Kifaru or Mystery Ranch? And why?

[fillthefreezer]

Decisions, decisions.
It sounds like if I do decide on Kifaru, the Bikini frame is the way to go?

only reason id say duplex is if you pack big awkward loads often or over 100lbs more often than under 55lbs.

 

[Bloodworks]

Guess I should have spent the money and finalized the patent on my Nice frame "weight Jacker" a few years ago...

Hard to polish a turd. Far cry from the packs Dana built his rep on.

 

[Shrek]

My take... The MR is way more durable, the Kifaru is lighter. Take your pick...

I have a MR 6500 and CC, as well as Bikini/Highcamp 7000 set up. The jury is still out with me. I've used the MR for about 8-9 years, usually on multiple 10-14 day trips each year, as well as many day trips. I've only used the Kifaru on two hunts, a 10 day sheep hunt and a quick caribou trip.

My only complaint about the 6500 is the weight. Fits me fine, and can load it up to pack more weight than I ever want to... I've packed tons of meat in it, literally... The pack can handle way more than my knees can.

The main selling point for me with the HC/Bikini over the 6500 is weight. I'm always looking at ways to cut weight. Currently I'm about out of options... my wallet and wife are both happy about that. A side bonus is the j-hook set up. Pretty sweet to have basically unlimited lash points.

I like that the Kifaru is about 4lbs lighter, but so far the durability has been iffy. The belt 'power pull' doesn't work, the belt strap slips sideways when you pull. Sure I can work with it, but for $$$ it should work and Kifaru offered to make it right.

I broke one of the plastic slider buckles on about the second day of real use. One of the shoulder straps has a small tear in it at a seam. Uh what else...

You can't chinch down the pack like you can the 6500, not even close... I was to the point that I was afraid to pull any harder, as I think the webbing would rip off the pack where it's sewn on the body, or at a minimum break another plastic buckle. I'd pull the strap with one hand and cinch it up with the other... can't just horse on the tag end and get it tight like the 6500.

The roll top design doesn't stay closed unless you have a bit of gear in it, otherwise it comes unwound while hiking. Not a big deal, but after crawling through alders and spruce trees, its not cool to find a pack full of leaves and needles.

Better/easier access for a spotter would be a bonus. I didn't think this would bother me that much, but having to dig it out all the time is a serious PITA, and even worse when the pack is half full. I really like that the 6500 has a pocket on the front so I can stuff my spotter/tripod into for easy access. Didn't really like the option of strapping it to the outside of the pack, but I'm sure that would work too.

The lack of a divider between the sleeping bag area and the main section took a bit to get used to, but it worked ok. Having an extra set of chinch straps was a must for me. The lower chinch has to be sucked up to keep heavy stuff from migrating to the bottom of the pack, and if you want to chinch it up you need that center strap.

IMO the Highcamp could benefit from a compression strap across the top, similar to the 6500. I use it quite often, and found myself wishing it was in the HC bag. Sure is nice to have an extra lash point across the top, or to pull the top portion of the bag up to the frame when loaded.

The shoulder strap fit is great on the Bikini, and the pack is very comfortable. Not sure its really any more comfortable than the 6500 though. I ran them both alternating days all summer long with a 60lb bag of sand. No clear winner for me.

Bambistew , you say that Kifaru offered to fix your belt but you have decided not to send it in ? I also see that your bikini high camp is hanging on your shoulders and the belt is loose in your picture , if this is representative of how you used the pack then I'm sure it was far from comfortable. There is no shoulder lift and that defeated the designs purpose. It puzzles me as to why you haven't had Kifaru repair or replace the defective belt and sewing. If the power pull doesn't work and you are working around defective stiching then you have never experienced the true abilities of the bikini. Kifaru was swamped with orders this spring and summer and expanded too quickly. This resulted in some defective products getting shipped. I encourage you to send it back and let them fix the problems. Basing your opinion of performance on a pack that has a critical part not working correctly is unfair to the design and misleading. Get warrantied and then try it. The criticism of quality control is warranted and they are fixing the problems and the new sewers are not so new now.

 

[PMcGee]

I agree Shrek. My hunting partner had some stitching tearing on his bag. We stopped at Kifaru on our way home and they fixed his bag on the spot. They were excellent people to deal with.

