder Wads: 5000D - .50 cal
Hodgdon Triple Seven FFFG - 70 gr weighed (~76 gr volume measure)
Shooting ~1435 fps (1432, 1437, 1440)
Grouped ~3" @ 100 yards (3 shot).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~ Shooting/Cleaning Sequence ~~~~~~
First shot:

1. Run dry cleaning cloth down to bottom of gun
2. Flip dry cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
3. Fire two primers with ramrod/cloth at bottom
4. Load 70 gr weighed (~76 gr volume measured) Triple Seven FFFG
5. Place Dry Wonder Wad flush over muzzle
6. Load 460 gr No excuses
7. Seat bullet and Wonder Wad at same time.
8. Set primer tight and shoot

Every additional shot:

1. Run presoaked cleaning cloth down barrel
2. Flip presoaked cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
3. Run dry cleaning cloth down barrel
4. Flip dry cleaning cloth and run down barrel again
5. Fire two primers with ramrod/cloth at bottom of barrel
6. Load 70 gr weighed (~76 grn volume measured) Triple Seven FFFG
7. Place Dry Wonder Wad flush over muzzle
8. Load 460 gr No excuses
9. Seat bullet and Wonder Wad at same time.
10. Set primer tight and shoot

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this post was informative for folks. Also, thanks again Sabotloader (and other folks on this forum) for the wealth of ML information on the forum.

I'm very close to this with mine. I'm shooting 500's and 70 grs. I'm getting moa to sub depending on the target/lighting.

 

[Idaho_archer4]

Funkymusic and tdcour, what muzzle velocities are you getting with those loads? My best guesses using the Shooter app show my drop from 100-200 being ~ 21" (zeroed at 100 yds). I feel like this is probably ball park with shooting a heavier bullet at slower speeds than you two. I packed up due to weather last weekend before I could start reaching out to 200+.

 

[Idaho_archer4]

I shot $200 worth of components through my knight UL and then sold the thing. Glas some of you guys are getting yours to shoot worth a crap.

Bummer to hear! With my limited experience with MLs, I'm pretty impressed with the finish and quality of the Knight. What did you end up getting after the Knight?

 

[Idaho_archer4]

Last question for folks.

What is everyone using for #11 percussion caps and nipple combos? There were a handful of times this weekend I pulled the trigger and the percussion cap wouldn't fire, I would run the action, and the cap went off 100% of the time on the second trigger pull. I assumed it was from me sitting the percussion cap to loose but I don't know if that was the case. I'm using a inline ML capper and putting a pretty significant amount of force on the cap when I set it.

Thinking back, I'm not 100% confident I backed out the the secondary safety all the way, so this might have been the issues. I'd say I'm 98% certain I backed the safety all the way out but I can't rule it completely out. Also, maybe I'm not setting the cap properly?

Either way, I'm wondering if other folks have experienced the cap misfire and if changing up the cap (maybe to #11 mag's or RWS 1075+) with a different nipple might eliminate this from happening. Also, are there better cap/nipple combos folks recommend for better weather proofing and/or cap fitment?

Sorry in advance for the novice questions!

 

[MallardSX2]

Bummer to hear! With my limited experience with MLs, I'm pretty impressed with the finish and quality of the Knight. What did you end up getting after the Knight?

CVA OPTIMA MR NITRIDE.

LOVE IT.

 

[tdcour]

I have no idea on muzzle velocity. The Thor website shows I should be around 1900-1950 with my load and their 300 grain ballistic tip, but I haven't checked that and probably never will to be honest. I just try to shoot a bunch to get my bullet drop. I also shot with a scope on (after burning about 30 rounds) and got my load dialed in then shot to figure out bullet drop.

My BH is lot 43 if I remember correctly.

@MallardSX2 it took me a lot of messing around to get where I am. I got the new plug from BeStill which made a HUGE difference. I still don't like buying a 1000 dollar gun then having to dump more money in it, but with a scope I was shooting 1-1.5" groups at 100. I honestly think the rifle will shoot way better than I'm capable of now. I understand your frustration though. I didn't have as many problems with the TC I used to shoot. I did a lot of looking at the MR before settling on Knight.

 

[tdcour]

Last question for folks.

What is everyone using for #11 percussion caps and nipple combos? There were a handful of times this weekend I pulled the trigger and the percussion cap wouldn't fire, I would run the action, and the cap went off 100% of the time on the second trigger pull. I assumed it was from me sitting the percussion cap to loose but I don't know if that was the case. I'm using a inline ML capper and putting a pretty significant amount of force on the cap when I set it.

