Is There Ever a Time to Hunt with Magnum Calibers?

[FredH]

I’ve shot animals with big guns and small guns. Animals have ran with big guns and small guns. Animals have dropped in one shot with both big guns and small guns. Animals have been dead but have had time to run before dying with big guns and small guns. The only way to maximize your chances of recovering an animal as close as possible to where it’s located when you shoot it is to do the following:
1. Hit it in a lethal spot, like shoulder/neck shoulder junction
2. Keep shooting it in a lethal spot until it is in the ground and not moving

Given all of those things, small guns help you accomplish number 1 and number 2 better than big guns. They help you be a better shooter because they’re easier to shoot and encourage realistic practice. They also are easier to shoot again and again at speed.

Big guns are fine. The only reason you need is “it’s ******* awesome and I like it”. When you bring optimization into the equation and are talking about systems and a wholistic approach to maximizing success (success equals you standing over with a recovered intact animal), that is where big guns start to lose rather rapidly.

So is this a big gun? I don't see the oft repeated argument that small guns are a lot easier to place bullets in a lethal spot.

 

[FredH]

I drove my "big jacked up" Jeep this morning and killed animals with 17 grain VMAX bullets. I even wore a shirt with multiple colors on it. Mega gay.

Are you insinuating those who use small cartridges for hunting are gay? Interesting.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Are you insinuating those who use small cartridges for hunting are gay? Interesting.

Nah I just like the way they make my hand look YUGE!

 

[FredH]

I guess my take on what Form has said is you want a 1.5” wound channel and 14”+ penetration to take any animal in NA. You can do that with a 77g tmk in 223 or you can do that with a 300wm and a 200g partition or many options in between. Up to you what you use, but there is a good chance you will make better shots with the 223. Now a 223 will have less range as it just doesn’t have the same powder capacity or the same bc capabilities.

the question for this thread is with that in mind, where would you want to use a magnum. Personally I use larger calibers because I have to. Ie hunting regulations. But I don’t see any advantage to using a bigger bullet and would use a smaller caliber if allowed. I don’t hunt at long enough ranges to need the extra powder of big cartridges with high bc bullets.

The "make better shots" argument again. Really?

 

[KHntr]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

To be honest, while I enjoy driving my big jacked up Cummins rolling on 35’s, I ALSO enjoy driving my little sporty BMW suv….And truth be told, I drive the suv a lot more because it is a lot more fun, a lot more comfortable to ride in, and does 97% of what I need to do with a vehicle, and the vast majority of time I don’t need to drive a full size diesel crew cab.
In fact, I only truly need a truck that big about 2.7% of the year.
Which is why I have both. So there’s that….

 

[rbutcher1234]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

Jokes on you, already drive a 4Runner

 

[FredH]

See, this is where it goes off the rails. Can you show one post from someone saying that larger calibers and cases should be feared?

You do not need to engage in hyperbole- no one- NOT ONE PERSON has said, or says that larger cartridges are scary.






Do you believe that if you take 100 random hunters, and have them take 100 single shots at targets under hunting “stress” with a 35 Whelen AI; and then take another 100 random hunters, and have them take 100 single shots at those same targets under hunting “stress”- that the hit, miss, and wound rates will be identical between the cartridges?

The stress is the limiting factor. How can you say a person would better hold his crosshairs on target and squeeze a trigger more precisely with his chosen and familiar hunting rifle because it recoils more? Apparently it can be done. I tend to believe an experienced shooter will suffer less from stress than an inexperieced shooter no matter what cartridge his rifle is chambered for. Random hunters? Why not change that to experienced hunters? Or how about taking a shot while holding a rattlesnakes head under a boot. You can choose left or right.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The stress is the limiting factor. How can you say a person would better hold his crosshairs on target and squeeze a trigger more precisely with his chosen and familiar hunting rifle because it recoils more? Apparently it can be done. I tend to believe an experienced shooter will suffer less from stress than an inexperieced shooter no matter what cartridge his rifle is chambered for. Random hunters? Why not change that to experienced hunters? Or how about taking a shot while holding a rattlesnakes head under a boot. You can choose left or right.

 

[Bluefish]

The "make better shots" argument again. Really?

Yes. I shoot my lower recoiling rifles better. I know this and can see it when I switch from a 223 to a 450 bm. Same platform yet groups are significantly larger with the 450. Why, because I don’t practice a lot and am not a great rifle shot. Can magnums be shot well, yes they can, but most people find it harder than with a smaller caliber and less recoil. If you like your 7mm, use it. I don’t like 7mm Prc or rm and don’t shoot either one well.

Ps I drive a Tacoma, but simply because no one makes any full sized truck with a manual transmission.

 

[huntnful]

Honest opinion on when to use Magnum Cartridges.

1. When you like them

2. When you’re willing to shoot far enough for them to be a benefit in impact velocity

3. When you don’t like sucking weiners…. totally kidding . Just 1 & 2 IMO

 

[FredH]

Yes. I shoot my lower recoiling rifles better. I know this and can see it when I switch from a 223 to a 450 bm. Same platform yet groups are significantly larger with the 450. Why, because I don’t practice a lot and am not a great rifle shot. Can magnums be shot well, yes they can, but most people find it harder than with a smaller caliber and less recoil. If you like your 7mm, use it. I don’t like 7mm Prc or rm and don’t shoot either one well.

