Kennetrek Heel issues

[Ryan Avery]

Bill, I'm fine with you helping people with their Kenetrek boots issues. But no sales pitches unless you're a sponsor.

Thanks

 

[squeekieslayer]

I spoke to Jim Winjum today at Kenetrek boots reference this issue and he provided the following information to answer your question.

Heel slippage can be an issue with any stiff and supportive mountain boots especially when they are not broken in properly. Every persons heel and foot shape is complicated and completely different much like a finger print is. So it is important to find a boot that fits your foot the very best. The Kenetrek Mountain Boots have always been a very good fitting and performing boot occupying a “sweet” spot with stiff support good enough for most mountain hunting and flexible comfort that most of our customers love. When we first started out in 2006, the boot we offered had a fit rate of approximately 85% meaning that about 15% of our customers could not wear the boots with the same level of comfort as the rest. That “fit rate” was still the highest in the industry but I was not satisfied so Kenetrek set out to improve the fit and redesigned our own lasts. This project was enormously expensive but the results were extraordinary! By making adjustments to the heel pocket of the boots, we were able to increase the fit rate of our customers to an incredible 98%! We also added a premium molded footbed as a standard with our mountain boots making the current Kenetrek Mountain Boots the most comfortable mountain boots on the market. Even with this incredible fitting boot, it is still essential that our customers break the boots in properly before a big hunt. Any time a customer develops huge ugly blisters on their hunt, it tells me they did not properly prepare and wear the boots enough to make certain they fit their feet correctly. A back country sheep hunt is no place to find out your boots don’t fit! This is a matter of personal responsibility and it is like showing up on a hunt without sighting in your rifle then blaming the gun when you miss. Here is an article I wrote on selecting and fitting your mountain boots. http://www.kenetrek.com/fitting-tips-mountainboots.asp

I hope some of this information helps.

Jim Winjum,

Kenetrek Boots

I don't mean to sound rude... But where do you get these "successful fit" numbers? I mean, does it count if someone has to put three layers of duct tape, leukotape, mole skin on their heel to make them work? Do a survey on this site, or any other site, and you will see that there are a HUGE percentage of people like me... statistically a "successful" fit, but not a perfect fit without properly safeguarding your heel first. I personally have a LOT of friends that have all had kennetreks and opted for something different. I won't get into it, but I have a friend that works at Scheels and said he would never own another pair of Kennetreks simply because he hears so many horror stories.

Again, I am not trying to be rude, but I am truly curious why my personal research and experience do not jive with the numbers you post.

Also, I am somewhat offended by the condescending tone taken by Mr. Winjum regarding the break in process. The boots that I have, that STILL TEAR MY HEEL TO SHIT if I don't tape up or take precautions, are 4 years old and have countless hundreds of miles on them. I get huge ugly blisters, and if reaching the 1000 mile mark does not constitute a proper break in period... then I think the problem is with the boot and not the wearer or the process. Yes, some feet will not work, but to say that a blister "tells you that the user didn't properly prepare" is a slap in the face.

I started this thread because I like the stiffness, support, and general comfort that my kennetreks gave me when I taped and protected my heels. I wanted to find a way to make them work. I am friends/colleagues with one of the founders of the company and wanted to support his efforts... blowing off an obvious issue with a product as user error is unacceptable.

Joe

 

[KenetrekBill]

Joe,
I am sure Jim did not mean to sound too pretentious but what I think he meant to say is sometimes a boot just does not fit a person’s foot and it is the responsibility of the wearer to find that out before they are on a 10 day sheep hunt.

Kenetrek Bill

I don't mean to sound rude... But where do you get these "successful fit" numbers? I mean, does it count if someone has to put three layers of duct tape, leukotape, mole skin on their heel to make them work? Do a survey on this site, or any other site, and you will see that there are a HUGE percentage of people like me... statistically a "successful" fit, but not a perfect fit without properly safeguarding your heel first. I personally have a LOT of friends that have all had kennetreks and opted for something different. I won't get into it, but I have a friend that works at Scheels and said he would never own another pair of Kennetreks simply because he hears so many horror stories.

Again, I am not trying to be rude, but I am truly curious why my personal research and experience do not jive with the numbers you post.

