Jimmy John kills potential new state record sheep in NM

[Boarmaster]

Money affects attitudes across the whole spectrum of hunting and life for that matter. Those with more finances will always displace those with less.

It’s hard for me to define who the everyday hunter is anymore. In my world seasons are long , tags and animals are plentiful. Access is the issue. With few good public access options available leases are the most common way hunters gain access. Just about every average everyday whitetail hunter I know either has a lease or goes as a guest with someone who does. Thats a rub for some.

My lease happens to be in another state. Even more of a rub for some of the locals there.

I don't mean to compare hunting Whitetails to hunting a ram like this just to make the point someone is always one more tier down the financial ladder affected by those willing to spend more.
I didn't read all 12 pages of the thread but got the flavor of it in first 4. Many legit and great points as usual.

 

[Boarmaster]

I can honestly say i never thought eldora would ever be talked about here haha. That place rocks

Went there many times with my cousin and uncle as a kid in Ohio.

 

[MuleyFever]

Meateater is a much bigger problem than JJ…what has he given back?

I am curious how you think ME is a bigger problem?

Since you asked I was curious and found this - https://www.themeateater.com/pages/meateater-gives

 

[TheTone]

Interesting insight into auction(governor) tags on the meateater podcast this week. 36 governor tags have gone to 3 individuals. I know, everybody can bid, but the reality is your average Joe doesn’t have the jingle to bid with the billionaires and yea I know he just needs to work harder and be a billionaire too. All these tags are is a set aside for the ultra rich to take the cream of the crop from our big game herds throughout the west, and I personally hope more states go the way of Arizona.

And at the end of the day all those critters will be collecting dust somewhere, the stories forgotten, sold off and/or dumped in a landfill. It’s about bragging rights with other rich folks. They have just conned a way in to having access to the best hunting every year without waiting in line like the poor folk playing the draw game. That they have convinced so many that paying the high prices because it’s for “conservation” is sad. They could fund conservation to their heart’s content but don’t seem to do it unless something huge dies. Imagine if they just purchased some big chunks of land instead and turns it over to public ownership. I’d wager that would benefit hunters to a larger extent

 

[Brock A]

I can honestly say i never thought eldora would ever be talked about here haha. That place rocks

Ha, I thought the same thing.

 

[PMcGee]

I can honestly say i never thought eldora would ever be talked about here haha. That place rocks

Not as good as Port Royal but it’s not bad. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[KurtR]

Not as good as Port Royal but it’s not bad. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

My brother was pit crew with the super late models for a bunch of years got to go to a bunch of places .I never did get out there watched on tv a bunch. I’m going to have to make the trip some time.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I am curious how you think ME is a bigger problem?

Since you asked I was curious and found this - https://www.themeateater.com/pages/meateater-gives

no dog in this argument because any money to conservation is a win, but ME does a lot of first responder and vet hunting , and hunter ed, so a portion of that money isn’t direct to conservation

 

[TenRing]

Interesting insight into auction(governor) tags on the meateater podcast this week. 36 governor tags have gone to 3 individuals. I know, everybody can bid, but the reality is your average Joe doesn’t have the jingle to bid with the billionaires and yea I know he just needs to work harder and be a billionaire too. All these tags are is a set aside for the ultra rich to take the cream of the crop from our big game herds throughout the west, and I personally hope more states go the way of Arizona.

There are more than 3 individuals purchasing auction tags. There may be 3 people that since the inception of auction tags have purchased 36 tags.

Also, like it has been said in this post over and over again. The public does have the options for raffle versions of these same tags. Heck, two people who comment on this forum drew the Nevada Silver State Deer and Sheep tags. The deer tag holder just killed a 240-250” buck. So to say the opportunity is only for the super wealthy is wrong.

Find me another fund raiser that will raise this type of money for conservation that the auction tags do. Raffles/draws fall consistently fall short of the auctions.

 

[CorbLand]

Eldora speedway does something similar with their 50/50 when they race. You can buy tickets from their website but you must be in Ohio. I’ve tried from home and it won’t let you buy them. Cross the Ohio boarder and you’re good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Interesting. I wonder how they track it.

 

[Archer86]

Find me another fund raiser that will raise this type of money for conservation that the auction tags do. Raffles/draws fall consistently fall short of the auauctions.

Keep repeating this doesn't make it true. There are multiple examples in this thread that prove other wise. Silver State Tags you point out are one example.

 

[Bugger]

#10 is where it's at...add crunchy jalapeños!

I tried the crunchy jalapeños, mmm!

 

[TenRing]

Keep repeating this doesn't make it true. There are multiple examples in this thread that prove other wise. Silver State Tags you point out are one example.

You keep saying they can raise the same amount as the Auction tags with other fund raisers. Please explain how? Both options (Raffle & Auctions) are currently in place and the outcomes are recorded, so none of what I'm saying is theory or speculation. The results over the last decade have proven, without a doubt, that the Auctions out raise the Raffles.

How do you propose NV replaces the 1.3 Mill from auction tags with a Raffle that currently cannot raise the same amount of funding? They already market the SS tags like crazy: eblasts, mailers, social media posts, etc... yet they still can't get 20% of applicants to apply for the tags. How are they going to get more than double the current applicants to apply for something they aren't interested in and/or can't afford?

Could NV add an additional fee? They would have to add at least $20 per applicant to make up for the auction tags. That stamp/donation couldn't be added to the licenses or tag fees, as that would have to go through legislation. So that would have to be an option when you apply, how many people would check that box to donate?

