Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[Rorschach]

Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308) *Photos/Links Added*

Brand spanking new guy here. I've perused the site for a few days looking for info, but wanted to ask the question in a way that it doesn't appear to have been asked, and also to get relatively fresh information, due to each manufacturer going through periods where lemons are more or less common, working out bugs, etc.

I'm looking to get a lighter weight hunting rifle, as the one I use now comes in at about 12lbs fully loaded. Purpose would be something that I can still hunt using, ambush hunt across a mid-sized field using (~400yds), or something of the like.

I'd like to stick with 308 (streamlines my logistics; not interested in adding a new rifle caliber, unless someone can make a very compelling argument as to why 308 sucks and caliber XYZ is at least 2x better, for instance), and only want to shoot factory ammo; Fusion, Superformance, etc. I do reload for 308, but am not considering reloading for hunting ammo, as long as there is a possibility of attaining, at worst, ~1moa accuracy from an out-of-the-box rifle.

The options I've narrowed it down to are:
1) Kimber Montana
2) Tikka T3x Superlite
3) Savage 16 LWH

I'd like to keep just the rifle to < $1500ish, but would be willing to go up to $1900-$2000ish possibly, again, if there is a really good argument as to why this would allow for a clearly superior option.

The most important selection criterion is accuracy, and the second most important is weight. Besides these, I don't care about plastic/metal this or that, subjective 'feel' of the stock, etc.; as long as it shoots accurately and is "lightweight".

Thank you for the assistance. I've only known about this forum for a few weeks, and have enjoyed gleaning knowledge from the expertise of folks here.

Edit: Adding links to all range session posts for quick access
Kimber 1 (1/27/17)
Kimber 2 (1/29/17)
Kimber 3 (1/31/17)
Tikka 1 (2/4/17)
Tikka 2 (2/6/17)
Tikka 3 (2/8/17)
Kimber 4 (2/9/17)
Kimber 5 (2/14/17)

 

[belly-deep]

You'll get a couple dozen posts telling you to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor. Just ignore them. A .308 is fine for what you are asking.

I only own a Kimber, not the other two rifles you mention.

If you're looking to slim down from a 12 lb rifle, going to a Kimber is pretty extreme. They are very light, which is great. But that makes them a little more difficult to shoot, especially in the field.

A 7-8 lb rifle, with scope on board is probably going to feel pretty light compared to a 12 lb-er, and will be easier to shoot.

I love my Kimbers for long days in steep hills. But if it is not going to be a real tough day, then I prefer to carry a slightly heavier rifle.

Of course, you can always saddle a Kimber with a 30mm scope, which adds weight and helps the rifle settle down a bit.

 

[wapitibob]

Couldn't give me another Montana. I was a $1,000 sucker and got 1 1/2" on a good day if I fed it by hand so it wouldn't jam.
I'd go Tikka myself unless you like to gamble.

 

[MTHunter20]

I've been looking at these also for pretty much the same purpose as you. I'm leaning toward the Savage LWH. I have a 116 that's been a great rifle so I'm already a Savage fan anyway. But you always hear great things about Tikkas. The whole short action cartridge in a long action receiver is what turns me off on the Tikkas. I've also considered a synthetic stainless Remington Model 7. But it's heavier and you don't hear much about Remington's quality these days. I wouldn't buy a Montana though. I think they're too expensive for the gamble you take to get a good one. At least with all the other lightweight guns on the market now.

 

[kpk]

I have both Tikkas and Savages. Tikka IMO is much more refined. The bolt is like glass on glass, they feed perfect, and they shoot well. Savages tend to flat out shoot, but the ones I have (308 model 10 HS-precision and a 116 7mm mag) don't always feed so well and the bolt isn't all that smooth.

Tikka parts are insanely expensive if you ever need to replace something (aftermarket support has gotten much better the last couple years so this is becoming less of a problem). Savage on the other hand constantly changes their configurations.

At the end of the day they'll probably both shoot better than most people are capable of once you find the load they like.

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks a lot for the responses. And thank you for being patient and still responding even though there are so many similar threads in existence.

I'd thought it might have been the case that in recent years Kimber had gotten its act together on the Montana and it might possibly be less of a gamble, but I guess not, by the sound of it.

Is the T3x still using an LA receiver (vs. the T3's)? Didn't know that. Maybe the upshot is that if I ever get it rebarreled, I have the option of going to an LA cartridge. What is the downside to having an SA round in an LA receiver?

One thing I'm not worried about is the set-up being too light; I will learn how to shoot the thing accurately, if it is possible.

 

[luke moffat]

I have owned 4 Kimbers all shot atleast something better than 1.5" which is plenty as I don't shoot beyond 400 yards. They are the most expensive option but they are also by far the lightest. With your budget of $1900 I would just get a Kimber Mountain ascent with a leupold VX-2 3-9x40 and have a rifle that weighs all up with ring s and a scope about what the Tikka and Savage weigh in at naked.