Also, I am somewhat offended by the condescending tone taken by Mr. Winjum regarding the break in process. The boots that I have, that STILL TEAR MY HEEL TO SHIT if I don't tape up or take precautions, are 4 years old and have countless hundreds of miles on them. I get huge ugly blisters, and if reaching the 1000 mile mark does not constitute a proper break in period... then I think the problem is with the boot and not the wearer or the process. Yes, some feet will not work, but to say that a blister "tells you that the user didn't properly prepare" is a slap in the face.

I started this thread because I like the stiffness, support, and general comfort that my kennetreks gave me when I taped and protected my heels. I wanted to find a way to make them work. I am friends/colleagues with one of the founders of the company and wanted to support his efforts... blowing off an obvious issue with a product as user error is unacceptable.

Joe

 

[sab]

I bought a pair of Kenetrek 400 gr insulated and after a short break in off I went. Most comfortable boot I could imagine. Couple years later I thought go with what works and forked out the money for a pair of Uninsulated hardscrabble hikers. Put in over 50 miles breaking them in 2-4 miles at a time. First archery backpack in I was so hobbled up with blisters by the time we set up camp I could scream. With Leuko tape I got through the week. Taped up and had no further problem. Wore them all through rifle season with no problem.
This year was a repeat of last year - first day was OK but I could feel hot spots on both heels. 2nd day I only had duct tape with me and got pretty crippled up. Used Leuko tape this year during rifle season and no major problems.
So - I've got a couple questions:
1) is there a difference in heel cup between their insulated versus non insulated? Anyone ever had heel problems with any insulated Kenetreks?
2) someone recently told me to send them back and have them stretch the heel - anyone heard anything about this?

Great boot but I'm about to cut my losses.

cowboy:

My story is identical to yours. 400g insulated are the best-fitting boots ever. Non-insulated (bought later, based on the insulated boots' fit, like you) killed my heels. After a right-proper break-in, I sent them back with the trouble spots marked, and Kenetrek bumped the heels out at that spot. They fit better now, but not as well as the insulated. No blisters anymore, but my heels get a bit sore at the 5-6 mile mark.

My problem turned out to be an actual condition called "Haglund's Deformity," and this condition makes finding boots that fit a real challenge.

Regards,
Scott

 

[3deer]

I have been wearing a pair of Mountain Extremes non insulated for the past 2 years. I have never had a blister or hot spots form these boots tired feet yes after miles of backpack hunting. One thing I do that maybe different than most is- 1) I don't lace up too tight, 2) I don't lace up the 2 top d rings instead I lace up the first (bottom) 2 d rings then run the laces around the boot and tie off there. I like the tall boots but when I tie off at the top it makes my calves ache after the blood gets pumping. I think tying off lower keeps my heels moving. IDK just what I do

 

[mt100gr.]

And for me it is the opposite. I have never had blisters from my insulated Mountain Extreme boots but if I lace them loose I can feel my heel move. I tried a number of different insoles before I found one that works for me but they have to be laced up pretty tight and with a pretty heavy sock or two pair of lighter socks. I change my socks often and stop to re-lace if I feel something starting to move.

That said, being happy with the insulated version, it seemed a no brainer to go with the uninsulated mountain extremes for earlier in the year. I could tell in the store that no amount of break in or any insole/sock combo would keep my heels from getting hot quickly. I ordered Schnee's.

 

[wapitibob]

Try the danner airthotic inserts. They will lift your heel up a smidge without taking up any forefoot volume.

 

[Biggs300]

I can't recall, but I think I may have had a hot spot on one heel when initially breaking in my Mountain Extremes. I replaced the inserts and have not had a problem since. They are now in their 4th season and are as comfortable as any boot I've ever owned…..and I've had many pairs in my 45+ years of hunting.

 

[murf45]

And for me it is the opposite. I have never had blisters from my insulated Mountain Extreme boots but if I lace them loose I can feel my heel move. I tried a number of different insoles before I found one that works for me but they have to be laced up pretty tight and with a pretty heavy sock or two pair of lighter socks. I change my socks often and stop to re-lace if I feel something starting to move.

That said, being happy with the insulated version, it seemed a no brainer to go with the uninsulated mountain extremes for earlier in the year. I could tell in the store that no amount of break in or any insole/sock combo would keep my heels from getting hot quickly. I ordered Schnee's.

