Kibler Woodsrunner .54 Kit Assembly

mgray said:
What will the wood oil look like? Glossy like a varnish, or more subtle, like a matte finish?
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In my research it seems like you can make it look glossy or matte. It just depends how much you rub it back with wool/scotch brite. I am going for more of a matte finish.
 
Finally getting around to posting final photos here. Can take a few more detailed photos upon request. Overall, I learned a ton during the process and am extremely happy with the end result. Excited to get to the range and see how it shoots!

Slightly concerned about the sights being loose but plan on using a punch to widen the edges of the sight and hopefully it snugs down. Last step will be sighting in and cutting off excess material on front sight.
 

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I have only gotten a chance to shooting the Woodsrunner a few times and try out 4-5 different patch and ball combos. So far, it seems to like 0.53 RB with 0.018 pillow ticking patch, spit lubed. Accuracy continues to go up with increased powder charge. Currently shot up to 110gr 3F Swiss. Need to dedicate a range day solely to getting it dialed in because it takes so long to get everything prepped, swabbed, loaded, fired, repeat, etc. Sure does make you respect the old timers able to shoot these things quickly! Currently 4-6 inches high at 50 yards and need to stretch it out to 100 yards to see where it's hitting at for final zero once I land on a load.
 
Broadhead said:
I have only gotten a chance to shooting the Woodsrunner a few times and try out 4-5 different patch and ball combos. So far, it seems to like 0.53 RB with 0.018 pillow ticking patch, spit lubed. Accuracy continues to go up with increased powder charge. Currently shot up to 110gr 3F Swiss. Need to dedicate a range day solely to getting it dialed in because it takes so long to get everything prepped, swabbed, loaded, fired, repeat, etc. Sure does make you respect the old timers able to shoot these things quickly! Currently 4-6 inches high at 50 yards and need to stretch it out to 100 yards to see where it's hitting at for final zero once I land on a load.
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Holy moly that is a huge load of 3f! Did you happen to measure the speed on that?
 
I'm going to test 120-150gr 2f swiss with my 58 after my powder arrives. That 150gr is going to hurt. My 135gr 2f schuetzen load certainly doesn't feel good
 
I was surprised at how tame the 100gr of 3F felt with the brass butt plate. I will also likely try 2F to see if accuracy improves. I originally started with a 0.10 Cabela's lubed patch, 0.535 ball, and 75gr 3F and there was no group to speak of. The 0.018 pillow ticking and 0.530 ball seems to work a lot better and the patch looks more like it should. Need to experiment with various lubes as I don't want to use a water-based lube for hunting loads.
 
Broadhead said:
I was surprised at how tame the 100gr of 3F felt with the brass butt plate. I will also likely try 2F to see if accuracy improves. I originally started with a 0.10 Cabela's lubed patch, 0.535 ball, and 75gr 3F and there was no group to speak of. The 0.018 pillow ticking and 0.530 ball seems to work a lot better and the patch looks more like it should. Need to experiment with various lubes as I don't want to use a water-based lube for hunting loads.
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Mine isn't a Kibler and unfortunately has a narrow crescent butt plate without much of a heel extension, so it slides down my shoulder a little and gets me with the corner of the heel. So it hurts. Track of the wolf's mink oil works really well for hunting. I haven't tried anything else, but don't see a need to. It works in hot and cold temperatures.
 
Looks like TOTF is out of the milk oil at the moment but I signed up for email notification. Would also like to get some more Amber Flints for consistency. They spark extremely well in the Kibler lock.
 
Broadhead said:
Looks like TOTF is out of the milk oil at the moment but I signed up for email notification. Would also like to get some more Amber Flints for consistency. They spark extremely well in the Kibler lock.
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Make your own. It's pretty easy. You can google "the muzzleloading forum+make your own moose milk" and there are a few options.
 
Get a can of 3f goex and start at 90grs. Using a 15 thou. Patch and a .530 ball lube with a mix of bees wax, crisco and olive oil use a good sharp black English flint and prime with a bit of 4f my bet is there’s where it will do its best.
 
All great advice, thank you!

My original thought was to run 3F in the barrel and the pan so that I only had to worry about one powder out in the field. Ignition is still extremely fast with 3F so no concerns yet. I just need to get the accuracy up at 100 yards for zero.
 
Broadhead said:
All great advice, thank you!

My original thought was to run 3F in the barrel and the pan so that I only had to worry about one powder out in the field. Ignition is still extremely fast with 3F so no concerns yet. I just need to get the accuracy up at 100 yards for zero.
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I am not a good enough shot to prove this out for sure, but it comes from some very good shooters and I believe it based on my experience. You'll generally see better accuracy the tighter your ball/patch combo is. You may need a short starter and to smooth out the crown with emery paper to prevent cutting patches when loading. If interested, I can send you a link on the instruction.

