Keeping weight on active dog

[PSDBowhunter]

I switched them over to feeding once a day. I think they're still getting used to it (definitely didn't like it at first).

How do you guys determine how much food to give more active dogs? The recommendations on the bag are a starting point I suppose, but I would imagine their needs are greater when I'm running them every day.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

The analogy that Dos Perros made is perfect he is at fighting weight. I personally like my dogs to look about halfway in between the first picture and the second picture. Based on the forecast I will be hunting my shorthairs on Saturday in the snow with a high of 15 deg F and 10 mph winds. I like a little more fat reserves than the second picture because I think it helps in this situation. If I lived in Tucson, the second picture would not be alarming to me. If you are not going to leave the dog outside in the cold without protection from the wind for extended periods of time then I would not be too worried if I were you.

It is hard to judge too much from a single picture but when I look at the second picture I see things that suggest to me he is very fit with a low body fat content but not starving to death or diseased. On his shoulders and on his legs he has well defined muscle mass with a fair amount of bulk that is covering the bone structure in these areas. You also see his veins prominently on top of his muscles from them being used due to exercise. If a dog, animal, or human of any kind is truly starving they will start to drop muscle mass after they drop the fat off their body.

Look up pictures of triathletes who get a ton of cardio and of people with mild anorexia. In the first case you will see well defined muscle mass and veins that are used to pumping blood. In the second case you will not see the muscles mass/structure. You will be able to count a comparable number of ribs on each of the individuals. One is a very healthy human, one is a very unhealthy human but you cannot tell that by just counting visible ribs. For all intents and purposes your dog is a triathlete.

Over the decades dogs have gotten fat just like people. We get used to seeing overfed dogs, dogs with long hair that you can't see body structure as well and just downright fat dogs. When a lot of people see the ribs on the slick coated hunting dogs (german shorthairs, visla, english pointers, weimerieners, etc) they get concerned just because it is not what they are used to seeing.

I said it before and others have repeated it but I will say it again. The most important thing you can do is changing the schedule you feed them. I firmly believe this to be the case for you dalmatian and lab as well.

One more thing to add, if you haven't done so already go buy a GPS collar and take him hunting. I realize that you are not exactly in the upland capital of the world, but I strongly suggest you at least casually hit the grouse woods or take him to a game farm. There is something magical about working with your dog to accomplish a shared goal. If bird season interferes to much with your big game season, most states (check PA rules) let you run your dog on wild birds (but not shoot them) as long as it isn't during nesting season for training purposes if you have a small game license. The March time frame it is a good excuse to go to the mountains and scout for turkey........

That is a very good analogy. This pointer is the most muscular looking dog I've ever had. He just happens to be at a very low body fat percentage as well.

They get regular walks on the local state game lands. We actually have a 400 acre area of reclaimed strip mines about 20 minutes from my house where they stock pheasants throughout the fall. I've taken him over there a couple times to run around and look for birds.

I do need to get a GPS collar for him. He disappeared on my once over there for 15 minutes. He didn't respond to his e-collar, which he is normally really good at. He may just have been a little lost. Are there base model GPS collars that are more affordable, but still decent quality?

 

[chemist]

I switched them over to feeding once a day. I think they're still getting used to it (definitely didn't like it at first).

How do you guys determine how much food to give more active dogs? The recommendations on the bag are a starting point I suppose, but I would imagine their needs are greater when I'm running them every day.

Everybody does it a little different. The way I personally would approach it would be to add about 25 % to what the bag says as a starting point. This is assuming he is not getting a lot of calories from wife/children with snacks throughout the day. From there I would monitor his weight/body condition and the condition of his stools. If his weight and body condition are stabilized in a condition that you find acceptable over the course of a couple of weeks then he is getting enough food. If he consistently has diarrhea then he is likely getting to much food and not fully digesting it. For this, I really mean the first big stool of the day. It should come out as fairly firm logs. If there is a little bit of squirt as the last bit to exit his body it is pretty normal, but the first portion to exit his body should be firm. It is also not a big deal if he is running hard and stopping to excrete the last bit as squirts. However, if the big excretions are consistently (more than a week) messy then something is going on and overfeeding is one of many possibilities.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Did you switch foods or still with PPP?

