Kenai River King Salmon - Circling the Drain

[WalterH]

It's more than just commercial though. Help is needed from the ocean to the spawning grounds and a one size all plan doesn't work as each basin has it's own particular set of challenges. It can be anything from bad hatchery practices, lack of large woody debris, straightening of rivers, poor spawning habitat, poor logging practices, commercial harvest, poor recruitment, invasive species, lack of estuary rearing habitat, dams, overharvest, poor season setting (basing seasons on projections that are often wrong), lack of life history diversity, changing of run timing, etc, etc, etc.. It's the old story of a thousand cuts.

The one constant is humans, there are simply too many of us. We've changed many of the things these fish need to survive in abundance and unfortunately I don't think we have the desire to do what really needs to be done. We changed too many things and going backwards just isn't in the cards.

Spot on man.

Great summary of the “thousand cuts” conundrum. We always want to simplify explanations and have one bad guy to point at. Unfortunately, when it comes to fish and wildlife, it is never quite that simple.

 

[william schmaltz]

We could certainly have a whole separate discussion on the trawl issues and could stretch other impacts into numerous pages. Best we can do is control what we can now and then move onto working the next issue. Mat Su meeting is tomorrow evening and putting together comments is on the agenda. I guess I’ll see what they have to say.

I saw a very good summary posted by Francis a couple days ago:
<<<The HISTORY of Kenai King Management in a nutshell…

Recs killed lotsa BIG fish. Comm nets killed lotsa BIG fish. More kept coming back. ADFG deemed it sustainable.
Til it wasn’t.

The 80’s saw the advent of the sonar, the first attempt at quantifying run-size.
We kept killing them

1985 saw the sport record king.
The guide fleet swelled.
60, 70, and 80 pounders fell like flies. The beach nets took up to 20000 a year. The recs took another 6-8 thousand a year. We kept killing them.

The 1990’s saw run-sizes of ~16k in May-June. Triple that in July. We kept killing them.

The sonar was clearly overcounting, esp during times of peak sockeye passage. Phantom kings were padding the escapement numbers so we could keep killing them.

Fewer fish were making it to the spawning gravel. 2002 saw the first closure of the ER in my tenure on the river… cuz we couldn’t make a 7200 escapement.

The solution? Escapement goals were reduced… so we could keep killing them.

We put a slot limit into place to save the big ones, but the lion’s share of the big egg wagons were still fair game. And we kept killing them, as many as 85% of the inriver return counted at the sonar

Returns continued to languish. E-goal was reduced even further… so we could keep killing them.

2012… the ER numbers are down to the low 2000’s… and the run is 80% males… and 80% of those are subtaggable jacks. 4-salt egg wagons that at one time were the backbone of the run are essentially MIA

2017… a breath of fresh air as the best run in the past decade makes its way upriver. ADFG said kill’em all… with bait at that! Of course, we kept killing them…. ALL sizes… especially the bigger hens

2023… It’s the second week of June and there’s hardly a true Kenai-caliber king to be found among the daily estimated average of 11 “large” kings swimming past the sonar every 24 hours. Neither the ER nor the LR achieve their respective conservation goals by season’s end.

Despite a complete pre-emptive closure of the ENTIRE king fishery, the Kenai late run king stock is finally declared an official Stock of Management Concern

JFC… ADFG finally figured out, “Mebbe we shouldn’t keep killing them?”>>>

Edit: I’ll add for good measure and to be fair that the Susitna system hasn’t had the commercial impact (they did have major sport harvest) that the Kenai has had and the run number are somewhat shadowing the Kenai.

 

[WalterH]

Francis has the best position and perspective on this issue by far and his proposal #83 is spot on for what needs to be changed in the current management plan to swing things around for Kenai kings if we are going to try and give them a chance to make it.

 

[Coveyleader]

Truly sad! we have killed the last passenger pigeon once again.

 

[OXN939]

The trawl industry is a massive problem for kings, halibut, orcas, and most anything that winds up in their path.

How many Kenai kings die in the trawl fishery is not well understood or documented as far as I know. Seeing as how their rearing grounds, the Bering sea, and the trawl fleet intersect, I am sure it is significant.