 

[marksextra]

just got back from a 2 week trip using my Kifaru Duplex Timberline3 with bikini frame and I can say that I was pleased. I've used the military pack, the old Cabelas Alaskan2 pack and a couple cheapie packs and the Kifaru was a pleasure. The load lifters are unreal. Heck at times, I had to release a little pressure as my hips had so much of the weight. I wasn't used to it.

 

[Jager]

Good report Bambistew, I rate your opinion pretty highly.

Shrek, u get very uptight when anything anti Kifaru gets posted up, are you on a retainer there?

 

[Bambistew]

Bambistew , you say that Kifaru offered to fix your belt but you have decided not to send it in ? I also see that your bikini high camp is hanging on your shoulders and the belt is loose in your picture , if this is representative of how you used the pack then I'm sure it was far from comfortable. There is no shoulder lift and that defeated the designs purpose. It puzzles me as to why you haven't had Kifaru repair or replace the defective belt and sewing. If the power pull doesn't work and you are working around defective stiching then you have never experienced the true abilities of the bikini. Kifaru was swamped with orders this spring and summer and expanded too quickly. This resulted in some defective products getting shipped. I encourage you to send it back and let them fix the problems. Basing your opinion of performance on a pack that has a critical part not working correctly is unfair to the design and misleading. Get warrantied and then try it. The criticism of quality control is warranted and they are fixing the problems and the new sewers are not so new now.

I knew when I posted that picture someone wouldn't be able to help themselves... I've used the Kifaru enough to know what its capable of. I typically adjust my pack to fit until it feels right with the load I'm carrying, sometimes the load lifters are taught and high, others they're not... I adjust them as I go to shift the weight around. Once you pack a few awkward loads you soon realize that the instructional videos on how to fit your pack aren't one size fits all loads/person. I don't have any complaints about the fit or ride. Just said IMO it's not any better than the MR... and I've spent hundreds of miles under one... Take it for what it's worth. If you can't get a MR6500 to ride with a heavy load you don't have it adjusted "right."

I was quoted 2-3 weeks to fix the problem, which is more than reasonable, however... Taking 2-3 weeks to fix a problem hasn't fit into my fall schedule just yet. I will be sending it in once the bears have denned for the year, and I have a break in the action. I'll let them fix all the problems with it. Sure hope this isn't a yearly occurrence. Its a nice pack, and I'm sure they'll make it right.

I bought the HC to save weight. Read everything I could, and himmed and hawed about buying a bag without the spotting scope and sleeping bag compartment... The only thing that I really miss is the spotting scope compartment, the rest I can live with/out.

 

[Shrek]

Jager , no I'm not affiliated with Kifaru other than being a customer at full price. Bambistew stated his power pull belt wouldn't work properly and didn't have it replaced and then posted a picture of a loaded down bikini with what appears to be a belt not tight enough to hold the weight in the proper position. To me it appeared that he was basing his opinion of performance on a defective belt. It's regrettable that Kifaru built the defective belts and other problems in the first place but not allowing them to fix them and then commenting on performance based on a defective parts is regrettable too. Bottom line though is Kifaru should have never let the bad apples out the door in the first place and there wouldn't be this discussion.

 

[Jager]

Cheers mate, you sure are a loyal customer.

Good pics Bambistew, love the moose rack, any more pics from that hunt?

 

[Benny M]

A few mates and myself will be putting a couple of Kifaru frames and bags, as well as a couple of MR packs through their paces on the hill, with an ALICE thrown in, we will all use and abuse each pack and see how we all compare, good chance we will all have a different opinion on what is the most comfortable.

There is a lot of interest in US hunting packs here in Aust. at the moment, so should be good to try a few makes out at the same time and give some honest feedback.

Looking forward to it! The proof will be in the pudding...

My take... The MR is way more durable, the Kifaru is lighter. Take your pick...

My only complaint about the 6500 is the weight. Fits me fine, and can load it up to pack more weight than I ever want to... I've packed tons of meat in it, literally... The pack can handle way more than my knees can.

The main selling point for me with the HC/Bikini over the 6500 is weight. I'm always looking at ways to cut weight. Currently I'm about out of options... my wallet and wife are both happy about that.