If you are seriously wanting to change the system with something better, I'll be all ears. Petition the wildlife commissions with your idea. Until I see something that has actual proof they will raise the same or more funding and not just theory, I will keep defending the auction tags. I get they are a point of contention, and they create a negative emotional response from a lot of people. But, do the funds raised hurt or help our western big game?

 

[MNGrouser]

I've never been on a sheep hunt and likely never will. Most of us have opinions on it. Not that it matters much but here is mine.

I like the current model. A mix of draws, raffles & auction allows the most opportunity and the most money for conservation.

Draws fit with the North American model. The bulk of the tags stay here and it is access for everyone. Long odds but you have a shot. The state doesn't make a ton of money here but draws are for access.

Raffles raise more money on a per tag basis but give everyone that chance to "win big" and jump to the front of the line. Taking a tag or two out of the general pool brings in more money. It isn't like if they put that take in the general draw they would get thousand of more applicants. Those who are going to apply are going to apply whether there are 5 tags or 6. Some commented that the raffles are so the serfs feel like they have a chance. I would argue the raffles DO give us common folks a chance.

Auctions are the raffle on steroids. Yes, only the elite of the super-wealthy get to play but they also contribute more on a per tag basis than either of the other two groups. It would bring in the most money just to make all the tags auction tags. Increasing the number would dilute the value somewhat but would be too similar to the European model of conservation.


I know the meateater folks have teamed up with the TRCP to raffle a turkey hunting trip. So some of their effort does give back a little.

I've never tried the crunchy jalapenos but I think I live at least 100 miles from the nearest Jimmy Johns.

That is a Helluva ram!

 

[307]

The idea of raffles might not scale.

In other words, if 1000 people buy one raffle ticket for $100 for a chance to hunt this, or any, ram, then $100,000 is raised.

Would the same 1000 people buy another raffle ticket for another $100 (total of $200) if there were two tags available? Or would an additional 1000 people (total 2000 people) buy a $100 ticket if another tag were available? Would two tags bring $200,000 to keep the rate of return at $100,000/tag?

I don't know, but I don't think it will.

I think you're probably maxing out the raffle option by having one raffle tag and any additional tags would bring in less and less $ on a per tag basis.

So, one of each (raffle, auction) seems like it might be the most $/tag return.

Could be wrong.

 

[ddd-shooter]

But, do the funds raised hurt or help our western big game?

I’d be interesting in seeing the proof that the system, as currently set up, does help western big game.
I’m just not knowledgeable enough to know.
I do know that I never hear of more sheep or more opportunities. But that could be my ears.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

But, do the funds raised hurt or help our western big game?

I keep asking this question, Fish and Wildlife departments always seem to want and need more money, and I liken it to public schools. Our local public schools keep saying they can’t educate effectively without more money, but when they get money they do things like field turf and new tracks rather than actually putting it toward education. Fish and wildlife departments need more money to improve habitat, but every time they have money they buy new trucks and 4 wheelers and side by sides. At some point giving government agencies money is like giving a drunk a drink


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TenRing]

I keep asking this question, Fish and Wildlife departments always seem to want and need more money, and I liken it to public schools. Our local public schools keep saying they can’t educate effectively without more money, but when they get money they do things like field turf and new tracks rather than actually putting it toward education. Fish and wildlife departments need more money to improve habitat, but every time they have money they buy new trucks and 4 wheelers and side by sides. At some point giving government agencies money is like giving a drunk a drink


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is where most people are confused about the funding raised by auction/raffle gov tags. That funding doesn’t go to the department for more rigs, pay, etc… the money goes into a grant fund and stays in that fund until used for approved projects. The commissions review and approve all proposed and current projects. All of the projects, as well as where the dollars go are posted on the department’s websites. The raised funds are also matched 3:1 by federal dollars, so 1 mill raised turns into a lot more.

 

[Dirtbag]

Good for him. That one sheep tag is a drop in the bucket. They can give that tag back into the general draw and it isn’t going to make a dent in my draw odds so it doesn’t make a bit of difference to me at all. Of all the things he could choose to spend his money on I’m glad it’s this.

 

[Archer86]

You keep saying they can raise the same amount as the Auction tags with other fund raisers. Please explain how? Both options (Raffle & Auctions) are currently in place and the outcomes are recorded, so none of what I'm saying is theory or speculation. The results over the last decade have proven, without a doubt, that the Auctions out raise the Raffles.

Limit the raffle tags to one per person you will get more people involved.example of this is look at wyoming super tags unlimited purchase and with 10 tags they only got 500k more then the nevada silver state tags and that's only 4 tags. More hunters that care about sheep and more money will come in it's not that difficult to understand. auction tags are in place to give the rich guys there playground they are not doing it for the good of the species.

How do you propose NV replaces the 1.3 Mill from auction tags with a Raffle that currently cannot raise the same amount of funding? They already market the SS tags like crazy: eblasts, mailers, social media posts, etc... yet they still can't get 20% of applicants to apply for the tags. How are they going to get more than double the current applicants to apply for something they aren't interested in and/or can't afford?

If NV advertised those tags outside of hunters that applied in nv they would crush what any auction tag would provide.

Could NV add an additional fee? They would have to add at least $20 per applicant to make up for the auction tags. That stamp/donation couldn't be added to the licenses or tag fees, as that would have to go through legislation. So that would have to be an option when you apply, how many people would check that box to donate?

That 20 per applicant is a kick in the bucket to eliminate auction tags I would be on board with that

Then NV could advertise that with the extra fee they are going to Raffle off tags and everyone that applied in NV gets entered probabaly get more regular applicants as well for elk deer and antelope if they started that