 

[chemist]

That is a very good analogy. This pointer is the most muscular looking dog I've ever had. He just happens to be at a very low body fat percentage as well.

They get regular walks on the local state game lands. We actually have a 400 acre area of reclaimed strip mines about 20 minutes from my house where they stock pheasants throughout the fall. I've taken him over there a couple times to run around and look for birds.

I do need to get a GPS collar for him. He disappeared on my once over there for 15 minutes. He didn't respond to his e-collar, which he is normally really good at. He may just have been a little lost. Are there base model GPS collars that are more affordable, but still decent quality?

My male dog has a very good recall. He also has a very very strong pointing instinct. Literally the only time I have difficulty recalling him is when he is on point. There has been more than one time where I have used the tone (trained to be recall) on his collar to locate him on point in thick cover. He does not flinch when he has a bird under his nose and I recall him. Hell, he doesn't flinch when I physically pick him up in that scenario. There is a non-zero chance he was literally pointing something 20 yards from you initially and you walked off in the wrong direction looking for him.

That said, dogs can loose track of you in the field. It helps to have something you can make a great deal of noise with so that they can locate you. A lot of people carry a loud whistle that the dog has been trained to for this purpose.

I am not a help on inexpensive GPS units. I hunt my dogs ~35 days a year, and spend another 30ish running them in the field on the front and end of the hunting season. I went with the alpha 100 as a combo track and train collar because I determined that while it is expensive, in the big picture of owning bird dogs the cost was insignificant. For the purpose you describe, it sounds like you would not need as nice of unit as me.

 

[jimh406]

I'm a believer in feeding twice a day for hunting dogs. That way, the dog has at least some food to keep their energy level up.

Are you feeding the same food as the previous owner? Did you have a stool sample evaluated at the vet to eliminate the chance for parasites?

Different people like different foods for their dogs. Some of my friends loved PPP. I've fed Iams Minichunks for decades with no issues, but YMMV or your dogs might.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

Did you switch foods or still with PPP?

Still with PPP. I have probably about a third of the bag left.

I was looking at Inushuk on Chewy. My subscription order is due in another 5 days. Debating whether to switch now or try another bag of PPP with the new feeding schedule.

Of course, there is that other thread on raw dog food in the Game Bird forum. I'm sure that's a whole other rabbit trail to go down.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

My male dog has a very good recall. He also has a very very strong pointing instinct. Literally the only time I have difficulty recalling him is when he is on point. There has been more than one time where I have used the tone (trained to be recall) on his collar to locate him on point in thick cover. He does not flinch when he has a bird under his nose and I recall him. Hell, he doesn't flinch when I physically pick him up in that scenario. There is a non-zero chance he was literally pointing something 20 yards from you initially and you walked off in the wrong direction looking for him.

That said, dogs can loose track of you in the field. It helps to have something you can make a great deal of noise with so that they can locate you. A lot of people carry a loud whistle that the dog has been trained to for this purpose.

I am not a help on inexpensive GPS units. I hunt my dogs ~35 days a year, and spend another 30ish running them in the field on the front and end of the hunting season. I went with the alpha 100 as a combo track and train collar because I determined that while it is expensive, in the big picture of owning bird dogs the cost was insignificant. For the purpose you describe, it sounds like you would not need as nice of unit as me.

I typically only tone mine as well and he comes back right away. The only time I've had a hard time getting him to come is when I've seen him chasing deer. That's the only time I've had to use stim mode.

I actually usually do carry a whistle with me in the field because it's not the first time him or my dalmatian have gotten out of my sight. It's amazing how quickly they can disappear if you aren't paying attention. The whistle has definitely helped.

I may try and keep my eyes out for a used one. The Garmin Alpha seem to be everyone's go to.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I'm a believer in feeding twice a day for hunting dogs. That way, the dog has at least some food to keep their energy level up.

Are you feeding the same food as the previous owner? Did you have a stool sample evaluated at the vet to eliminate the chance for parasites?

Different people like different foods for their dogs. Some of my friends loved PPP. I've fed Iams Minichunks for decades with no issues, but YMMV or your dogs might.

Not sure how much my cousin was feeding him, but he was also in a pen for most of the day. He gets a lot more exercise at my house.