I like that the Kifaru is about 4lbs lighter, but so far the durability has been iffy. The belt 'power pull' doesn't work, the belt strap slips sideways when you pull. Sure I can work with it, but for $$$ it should work and Kifaru offered to make it right.

I broke one of the plastic slider buckles on about the second day of real use. One of the shoulder straps has a small tear in it at a seam. Uh what else...

Amen on all counts there mate. My Kif experience has been far good with ridiculous quality control issues out of the box on several items before any field use thus making me very reluctant to field it for any length of time too far from civilisation. However after using the MR 6500 & Mountain Ruck the weight & lack of load lifters on the shorter packs leaves me searching for more, although the new lifter jigger looks interesting.

Paradox Packs looks promising.

Bambistew , you say that Kifaru offered to fix your belt but you have decided not to send it in ?

It puzzles me as to why you haven't had Kifaru repair or replace the defective belt and sewing. If the power pull doesn't work and you are working around defective stiching then you have never experienced the true abilities of the bikini. Kifaru was swamped with orders this spring and summer and expanded too quickly. This resulted in some defective products getting shipped.

Basing your opinion of performance on a pack that has a critical part not working correctly is unfair to the design and misleading. Get warrantied and then try it. The criticism of quality control is warranted and they are fixing the problems and the new sewers are not so new now.

They failed miserably & despite comments suggesting my experience was 'unique' I know it wasn't, & have LOST utmost respect for them for continuing to take a LOT of money from a LOT of people & ship out a LOT of substandard equipment to blokes that rely on their kit out in the boonies miles from nowhere.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Every company is going to issues from time to time with quality. It's how they take care of it that matters to me.

I think Kifaru does a great job when it comes to fixing the issues.

I had some issues with one of their packs recently and they sent me a brand new one without interrupting my season at all.

 

[Mudd Foot]

My apologies if the below statements have been made before, AND if they appear flippant. (What a wind-up huh?)

With all of the aftermarket frame enhancements available for the NICE (particularly from folks not connected to MR, and recently MR itself), it seem that this is an indication of a fairly widespread issue. Please, I'm trying to carefully choose my words here so as to not offend anyone.

One could argue that this is merely a marketing-hype response to internet nay-saying, but given that the target market is a tiny niche within a niche; and a relatively small amount of money can be made with the aftermarket attachment, that there must be some validity to the concern.

For me it was simple physics AND direct experience: I carried the ALICE in my military days, and bought a MOLLE gen III when it first hit the surplus stores. These systems are similar in height to the NICE. My experience with both was negative. After a ton of research, I purchased a Deuter pack with longer stays and a light overall weight. While it wasn't a hunting pack, it has the same load carrying features that are in question in this thread.

After I broke my neck, my decision was to follow the proven-to-ME engineering found in the Deuter. Why did I choose Kifaru sight unseen among all of the high-frame packs available? The shortest, non-flippant intended answer can be found in Patrick's essays on the Kifaru forums.

Perhaps an empirical study of measurable, non-anecdotal attributes should be started? Seems like something we are all searching for anyway with all of the comparison discussion, and threads dedicated to comparing pack performance. While these are helpful, the question of leverage-to-stay-height isn't addressed in a quantifiable way.

 

[Shrek]

BennyM , your experience is not shared by thousands of very happy Kifaru customers. You throw around the around the term " a lot " and insinuate that Kifaru is wholesale ripping poeple off. That is not born out by the market or mine or my friends experience. Did Kifaru refuse to try and make it right to you ? It is unfortunate that you had so much trouble ( I saw your post on the Kifaru forum ) but unlike your experience mine and most other people's experience has been great.

 

[tipsntails7]

I will say this, I have heard a lot more about issues coming from kifaru in the last few months, and in all fairness to shrek, that bag is sagging pretty Bad. The duplex to me is the most comfertable frame I've tried, and will be gettin one as soon as funds allow it. With that said, when I spend upwards of 700 for a pack to me there is no excuse for it not to be flawless.