That having been said, I wouldn't say trying to make sure the minimum number of kings required to sustain the run make it into the river is a lost cause. I'd say it is a very worthy one as every 60lb egg wagon that makes it into the river stands to drop tens of thousands of eggs. Each and every one of the large females that make it to the river plays a very significant part in furthering the population.

Though we may not solve the trawl problem over night, I at least want to take what little action I can to try and influence something for the positive, if even larger problems still loom. The river managed to kick out healthy runs o kings in generation gone by right alongside the trawl fleet, and I think the hope should still exist that it could happen again.

Makes sense. I'll be an AK resident within the next few years, and it's sad to think that I may never experience catching a big king. Historical context of the fishery in mind, I don't know that I'd feel good keeping one if I did. Would honestly be cool just to see one.

Thanks for bringing attention to this. Grassroots conservation efforts like this are the best hope for our resources' future.

 

[mtnbiker208]

king fishing has tanked but sockeye fishing is out of this world? at least that is what i hear.
coincidence?

 

[Flyjunky]

king fishing has tanked but sockeye fishing is out of this world? at least that is what i hear.
coincidence?

I'm sure it's a factor, how big of one I'm not sure. The ocean only has so much food and when it's flooded with sockeye it doesn't help. We have to remember other countries are flooding the oceans with hatch fish was well.

 

[Coveyleader]

king fishing has tanked but sockeye fishing is out of this world? at least that is what i hear.
coincidence?

Until when? We are the last great runs, and we’ve nuked them. Do a search on Fraser River sockeyes. Another disaster!

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Submitted and thank you for bringing this to our attention.

As an aside... If I'm not an Eagles fan, do I still stand a chance to catch one of those brutes?

 

[WalterH]

I'm sure it's a factor, how big of one I'm not sure. The ocean only has so much food and when it's flooded with sockeye it doesn't help. We have to remember other countries are flooding the oceans with hatch fish was well.

Sockeye and kings don't compete for food in the ocean. Sockeye feed on very different things than kings, zooplankton and amphipods primarily, whereas kings are meat eaters.

One thing that the success of sockeye vs. kings and other salmon does tell us is that ocean survival is a major factor. The longer these fish spend in the ocean, the less likely it is that they will make it back to the river. Most sockeye return after two years in the salt whereas kings can spend up to seven years out there. Historically, most spend 4-5 years in the salt, but that has been changing for many strains as of late with smaller, younger fish making up the majority of most king runs in SC AK.

 

[WalterH]

Submitted and thank you for bringing this to our attention.

As an aside... If I'm not an Eagles fan, do I still stand a chance to catch one of those brutes?

Without the lucky hat and given the lack of big fish the last few years, your chances are not looking good.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I'm sure it's a factor, how big of one I'm not sure. The ocean only has so much food and when it's flooded with sockeye it doesn't help. We have to remember other countries are flooding the oceans with hatch fish was well.

I think we've traditionally treated the ocean as a monolith, and almost untouchable. I think the reality we are slowly starting to realize is that it has its ups and downs based on currents, water temps, and who the hell knows what else. The "portfolio" of salmon populations evolved to capitalize on those happy hunting grounds and explode in numbers when the food was there. Reds and Kings use vastly different habitats and food in the ocean, so their changes in abundance likely largely reflect where those habitats are doing better or worse, and what food is being produced.

The bottom line from a King perspective though is that failing to let a few of those magnums make it upriver, and constantly pursuing fish in the ocean doesn't do us any favors for helping them maintain numbers or get older (bigger) before them come back.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Without the lucky hat and given the lack of big fish the last few years, your chances are not looking good.

Makes sense. I thought it was just a tribute to the Eagles also circling the drain

 

[OXN939]

king fishing has tanked but sockeye fishing is out of this world? at least that is what i hear.
coincidence?

Not a debate about climate change, but sockeye tolerate warm SSTs better than kings do... if the water is over 55 when they spawn, recruitment for kings is virtually nonexistent. And that has happened several times recently. Lots of headwinds for species like kings to contend with.

 

[AKBC]

The trawl industry is a massive problem for kings, halibut, orcas, and most anything that winds up in their path.

How many Kenai kings die in the trawl fishery is not well understood or documented as far as I know. Seeing as how their rearing grounds, the Bering sea, and the trawl fleet intersect, I am sure it is significant.