I also like the 308 wi. As well have seen it used to efficiently kill everything up here I Alaska including moose, grizzlies, and brown bear. In fact of all the critters I have seen shot up here even with magnums I can't think of a time when the 308 wouldn't have worked just as well.


In reality any of the 3 rifles you mentioned will feel like a feather compared to your current rig. All will work just fine it has more to do with your preference. As stated above the Tikka long action only makes me want a 30-06 in that action just cause there is no gain going short action in a Tikka. Good luck in your search.

 

[Yellowknife]

I've always wondered why using a SA rd in the Tikka is an issue, but no one ever complains or even mentions using a '06 length round in the H&H length 700 or 70? At least with the Tikka's it has a bolt stop so you have a true short action stroke. With the Remingtons, you work the action the full RUM/H&H distance regardless of what round you have in it. For that matter, how come we are all ok with .223's in actions that were designed for belted magnum case diameters?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a true SA Tikka and suspect it will get built someday... but it's always seemed odd that people consider some things an issue and not others.

Back to the original question though. Money not a consideration, and I'd pick the Kimber for a .308 and a Tikka as second choice if the dollars mattered. If considering a Ascent or the Savage, I'd try the action before you buy. The one I played with I found the heavily fluted bolt to be a lot less than smooth. Might have just been that sample, but would personally just save the money and buy a standard Montana and lighten it up myself If I thought I needed too.

Any ultralight is going to be harder to shoot from field positions (basic physics, less weight = decreased inertia = harder to hold steady), but for regular hunting ranges lots of people manage to do it well enough.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I have owned 4 Kimbers all shot atleast something better than 1.5" which is plenty as I don't shoot beyond 400 yards. They are the most expensive option but they are also by far the lightest. With your budget of $1900 I would just get a Kimber Mountain ascent with a leupold VX-2 3-9x40 and have a rifle that weighs all up with ring s and a scope about what the Tikka and Savage weigh in at naked.

I also like the 308 wi. As well have seen it used to efficiently kill everything up here I Alaska including moose, grizzlies, and brown bear. In fact of all the critters I have seen shot up here even with magnums I can't think of a time when the 308 wouldn't have worked just as well.


In reality any of the 3 rifles you mentioned will feel like a feather compared to your current rig. All will work just fine it has more to do with your preference. As stated above the Tikka long action only makes me want a 30-06 in that action just cause there is no gain going short action in a Tikka. Good luck in your search.

I fully agree. I currently own three Kimber's, two Montana's and a MA and they are all sub MOA shooting rifles as long as I do my part. For what it's worth, the first Montana I bought is chambered in .300 WSM and I purchased it when they first went into production. I still have that rifle and it's always been very accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MTHunter20]

I don't think there's a major downside to a SA cartridge in a LA receiver. It's just like Luke said, there's no gain. If I'm gonna have the length of a LA it'll be chambered in a long action cartridge for me.

 

[luke moffat]

I've always wondered why using a SA rd in the Tikka is an issue, but no one ever complains or even mentions using a '06 length round in the H&H length 700 or 70? At least with the Tikka's it has a bolt stop so you have a true short action stroke. With the Remingtons, you work the action the full RUM/H&H distance regardless of what round you have in it. For that matter, how come we are all ok with .223's in actions that were designed for belted magnum case diameters?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a true SA Tikka and suspect it will get built someday... but it's always seemed odd that people consider some things an issue and not others.

Back to the original question though. Money not a consideration, and I'd pick the Kimber for a .308 and a Tikka as second choice if the dollars mattered. If considering a Ascent or the Savage, I'd try the action before you buy. The one I played with I found the heavily fluted bolt to be a lot less than smooth. Might have just been that sample, but would personally just save the money and buy a standard Montana and lighten it up myself If I thought I needed too.

Any ultralight is going to be harder to shoot from field positions (basic physics, less weight = decreased inertia = harder to hold steady), but for regular hunting ranges lots of people manage to do it well enough.

Not an issue just no gain really to getting a short action in a long action gun.

I believe people don't complain much about the 30-06 on an H&H action because they aren't looking to make these guns as lightweight. If looking for weight savings it makes sense to get the correct sized action in my mind atleast.

I agree my Montanas are a bit tougher to hold as steady off hand than my 9 pound Ruger 338 WM. But I haven't had an issue taking game with ultralight rifles either as I keep my shooting inside 400 yards. Granted I grew up shooting a Model 7 .308 until I was 21 so I guess I was more or less used to short barreled lightweight rifles from the start and didn't know any different. For me personally I want the lightest weight tool I can get for the job and still kill the critters I need to at the ranges I hunt.