Thinking back, I'm not 100% confident I backed out the the secondary safety all the way, so this might have been the issues. I'd say I'm 98% certain I backed the safety all the way out but I can't rule it completely out. Also, maybe I'm not setting the cap properly?

Either way, I'm wondering if other folks have experienced the cap misfire and if changing up the cap (maybe to #11 mag's or RWS 1075+) with a different nipple might eliminate this from happening. Also, are there better cap/nipple combos folks recommend for better weather proofing and/or cap fitment?

Sorry in advance for the novice questions!

I'm no use here. I've only hunted where I can use BH209 and Shotshell primers. That secondary safety is something I really need to get used to as well.

 

[Wrench]

I only shoot musket caps with mine.

 

[MallardSX2]

I have no idea on muzzle velocity. The Thor website shows I should be around 1900-1950 with my load and their 300 grain ballistic tip, but I haven't checked that and probably never will to be honest. I just try to shoot a bunch to get my bullet drop. I also shot with a scope on (after burning about 30 rounds) and got my load dialed in then shot to figure out bullet drop.

My BH is lot 43 if I remember correctly.

@MallardSX2 it took me a lot of messing around to get where I am. I got the new plug from BeStill which made a HUGE difference. I still don't like buying a 1000 dollar gun then having to dump more money in it, but with a scope I was shooting 1-1.5" groups at 100. I honestly think the rifle will shoot way better than I'm capable of now. I understand your frustration though. I didn't have as many problems with the TC I used to shoot. I did a lot of looking at the MR before settling on Knight.

I ended up cracking the stock on mine I shot it so much. Literally, I had to send the gun back to knight.

They provided me an aftermarket breech plug because the breech plug I had wouldn’t work with Blackhorn 209 and they adamantly argued the fact until they were blue in the face but eventually I won, and they drilled out my breech plug for me and sent it back to me. the trigger also got messed up when the stock cracked and they ended up replacing that with a Timney trigger for me. It took a long time to get a hold of them in the customer service was great once I was able to finally get in touch with someone, but the upfront communication process was crappy to say the least.

Also,I hated having to tear the entire gun down to clean it, and it was always such a mess to clean so like I said pretty gun, lightweight gun, but it just wasn’t worth it to me.

 

[tdcour]

I hate to hear that. It has been a change for sure on the cleaning process of the Knight compared to a break open. Glad you found a gun that works for you though!

 

[huntercole]

CVA OPTIMA MR NITRIDE.

LOVE IT.

I'm about to the same point with my older knight. I tried several bullets and powders last summer and couldn't get anything to shoot decent. I have some more bullets to try now. If those don't working I'm planning on an optima as well.

 

[MallardSX2]

I'm about to the same point with my older knight. I tried several bullets and powders last summer and couldn't get anything to shoot decent. I have some more bullets to try now. If those don't working I'm planning on an optima as well.

I had a knight LR hunter as well. I shot $300 worth of components out of that gun before I figured out what it liked. After I figured it out, I was good to go but I was so pissed that I sold it to my father-in-law. Its the gun in the photo below. He wouldn't trade the gun for anything, but he's not the one who got the hell pounded out of him figuring the rifle out either. He was handed a functioning accurate gun. lol

Knights are a GIANT PITA to clean as well.



Love my CVA Optima MR.

I would NEVER go back to a knight. But thats just me.

 

[Wrench]

Last question for folks.

What is everyone using for #11 percussion caps and nipple combos? There were a handful of times this weekend I pulled the trigger and the percussion cap wouldn't fire, I would run the action, and the cap went off 100% of the time on the second trigger pull. I assumed it was from me sitting the percussion cap to loose but I don't know if that was the case. I'm using a inline ML capper and putting a pretty significant amount of force on the cap when I set it.

Thinking back, I'm not 100% confident I backed out the the secondary safety all the way, so this might have been the issues. I'd say I'm 98% certain I backed the safety all the way out but I can't rule it completely out. Also, maybe I'm not setting the cap properly?

Either way, I'm wondering if other folks have experienced the cap misfire and if changing up the cap (maybe to #11 mag's or RWS 1075+) with a different nipple might eliminate this from happening. Also, are there better cap/nipple combos folks recommend for better weather proofing and/or cap fitment?

Sorry in advance for the novice questions!

I have made the mistake of not backing the safety off.

A low down cheap and dirty trick is to use a srp and a piece of tubing to hold it.