That having been said, I wouldn't say trying to make sure the minimum number of kings required to sustain the run make it into the river is a lost cause. I'd say it is a very worthy one as every 60lb egg wagon that makes it into the river stands to drop tens of thousands of eggs. Each and every one of the large females that make it to the river plays a very significant part in furthering the population.

Though we may not solve the trawl problem over night, I at least want to take what little action I can to try and influence something for the positive, if even larger problems still loom. The river managed to kick out healthy runs o kings in generation gone by right alongside the trawl fleet, and I think the hope should still exist that it could happen again.

For at least 120 years, there has been a commercial salmon fishery in Cook Inlet. Large kings, even record setting kings, were common until about 20 years ago when the guided sport fishery really grew. The sport and guided sport industry have been very strong politically and even now on weak run forecasts, are allowed to catch and release these fish. Catch and release fishing of kings needed for spawning has been common.

I find it ironic that pictures of large kings being caught and released are being used to drum up support for the sport view of conservation.

 

[Flyjunky]

Sockeye and kings don't compete for food in the ocean. Sockeye feed on very different things than kings, zooplankton and amphipods primarily, whereas kings are meat eaters.

One thing that the success of sockeye vs. kings and other salmon does tell us is that ocean survival is a major factor. The longer these fish spend in the ocean, the less likely it is that they will make it back to the river. Most sockeye return after two years in the salt whereas kings can spend up to seven years out there. Historically, most spend 4-5 years in the salt, but that has been changing for many strains as of late with smaller, younger fish making up the majority of most king runs in SC AK.

Correct, but from my understanding the food source the kings feed on is the same food (zooplankton/amphipods) that sockeye feed on. Is that not correct?

 

[Flyjunky]

I think we've traditionally treated the ocean as a monolith, and almost untouchable. I think the reality we are slowly starting to realize is that it has its ups and downs based on currents, water temps, and who the hell knows what else. The "portfolio" of salmon populations evolved to capitalize on those happy hunting grounds and explode in numbers when the food was there. Reds and Kings use vastly different habitats and food in the ocean, so their changes in abundance likely largely reflect where those habitats are doing better or worse, and what food is being produced.

The bottom line from a King perspective though is that failing to let a few of those magnums make it upriver, and constantly pursuing fish in the ocean doesn't do us any favors for helping them maintain numbers or get older (bigger) before them come back.

I get all that and the pdo is mostly correlated with good/bad ocean conditions.

Yes, numbers of fish have always been cyclical but the problem is that our good times, high returns, now are nowhere near the good times of years before. The overall trend of good returns is getting worse.

 

[WalterH]

Correct, but from my understanding the food source the kings feed on is the same food (zooplankton/amphipods) that sockeye feed on. Is that not correct?

No, at least not for most of their life and time in the ocean.

Kings feed on those things for a brief time when they are smolt/juveniles, but then baitfish, squid, shrimp, and in some cases crustaceans make up the bulk of their diet. Meateaters...

 

[william schmaltz]

I’d assume that as a whole, pinks are far outcompeting anything else out there. There are now more HATCHERY pinks in the North Pacific than sockeye. ADFG releases 800 million alone annually. Between N America and Asia, over 2 billion hatchery pinks are turned loose annually. This is a species that has evolved with the ecosystem as an every-other-year run for a reason. The ocean is no longer getting that year to recharge. It’s just take, take, take. There are so many layers to this.

We can argue who/what is the culprit until our fingers are bleeding. It’s also OK for the sport and commercial guys to say they participated and potentially made it worse. Hindsight is 20/20 and in the end most of those folks were told what they were doing was sustainable by the experts in charge. What we need to do now is stop the f**<ing bleeding immediately while we figure it out.

If they lower the management goal and give C&R fishermen and set netters the green light, there’s no doubt in my mind a good amount of each will be out there getting theirs while they can.

 

[Flyjunky]

No, at least not for most of their life and time in the ocean.

Kings feed on those things for a brief time when they are smolt/juveniles, but then baitfish, squid, shrimp, and in some cases crustaceans make up the bulk of their diet. Meateaters...

Sorry, I had a tough time trying to say what my brain was thinking.

I meant, zooplankton and amphipods are also the food source of the smaller fish that chinook feed on, correct. More sockeye released in the ocean eat zooplankton/amphipods which is the same food base the chinook's prey eats = reduced food for chinook.

Does that make more sense?