If there's a Joann's near you, find their 100% denim, take a pair of calipers, and measure the thicknesses by squeezing the top and bottom jaw together as hard as you can just using your thumb and finger on one hand. Their thickest, which I think might be 12oz, comes out at about 0.022 ish for me. That have some called bull denim that is around 0.020ish. These are great, very tight weave, and durable. They work really well for me. The duck canvas also works well and is about 0.020. Anything you get, wash it with soap once, rinse twice , and dry on hot to wash the sizing out.
 
HighUintas said:
I am not a good enough shot to prove this out for sure, but it comes from some very good shooters and I believe it based on my experience. You'll generally see better accuracy the tighter your ball/patch combo is. You may need a short starter and to smooth out the crown with emery paper to prevent cutting patches when loading. If interested, I can send you a link on the instruction.

If there's a Joann's near you, find their 100% denim, take a pair of calipers, and measure the thicknesses by squeezing the top and bottom jaw together as hard as you can just using your thumb and finger on one hand. Their thickest, which I think might be 12oz, comes out at about 0.022 ish for me. That have some called bull denim that is around 0.020ish. These are great, very tight weave, and durable. They work really well for me. The duck canvas also works well and is about 0.020. Anything you get, wash it with soap once, rinse twice , and dry on hot to wash the sizing out.
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I would definitely take the instructions to smoothing out the crown. I don't think it's a current issue because the patches doesn't have holes in them but would be good to check and know how to do.

I did try a 0.535 ball with the 0.018 pillow ticking patch and it was so tight I barely got it down the barrel, so decided against going that tight again. 0.530 ball and 0.018 patch seemed to be the sweet spot for loading (tight but not too tight) and accuracy downrange. Again, I just need to spend some time at the range to see a group at 100 yards. 50-yard group was 4 inches or so.

I did take my calipers into Joanne to pick out the pillow ticking. If I can't get it to group with what I have, I'll go back and snag some of the aforementioned denim or duck.

Attached a photo of my most recent patch (0.530 ball and 0.018 pillow ticking)
 

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Broadhead said:
I would definitely take the instructions to smoothing out the crown. I don't think it's a current issue because the patches doesn't have holes in them but would be good to check and know how to do.

I did try a 0.535 ball with the 0.018 pillow ticking patch and it was so tight I barely got it down the barrel, so decided against going that tight again. 0.530 ball and 0.018 patch seemed to be the sweet spot for loading (tight but not too tight) and accuracy downrange. Again, I just need to spend some time at the range to see a group at 100 yards. 50-yard group was 4 inches or so.

I did take my calipers into Joanne to pick out the pillow ticking. If I can't get it to group with what I have, I'll go back and snag some of the aforementioned denim or duck.

Attached a photo of my most recent patch (0.530 ball and 0.018 pillow ticking)
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It looks pretty good, but appears there's a touch of fraying on the low left portion. I'm not sure if the scorching indicates blowby or not. I'm not so clear on that part of the patch reading.

Thicker patch and 0.010 under ball seems to be what many guys find success with. I haven't tried a 0.005 under ball but don't think I'd be able to load it if I did.
Post #61 for crown smoothing.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=79607.msg787023#msg787023

With a smoothed crown, you can use a pretty darn tight patch and give the starter a hard whack and it will go in without much trouble and without cutting the patch
 
I think GM makes those barrels for Kibler and every GM barrel I have seems to like a 5 thousandth under bore ball and a .015 patch. I would try a .535 ball with a .015 patch and back that 3F Swiss off to 75 grains and work up 5 grains at a time. Or start with 2f Swiss at 80 grains and work up. I really like TOTW mink oil for patch lube.

I shot these groups last week with a Kit Carson Hawken off the bench at 70 yards primitive sights 85 grains Swiss 3F .535 RB .015 patch lubed with mink oil. I like Green Mountain barrels!
 

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Aviator said:
I think GM makes those barrels for Kibler and every GM barrel I have seems to like a 5 thousandth under bore ball and a .015 patch. I would try a .535 ball with a .015 patch and back that 3F Swiss off to 75 grains and work up 5 grains at a time. Or start with 2f Swiss at 80 grains and work up. I really like TOTW mink oil for patch lube.

I shot these groups last week with a Kit Carson Hawken off the bench at 70 yards primitive sights 85 grains Swiss 3F .535 RB .015 patch lubed with mink oil. I like Green Mountain barrels!
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Maybe GM just makes the blank and bores them. I'm not sure on that. But I do know Kibler rifles his barrels with a CNC. I really wanted a GM when I built my 58, but couldn't find one since they quit making them awhile ago
 
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