One benefit to the Tikka short action in a long action rifle is changing the bolt stop and swapping to a 30-06 magazine to be able to load short action rounds to a much longer total COAL which is kinda a cool option for sure.

As you know more than most on here and including myself, its hard to be a Tikka 30-06 though.....cause its sized to the correct action length

 

[Rorschach]

So, is it the Kimber Montana's specifically that are a risk in the accuracy department, and the higher-end Kimbers are fine?

Are the Savages and/or Tikka's as much of a risk in this regard?

What is there to push me towards a Kimber over the Savage/Tikka besides weight?

Edit: Sorry, I missed a few posts in there. Looked at the Kimber Mtn Ascent and it has a brake. Not crazy about that, but if it'll shoot, no big deal.

I'd consider my goal unmet if I purchased any of these rifles and could only get 1.5" out of it with factory ammo. Hoping that's not the case.

 

[luke moffat]

So, is it the Kimber Montana's specifically that are a risk in the accuracy department, and the higher-end Kimbers are fine?

Are the Savages and/or Tikka's as much of a risk in this regard?

What is there to push me towards a Kimber over the Savage/Tikka besides weight?

One more in the mag box if that makes a difference to you.

Other than that save your pennies and get a Tikka and keep that Kimber demand down to keep the prices from going up

 

[Yellowknife]

Not an issue just no gain really to getting a short action in a long action gun.

I believe people don't complain much about the 30-06 on an H&H action because they aren't looking to make these guns as lightweight. If looking for weight savings it makes sense to get the correct sized action in my mind at least.

I agree my Montanas are a bit tougher to hold as steady off hand than my 9 pound Ruger 338 WM. But I haven't had an issue taking game with ultralight rifles either as I keep my shooting inside 400 yards. Granted I grew up shooting a Model 7 .308 until I was 21 so I guess I was more or less used to short barreled lightweight rifles from the start and didn't know any different. For me personally I want the lightest weight tool I can get for the job and still kill the critters I need to at the ranges I hunt.

One benefit to the Tikka short action in a long action rifle is changing the bolt stop and swapping to a 30-06 magazine to be able to load short action rounds to a much longer total COAL which is kinda a cool option for sure.

As you know more than most on here and including myself, its hard to be a Tikka 30-06 though.....cause its sized to the correct action length

Pretty much agree with all of that. I'd pick a LA round for a Tikka myself (and did). But if I was stuck on a .308, I wouldn't let it bother me too much. That said, the Kimbers are sized perfectly for that round, and would be a top choice if that was what I was looking for. I like the swing safety better on the Kimber than the rocker on the Tikka too.

There are plenty of people (at least on the internet) who would prefer to buy a heavier remington/winchester/savage SA over a lighter Tikka LA just on principle though. Whatever. If it makes a guy happy, it doesn't bother me, but I've just never heard anybody pass over a 700 LA for the same reason?

 

[Rorschach]

Okay, then my question becomes Montana vs. Mtn Ascent.

I see that the Ascent has a brake. In my ignorance, I will say that this isn't something I care about one way or the other (provided it can be replaced by a thread protector, if I so please).

Thanks so much for all of this discussion, again.

 

[luke moffat]

Okay, then my question becomes Montana vs. Mtn Ascent.

I see that the Ascent has a brake. In my ignorance, I will say that this isn't something I care about one way or the other (provided it can be replaced by a thread protector, if I so please).

Thanks so much for all of this discussion, again.

Here is a review my brother did comparing my Kimber 308 Montana to another buddies .308 Mountain Ascent.

Kimber Rifles - The Alaska Life

 

[Thinkingman]

Buy the Tikka and spend the difference in price on glass.

 

[luke moffat]

Buy the Tikka and spend the difference in price on glass.

Spend it On your binocular glass to be specific. Any old riflescope between $150 and $400 will work for shots to 400 yards and even further win the right skill set....not mine

 

[elkguide]

I own 3 Montanas (.300 WSM - .270 WSM - 7mm-08) and all of them are MOA rifles. The Tikkas and the Savages that I have shot, have all also been very good shooters. The Savages that I have played with weren't as polished from the factory as the Tikkas and Kimbers were but if you want to spend some time with them, they will work up just fine. The Kimbers are the lightest. For me, the Tikkas just don't feel right in my hand as a carry gun.

So if I were in your position, I would get out and at least handle each of them (shoot each of them if you can) and put the good feedback here into the mix and start shooting. As to the .308..... very capable cartridge and if you are happy with it, stay with it. Good luck.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Unabashed Savage fan here. Lighter than the Tikka, heavier than the Kimber, never had a Savage that wouldn't shoot 1moa or better. If it were me that is where I would look...but alas they don't make them left handed.