Yes, we took him to the vet and spent a couple hundred dollars for them to go through everything and give us a clean bill of health. Said he was the healthiest dog they had seen in a while.

His energy level always seems to be up. He'll go outside anytime you let him, except when it's snowing out. Not a big fan of that.

 

[AlBeartoe]

I feed kibble with at least 25% fat....4 cups per day keeps my 1 year old pup the right weight.
Either Red Paw PowerEdge 32k (25%fat, 32%protein) or Inukshuk 32/32 which has 32% fat, 32% protein.

I see you live in Alaska? If so you have the BEST access to high quality kibble around! This is due entirely to the high sled dog density in the area. Redpaw is good and I fed it for many years to 30-40 sled dogs. But, it doesn't compare to other brands. Caribou Creek Gold and Caribou Creek Silver are both better kibbles. Also, surprisingly, so is Victor High Pro Plus. (I know the had their salmonella scare but they are coming back)

CHECK THE BACK OF THE BAG!! Read the ingredients list and at least 3 of the top 5 ingredients need to be meat based to be considered 'fine' in my mind. Some of the brands listed above have 7 of the top 10 ingredients that are meat based. If CORN is in the top 3 ingredients it is a shit food and your dog will have the runs and not hold weight.

There is a direct relationship between the quality of the kibble and the quantity your dog needs to hold weight. In the end, I think I save money by feeding a more expensive kibble because I feed that much less.

And FYI, Purina Pro Plan, ya the one with the GSP on the bag...absolutely not a great kibble for the price

 

[rhsmith3]

Where does the dog sleep? Inukshuk is a great food and will likely help. Like other have stated, I’d feed 25% in the morning 75% at night.

Bringing dogs inside and crating for sleep can drastically decrease their caloric use at night.

 

[Tmac]

We had a young border collie we had trouble getting and keeping weight on. He looked like he was starving. I finally figured out he loved any food combined with oil packed tuna. I fed 3x a day for a few weeks, then went to 2x. Gave him as much as he’d eat in the morning and a good feeding evenings. I would make one can of tuna last 3-5 days, just mixing it in the food was the key for that fish eater. He got a hint of tuna smell and game on. Once we got some weight on him, we backed off the quantity, not frequency.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

I see you live in Alaska? If so you have the BEST access to high quality kibble around! This is due entirely to the high sled dog density in the area. Redpaw is good and I fed it for many years to 30-40 sled dogs. But, it doesn't compare to other brands. Caribou Creek Gold and Caribou Creek Silver are both better kibbles. Also, surprisingly, so is Victor High Pro Plus. (I know the had their salmonella scare but they are coming back)

CHECK THE BACK OF THE BAG!! Read the ingredients list and at least 3 of the top 5 ingredients need to be meat based to be considered 'fine' in my mind. Some of the brands listed above have 7 of the top 10 ingredients that are meat based. If CORN is in the top 3 ingredients it is a shit food and your dog will have the runs and not hold weight.

There is a direct relationship between the quality of the kibble and the quantity your dog needs to hold weight. In the end, I think I save money by feeding a more expensive kibble because I feed that much less.

And FYI, Purina Pro Plan, ya the one with the GSP on the bag...absolutely not a great kibble for the price

I prefer Red Paw because the first ingredient is Menhaden which is rich in Omega-3.
Plus Menhaden is a wild product.
I can also get Redpaw Poweredge in Montana at the Ace Hardware stores. 25% fat and 32% protein.
It is hard kibble so it cleans tarter from teeth if fed as floated kibble.

Purina did a study on soaked, versus dry, versus floated kibble.
They found floated kibble was the best method.

 

[KurtR]

When we are training hard in the summer or during hunting season i float my dogs food.

 

[PAwhitetail82]

Inukshuk is very good food. You can also try using a supplement like annamaet impact or dyne for dogs. I've used both when it's the heart of hunting season and she starts getting thin even when feeding more. It's basically a calorie booster

 

[GSPHUNTER]

The only times I had issue with one of my GSP's dropping weight was, either they were sick, or we were on several day hunts. Not one of them had any interest in food, except milk bonz, or med. rear ribeye steak.