Possibly your 450 isn't capable of shooting groups as small as your 223. So what you are saying you don't shoot much, are not interested in practice so are not a great rifle shot. And that is why you shoot little guns. Hard to applaud that reasoning but if it works for you........

 

[rbutcher1234]

Honest opinion on when to use Magnum Cartridges.

1. When you like them

2. When you’re willing to shoot far enough for them to be a benefit in impact velocity

3. When you don’t like sucking weiners…. totally kidding . Just 1 & 2 IMO

Finally someone who gets it

 

[bmart2622]

I dont know that the truck comparison is very valid. An F150, Focus, or Tacoma wont pull my horsetrailer, my Duamax does. A 6.5 CM and 300wm both kill an elk

 

[Bluumoon]

Is everyone who is going to a smaller bullet going to start driving little ford focuses or small F150’s, maybe some 2 wheel drive Toyota Tacoma? Don’t need horsepower, little rig will get you there just fine. Maybe even drive it better, easier to park or pass. Better fuel economy. I hope no one’s running big jacked up trucks shooting a .22 cal at an elk….cause then I’d be really confused.

I drive a commuter car unless I need my truck. 35mpg vs 12mpg. So yes...

I don't need a truck to feel manly, waste gas and use up a truck that is more expensive to replace just need to get A to B.

Same argument.

Sometimes I drive the truck and shoot with small calibers just to confuse people.

 

[Bluefish]

Possibly your 450 isn't capable of shooting groups as small as your 223. So what you are saying you don't shoot much, are not interested in practice so are not a great rifle shot. And that is why you shoot little guns. Hard to applaud that reasoning but if it works for you........

Actually I shoot 35 cal rifles or a 45-70 for hunting. Why, because minimum 35 cal by state regs. I have a 25-35 ai in the same platform as my 35 cal and 45-70. I shoot the 25 cal better. I shoot my 25 Prc better than I shot the same rifle with a 7 Prc barrel. I know I shoot better with less recoil.

I am a decent shot, but not exceptional. Not saying I don’t want to be better, but there is only so much time and I have many hobbies. It was almost 3 hrs round trip to the range. Now I found one closer so it’s only 40 min. Will practice more for next year.

 

[5811]

I dont know that the truck comparison is very valid. An F150, Focus, or Tacoma wont pull my horsetrailer, my Duamax does. A 6.5 CM and 300wm both kill an elk

I'd say it's more like tires. Everyone thinks they need deep lug all terrain tires to get around. They look cool and you feel like a real man driving them around. I was in this camp for decades.

Then you get a decent set of road tires on your truck, that you didn't want, and you start pushing it so you can get stuck and blame the tires.

This is going to make people hot, but you definitely don't need off road mud terrain tires. They don't help nearly as much as you think. Once you start pushing road tires in deep snow, FS roads, gravel pits, mud fields, you'd be shocked at what they can do.

Mud tires are loud, drive like sh, get bad mileage, and wear terrible. There's no reason for 99 percent of people who have them, to have them. If you want them to look cool or feel more capable, have at it. But you're not gaining as much as you think.

I know, you're thinking you are a special case, and the way you drive is special, and you really need them.

You're thinking 5811, you just don't push your truck like I do, you just don't understand.

Sound familiar?

 

[hereinaz]

This is spot on.

I'm not the first to say some version of that.

And, anytime you listen to a "wallop" podcast, that is exactly what they say. I've heard it from JVB on two podcasts. One when Hornady sponsored a hunt with 22 creed and 22 ARC and they killed everything with them, JVB tolerated the guest, but had to put out a disclaimer at the end that 22 can kill but it is still too small...

The other was a bison hunt where a dozen or more were guided on a cull hunt. The result was essentially the same whether it was a .243 or bigger, they were strong willed animals that absorbed lots of shots and took a while to die. Ironically, the only one and done was a kid with a 22-250 that brained it with a perfect shot....

 

[06 SB]

There are times for both types IMO. If I was deer hunting in grizzly country or some other place where there are predators larger than me and want to eat me, then yes, a "magnum" would be a better choice than a 243. I used to own and regularly shoot a 338WM and a 375H&H. Both weighed 8.5 pounds full up and ready to shoot. I could shoot them very comfortably. I sold them both because I no longer thought I would be hunting in dangerous territory again. For deer and elk, my 7mm-08, 338Fed and 30-06 are plenty big. "Knock down" power is pretty much a myth. My biggest elk dropped like a rock when I used a 30-06. My longest tracking job was after a similar shot with a 338WM. It was a lethal shot (double lung) but the elk still ran off with a good blood trail. I have had similar results with deer although I tend to see better impact reactions from my 338Fed over a 7mm-08.

In the last century, rangefinders, ballistics calculators and affordable chronographs did not exist and shooting long range was very limited. The maximum point blank range (MPBR) was the common method for western/long range hunting. A magnum stretched out that range nicely. The race for speed dominated the advertisements, culminating with the 28 Nosler. Speed is not all that important anymore but knowing your speed is still critical.