Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[GKPrice]

Thanks a lot for the responses. And thank you for being patient and still responding even though there are so many similar threads in existence.

I'd thought it might have been the case that in recent years Kimber had gotten its act together on the Montana and it might possibly be less of a gamble, but I guess not, by the sound of it.

Is the T3x still using an LA receiver (vs. the T3's)? Didn't know that. Maybe the upshot is that if I ever get it rebarreled, I have the option of going to an LA cartridge. What is the downside to having an SA round in an LA receiver?

One thing I'm not worried about is the set-up being too light; I will learn how to shoot the thing accurately, if it is possible.

FWIW, Kimber is doing just fine with QC these days - I own, shoot and hunt with both Kimber AND Tikka superlight and although I love both, having read your criteria I would say you "need" a Tikka superlight - my preference is 30.06 (after having owned and hunted with 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win mag AND 1 338 win mag) but if you're already set up for 308 it's never a "bad" choice - I've yet to see any "parts" of a Tikka break but I suppose "if it can happen it will happen" applies - the T3x superlight is a finely balanced rifle that is finished a well as many that cost 2x or 3x more and I've yet to hear anyone say any Tikka T3 or T3x is not accurate, "extremely" accurate is commonly heard or read though - as for the newly released "T3x", the only "improvement" IMO that still deserves attention is the recoil pad and a $35 Aircell Limbsaver prefit takes care of that, also I'd not hunt one without at least one spare magazine in a pocket or pack (I carry 2 preloaded in a leg pocket) $40 ea. -

Maybe someone could chide in on exactly what the "weight penalty" is for having that horribly long action for a vixen of a short length round like the miniscule .308

 

[Muledeerfanatic]

I have a Savage 16 in creedmoor that shoots around .3 with handloads. It weighs about 8.3 lbs with scope. Not super light but I really don't like em super light. Those little skinny light guns are tough to shoot, but I like shooting alot and stretching it out a little.

 

[luke moffat]

Maybe someone could chide in on exactly what the "weight penalty" is for having that horribly long action for a vixen of a short length round like the miniscule .308

If the difference between a .308 Kimber Montana and a 30-06 Kimber Montana is any indication I would guess roughly 6 oz on the Montana platform after you take away 2 oz off the 30-06 due to the the 2" longer barrel. Which if the Tikka super light was 6 oz lighter than it currently is due to having a true short action it'd be even more attractive.

 

[GKPrice]

If the difference between a .308 Kimber Montana and a 30-06 Kimber Montana is any indication I would guess roughly 6 oz on the Montana platform after you take away 2 oz off the 30-06 due to the the 2" longer barrel. Which if the Tikka super light was 6 oz lighter than it currently is due to having a true short action it'd be even more attractive.

Luke, that does sound about right I guess - If the superlight was 6 oz lighter they'd have to rename it the "REALLY superlight", UGH too confusing

 

[Yellowknife]

I'd actually guess it at far less than 6 oz on the action only. The difference between a LA and a SA 700 (action only) is only about 4-5 oz, and that action has a larger diameter, thicker walls, a 30% heavier bolt + steel mag and bottom metal. There is a lot to cut when you shorten a Remington, but I'd be surprised if bobbing the skinny tikka action saved near that much.

Does the 84L have a longer barrel shank or different contour than the 84M? That might account for the difference.

 

[Yellowknife]

Rough math and I come up with a difference of about 2 - 2.5 oz if the Tikka as shortened 0.5" to .308 length.

 

[luke moffat]

Rough math and I come up with a difference of about 2 - 2.5 oz if the Tikka as shortened 0.5" to .308 length.

Does that count taking a 1/2" off the bolt too?

Just trying to find why the long and short action Kimbers are roughly 3 times difference in weight than what you worked out for the Tikka.

 

[Jimbob]

If Kimber was able to shave 6 ounces from a very lightweight 30-06 by going to .308 then I think tikka could also shave more than 2-2.5 from the standard T3 lite.

Maybe by going .308 there are more ways to lighten then just shortening the action. Anyways if Tikka wanted to do it I think they could get it down there but it would cost money I'm sure.

Man, a short action tikka super duper light at the current price point would be awesome.

 

[Yellowknife]

Does that count taking a 1/2" off the bolt too?

Just trying to find why the long and short action Kimbers are roughly 3 times difference in weight than what you worked out for the Tikka.

Yes. Going somewhat from memory here, but I believe a tikka action is 1.2" in diameter on average. Assuming the action and bolt together make a cylinder I get 0.57 cu in from a 1/2" slice. Accounting for the magazine cut, action port, lug recess and firing pin hole, I conservatively reduced that number by 15%. Pretty sure it's more than that, but I had to pick something. So about 0.5 cu in of steel. Stainless steel is about 0.28 lb/cu in x 0.5 in = 0.14 lbs = 2.24 oz. Mag length might account for another few fraction of an oz, but it wouldn't be much.

That's give or take a little bit, but I bet I'm not too far off. I'm all for a true SA Tikka, but now I can see why they don't bother. 1/2" and 2-3 oz isn't exactly a noticeable difference in the hand, and with the shorter bolt stop you can't tell the difference from the shoulder either.

The kimber is more of a mystery to me. Must be stock and barrel differences, because kimber actions are pretty slim.

 

[luke moffat]

Yeah my 84l and 84m stocks are inside of an oz of each other so the difference isn't there.

It would be interesting to know how Kimber saved their weight going from 84L to 84m but they def pull it off.