 

[MattB]

I'd be interested in hearing the specific quality control issues Benny experienced, and I am sure Kifaru would as well. I have owned a number of Kifaru packs over the past 10+ years (Gen 1 Longhunter, Timberline 1, Late Season, KU 5200, DT3 and most recently a Highcamp 7000/bikini), and have experienced exactly 1 QC issue - which incidentally had no impact on the pack performance (the seam between the front pockets on the DT3 bag was not sewn all the way through to seperate the 2 pockets). Add to that a number of accessories I own which have been free from defects, I am surprised by Benny's experience being so vastly different from mine.

I have only owned one MR pack (Bighorn) and had no problems with it either, but sold it because the suspension was not nearly as comfortable for me and the pack was quite heavy for volume. The MR tri-zipper entry configuration is excellent, and I have toyed with buying a Longbow or their larger version to attach to my bikini frame for perhaps the best of both worlds.

 

[MattB]

rhunter424, thanks for posting - sounds like Benny had a bad string of luck in getting a number of sub-standard products in a row. I'd be upset about that for sure, but I am not sure it justifies the claim that Kifaru ships a lot of substandard equipment.

 

[Bambistew]

Bambistew stated his power pull belt wouldn't work properly and didn't have it replaced and then posted a picture of a loaded down bikini with what appears to be a belt not tight enough to hold the weight in the proper position. To me it appeared that he was basing his opinion of performance on a defective belt. It's regrettable that Kifaru built the defective belts and other problems in the first place but not allowing them to fix them and then commenting on performance based on a defective parts is regrettable too. Bottom line though is Kifaru should have never let the bad apples out the door in the first place and there wouldn't be this discussion.

I don't recall stating anything about performance suffering because of the belt, nor did I mean to imply such. The power pull doesn't work because of poor QC. I'm still smart enough to know how to cinch a belt tight without it.

Thanks for the fit lesson, this was my first backpacking experience...

Weight aside, IMO this pack performs no better than the 6500. YMMV

 

[Shrek]

Bambistew , I apologize . I may have read more into your post than was there. It would be interesting to hear if a properly functioning belt makes any difference. Between the belt and the picture I assumed more than was actually stated. Hope you get the belt and shoulder strap warrantied and find it works better . Good hunting.

 

[Jager]

Justin, your opening sentence may have merit, but herin lies the issue with any product that costs a lot of money, a customer shouldn't have to consider how a company is going to look after them if a product is less than acceptable when forking over the dollars, the product should be A1 in the first place.

Anyone that has done a few yards with packs on their backs in the boonies, can see that Bambistews pack has a lot of weight in it, and it would continually have needed adjustment, simple physics again.

A heavy pack is a heavy pack, pure and simple, it doesn't matter what make or model it is, it will not magically turn a 100 pound load into a 50 pound load. Yes, some are more comfortable for certain people than others.

When we read pack comparison's do we truly get a good indication of the situation the pack has indured? What some hunters call a hardcore trip into the mountains, other hunters would call it a stroll around the block, it really is all relative. Hunters should refrain from buying packs on Joe Bloggs advice that it is just great and carries well, they need to try each and every consideration on, and even then it is difficult. Tbh the best packs out there for carrying probably come from the mountaineering market, however, these same packs simply won't hold up to the rigours of hunting.

 

[Jager]

Looking forward to it! The proof will be in the pudding...

You get the heavy pack though...

Justin, your opening sentence may have merit, but herin lies the issue with any product that costs a lot of money, a customer shouldn't have to consider how a company is going to look after them if a product is less than acceptable when forking over the dollars, the product should be A1 in the first place.

Anyone that has done a few yards with packs on their backs in the boonies, can see that Bambistews pack has a lot of weight in it, and it would continually have needed adjustment, simple physics again.

A heavy pack is a heavy pack, pure and simple, it doesn't matter what make or model it is, it will not magically turn a 100 pound load into a 50 pound load. Yes, some are more comfortable for certain people than others.

When we read pack comparison's do we truly get a good indication of the situation the pack has indured? What some hunters call a hardcore trip into the mountains, other hunters would call it a stroll around the block, it really is all relative. Hunters should refrain from buying packs on Joe Bloggs advice that it is just great and carries well, they need to try each and every consideration on, and even then it is difficult. Tbh the best packs out there for carrying probably come from the mountaineering market, however, these same packs simply won't hold up to the rigours of hunting.