What schnee boot did you get? How does the width and sizing compare to the uninsulated mountain extreme?

 

[Kotaman]

It's not different than any other boot. I have several boots and the Kenetreks are by far my favorite. There's a ton of variation in feet. If you're trying a redeem a bad situation I would suggest a taller arched insole . It's going to reduce some of the volume of the boot and keep your foot more stable. It doesn't always work but it's sure nice when it does.

Yes, Kene's are different than any other boot. A couple years ago, I tested roughly 20 some pair of mountain boots. Over the course of 3 years I wore several of the boots on exteme mountain hunts. Only two pair shredded my heels and never made a hunt. Kene Mountain Extremes and Kene Hard Scrabble. I tried to give both pair the benefit of the doubt and wore them each over 50 miles in traing hikes. They simply were the only boots out of 20 some pair that I could not wear. I have a wide forefoot and slightly narrow heel. I must be in that 15% that Jim speaks of. Really, I want to like Kenetrek, they just don't like me.

 

[Fireguy]

So are your guy's heals slipping with each step? Do you feel this heal move in the boot just a little? Or is it just rubbing on the boot?

 

[mt100gr.]

What schnee boot did you get? How does the width and sizing compare to the uninsulated mountain extreme?

I bought the Granites. And like them well enough with Superfeet. Some of the stitching is a little loose, some awfully close to edges of the material, one tongue stud is off center, and one rand came loose pretty quickly....didn't expect that given the cost, but I.do like the fit and support.

I was more focused on stiffness, and feeling for heel movement when I tried on the uninsulated mtn extremes but widthwise nothing struck me as odd or ill-fitting. I have a narrow foot and medium width boots seem to fit me well across most brands. Also, for Kenetrek, Lowa, Schnee's and Nick's a 12 seems to be a 12. I can get away with the same size for most boots I have tried.

 

[KenetrekBill]

Another member PM'd me with an issue where he had a blister on the ball of his foot. I thought I would post my response to him in the open forum, should any of you be experiencing a similar issue now or in the future.

The balls of your feet can blister under heavy use. It usually is caused by foot motion, moisture, and friction. I would suggest using a liner sock and a heavier over sock made of wool. The theory is that any slippage occurs between the socks rather than between your skin and the socks. Make certain that the bulk of the sock combination is snug to reduce foot movement in the boot. You may also want to try a different insole. One that provides a more softer cushioning effect.

KenetrekBill

 

[2ski]

My experiences with Kennetreks....I'm looking at buying some Schee's.

I have had Kennetreks for probably close to 5 or 6 years now. So they have a lot of miles on them. There is no lack of break in time. I have worn them every hunting season, and on those hunts they have hindered my hunting style as I cannot go as far or as steep as I would like. They feel great if I am standing around on level ground or walking around a little bit. But get into hiking and the top of my heel gets a blister. They do not slip from what I can tell. They feel great, they just eventually blister. This is not only hiking mountains. The last straw for me was about a month ago. I was PHEASANT hunting. Walking around on level ground but having to high step through brush alot, and after about 2 miles in, I was blistered. That left a 2 mile walk out I had to make so they blistered even worse.

I have tried multiple socks and liner combinations. Different lacing methods. The best they've worked is with Darn tough socks and a liner. But still get a blister. I've used the socks Kennetrek sold me when I bought the boots. I'm going to go to their offices after Christmas and see if there is anything they will do for me. Because after six years and a boot that still looks like it hasn't even gone through 2 seasons, that's not right.

 

[Mbogo]

I have the Mountain Extremes un insulated and the Hard scrabbles. I run Super feet green insoles in them both. To break them in i take them out of the box and go guiding elk and goat hunters. No problems so far !

 

[Laelkhunter]

I read in a couple of the replies to this thread about a "special lacing technique". Could someone explain exactly what that is?

 

[twall13]

I found this one and this one helpful. I've also found the knot shown on this site to stay put a lot better than most, yet still slips free with the pull of one end when I'm ready to take my boots off. The only variation I do is add an extra wrap around when I first cinch it down to help hold it while I tie the loops. Hopefully this helps.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Thanks twall13,
Both were very informative.