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks for the input and direct feedback, GK.

Question: can you sell me on a the Superlite over the Montana? You seem very convinced, and I'm wondering why this seems so open-and-shut for you. It can't be weight, since the Tikka weighs a little more. Is there a higher probability of getting a more accurate (with factory ammo) rifle out of a Tikka?

Edit: Also, thanks for the discussion, guys. I'm thoroughly enjoying reading the numerous responses to this thread. Excellent information.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Yeah my 84l and 84m stocks are inside of an oz of each other so the difference isn't there.

It would be interesting to know how Kimber saved their weight going from 84L to 84m but they def pull it off.

Just curious Luke, what were the stock weights? The stock on my .300wsm is 25.7 oz. according to my scale. I haven't weighed the other ones.


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[luke moffat]

Just curious Luke, what were the stock weights? The stock on my .300wsm is 25.7 oz. according to my scale. I haven't weighed the other ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Roughly the same weight as well for the 84m and 84l

 

[GKPrice]

Thanks for the input and direct feedback, GK.

Question: can you sell me on a the Superlite over the Montana? You seem very convinced, and I'm wondering why this seems so open-and-shut for you. It can't be weight, since the Tikka weighs a little more. Is there a higher probability of getting a more accurate (with factory ammo) rifle out of a Tikka?

Edit: Also, thanks for the discussion, guys. I'm thoroughly enjoying reading the numerous responses to this thread. Excellent information.

I just perceive that you may not be sold on as much of a lightweight like the Kimbers are while, to most the superlight is a very light rifle with good ergonomics - As I get longer in the tooth I've softened just a bit on a lot of things, my Tikka superlights just seem to be "nice to live with" but that's not to say that I don't still feel a lighter Kimber has it's place, just not as often for me these days - I've said this before (so bear with me), I hunt a lot with an old friend who shoots a 20 year old Kenny Jarrett .300 that he'll probably have buried with him - each and every time he has cause to hold my Tikka he just shakes his head and mumbles, my point is that it's all relative - so I have "light" and "lighter" to chose from, both will outshoot me, and I've less $$$ in the entire shebang than the cost of most custom rifles - I'm slowly putting together another '06, a Kimber Hunter with a Leupold 6 x 42 fixed, the more I handle it the better it feels

 

[GKPrice]

I just perceive that you may not be sold on as much of a lightweight like the Kimbers are while, to most the superlight is a very light rifle with good ergonomics - As I get longer in the tooth I've softened just a bit on a lot of things, my Tikka superlights just seem to be "nice to live with" but that's not to say that I don't still feel a lighter Kimber has it's place, just not as often for me these days - I've said this before (so bear with me), I hunt a lot with an old friend who shoots a 20 year old Kenny Jarrett .300 that he'll probably have buried with him - each and every time he has cause to hold my Tikka he just shakes his head and mumbles, my point is that it's all relative - so I have "light" and "lighter" to chose from, both will outshoot me, and I've less $$$ in the entire shebang than the cost of most custom rifles - I'm slowly putting together another '06, a Kimber Hunter with a Leupold 6 x 42 fixed, the more I handle it the better it feels

but I'm not sure about the 24" barrel, might lop it off at 22"

 

[Elkfitness]

If you can find a Kimber adirondack on sale, that will be another option for you. Cabelas is closing them out for $1190. I have a Kimber 270wsm as well and this adirondack is the best feeling rifle I've held. Scoped up with a monarch 2.5-10x42 and talley rings, and a muzzle break, she is under 6lbs.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I just got a brand new 2016 montana. I was nervous about playing "kimber roulette" but now I'm looking for another one. The one I got is a 308 and it's shooting well under 1". To say that I'm happy with it is a huge understatement.

I also have a tikka, the benefits of the montana over the tikka are the stock, trigger and of course weight. The tikka stock is very nice and my trigger is as good as any timney I've used.

I had the same question: buy a montana? Or spend 50% more and get the mountain ascent. Like you I wasn't too interested in a brake and 5oz wasn't worth 600 dollars to me, I can just run a few more miles and lose 5oz.

You could check out the new kimber subalpine, seems like an ascent without the brake and the msrp is listed lower than an ascent.

Earlier you said something that implied that the montana isn't a "high end" rifle, I can assure you that the montanas are very high end rifles.

I like the ascents and I'll probably get one at some point but being. My first kimber, not wanting a brake, I decided to save the extra $$$ the ascent would have cost and get a. It better scope, I ended up with a Swarovski z3 for my montana, I couldn't be happier with the set up.

The tikkas are great rifles but in my opinion the draw to them lies within the price. Yes they are great for the price (I paid 700 for my t3x ultra light). But I'm really digging the montana.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Hello,

I'd like to apologize. In my previous post I said thebtikka stock and trigger are very nice, that was supposed to be talking about the kimber stock and trigger.

 

[Rorschach]

Just not as sold on it if there may be something up with the QC, but I'm under the impression now that Kimber's issues with that are behind them for the time being.

I'm very close to letting it rip on a Kimber Montana from Euro Optics. If it doesn't shoot, then oh well, like someone said on here - take a $200 hit on the resell and try again, if it comes to that. A 6lb w/ everything rifle sounds pretty good.

Famous last words and all, but I only have room for one centerfire bolt action in the safe, and I'd like this to be "it". As light as can be, while according with the accuracy standard would be ideal.

I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate the advice as I vacillate on the choices. Thanks a lot.

 

[elkguide]

Room in the safe for only one???????????????

What language are you speaking?