Is the 6.8 western gaining traction or did the 7mm prc finish it off?

[Balderdash]

Man who really cares ? They keep recreating things over and over just to keep you buying new things. 300 PRC doesn't really do anything for a hunter more then a 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 weatherby etc. Heck a fast twist 300 win mag with a large mag box like several factory rifles have can shoot 230 bergers and there won't be much difference then a 300 PRC until you get to ranges beyond ethical hunting.

6.8 western is just a 270 WSM recreated with less recoil and higher BC bullets. A 7prc isn't that much more advanced then a handful of 7mm cartridges.

The main difference is that Hornady really pushes and supports their offerings.

Anyone who buys a 6.8W under the guise that it's less recoil than a 270WSM is going to mighty disappointed by reality.

 

[Lou270]

Anyone who buys a 6.8W under the guise that it's less recoil than a 270WSM is going to mighty disappointed by reality.

The 6.8W has 4 grains less capacity than 270 wsm so technically recoils a bit less though not enough to notice. The 6.8W capacity is around 74gr, 270 wsm is around 78gr and the 7prc is around 83 gr. So the 7prc will be about like 300 wsm or standard factory loaded 300 win mag.m (ie 180@2950). Of course the prc/wsm/6.8 are loaded to hilt and the old 300 can be stepped up a good bit to over 3100 with 180s. I had a 7mm WSM rebarreled to 6,8W and can say the rifle with 6.8W barrel has a but less recoil

Lou

 

[gerry35]

Hmmm, the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 Saum are both short action, light recoiling magnums and both more popular than the 6.8 W

6.5 SAUM is not very popular the 6.5 PRC is and filled that slot and will eventually finish it off. The SAUM will live on with handloaders though.

In general on this thread I'm not sure why there is hate for a good round in the 6.8 Western. I chose it over the 7 PRC since I like the 277 bore better and have lots of bullets already. I think the 7 PRC is a good round and considered it but don't like what goes on with Hornady so passed.

There's no reason we can't have the 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western and 7 PRC all succeed. There's a lot more people that like the 270 cal than some of you think.

 

[gerry35]

Thought this was good and should be an interesting series on 4 popular 7mm cartridges. The 7 PRC is a good one and will do well I think but at the same time Hornady lied about how much speed it gets.,

 

[bmart2622]

Youre right, the PRC is definitely more popular but the Saum fills that "niche" that was mentioned in prior posts and has better support than the 6.8W, mainly in brass options. I also agree that there is room for both, I just dont understand why it seems that if you like the 6.8W then the 7 Prc sucks and offers nothing. I also dont understand the argument that the 6.8W is great because you can shoot heavy for caliber high BC bullets yet in the same breath, the 7 PRC will not last because it offers nothing over the 7RM.

 

[Felix40]

I was kind of interested in the 6.8W when it came out. After digging into it a little more I just can’t see how it will stick around. I think the 6.5 PRC is going to kill it dead. The 6.5 shoots flatter, has more higher BC bullets available, has less recoil, has cheaper ammo, and more rifles are chambered in it. Just speaking ballistically, the 6.5 does everything better. To top it off, the track record of Hornady’s eldx and eldm are very very positive in regards to being consistently accurate, killing critters effectively, being available, and not costing an arm and a leg. When I bought my 6.5 I just ordered 10 boxes of precision hunter with the expectation that it would shoot good, kill good, and be available when I need to buy more. It’s the easy button. I don’t think the 6.8W really has that going for it.

The 7PRC…I don’t know. It’s more recoil than I want to deal with but I can see how the Hornady marketing machine could keep it around long term. It’s going to take forever to climb to the top of the 7s though.

 

[Lou270]

I was kind of interested in the 6.8W when it came out. After digging into it a little more I just can’t see how it will stick around. I think the 6.5 PRC is going to kill it dead. The 6.5 shoots flatter, has more higher BC bullets available, has less recoil, has cheaper ammo, and more rifles are chambered in it. Just speaking ballistically, the 6.5 does everything better. To top it off, the track record of Hornady’s eldx and eldm are very very positive in regards to being consistently accurate, killing critters effectively, being available, and not costing an arm and a leg. When I bought my 6.5 I just ordered 10 boxes of precision hunter with the expectation that it would shoot good, kill good, and be available when I need to buy more. It’s the easy button. I don’t think the 6.8W really has that going for it.

The 7PRC…I don’t know. It’s more recoil than I want to deal with but I can see how the Hornady marketing machine could keep it around long term. It’s going to take forever to climb to the top of the 7s though.

I agree the 6.5 prc is bigger “risk” to 6.8 W success than 7 prc. The 6.8w was not concieved to compete with a long action 7mm. The 6.8W was built to give a heavy bullet alternative to 6.5s in a short action without heavy recoil which it does very well. Hunters have overwhelmingly migrated to SA rounds while competition guys will do LA even with a SA cartridge just to get more magazine space. 99% hunters could care less about that and just want things to work

A better comparison for 7prc is 28 Nosler. While I agree on several other points, ballistically the 6.8W does do something different than 6.5prc. It hits harder with heavier bullets with similar drift/drop at the expense of little more recoil. I think that alone is enough to help 6.8W do ok though I dont think it will be as popular as 6.5 prc due to higher recoil. I often think of the 6.5 prc as modern 270 and 6.8W as modern 30-06 - similar starting speeds, bulet weights, recoil but holds on to velocity a bit better at longer ranges. So behave like a tradional 270/3006 up close and more like a traditional 270/300 mag at longer ranges all in a short action/lighter recoil package

Lou

 

[gerry35]

Youre right, the PRC is definitely more popular but the Saum fills that "niche" that was mentioned in prior posts and has better support than the 6.8W, mainly in brass options. I also agree that there is room for both, I just dont understand why it seems that if you like the 6.8W then the 7 Prc sucks and offers nothing. I also dont understand the argument that the 6.8W is great because you can shoot heavy for caliber high BC bullets yet in the same breath, the 7 PRC will not last because it offers nothing over the 7RM.

I'm not sure what anyone else said about the 7 PRC but I'm not against it and actually considered it. The 6.8 Western fits what I want to do, excellent performance without a lot of recoil. The 7 PRC is a step above since it has more case capacity, the 6.8 Western is more like a 277 version of a 280 AI when it comes to performance. Exactly what I wanted. There are several threads here saying the 7 PRC is going to "slay" the 6.8 Western. Why can't they both be good, just pick the one you like and enjoy. What's true is the 6.8 Western is very competitive when it compared to the 6.5 and 7 PRC and does well.

 

[bmart2622]

I'm not sure what anyone else said about the 7 PRC but I'm not against it and actually considered it. The 6.8 Western fits what I want to do, excellent performance without a lot of recoil. The 7 PRC is a step above since it has more case capacity, the 6.8 Western is more like a 277 version of a 280 AI when it comes to performance. Exactly what I wanted. There are several threads here saying the 7 PRC is going to "slay" the 6.8 Western. Why can't they both be good, just pick the one you like and enjoy. What's true is the 6.8 Western is very competitive when it compared to the 6.5 and 7 PRC and does well.

I dont believe you did, I agree with you except Id pick the 7 PRC and probably a 6.5 PRC or Saum over all of them

 

[gerry35]

I dont believe you did, I agree with you except Id pick the 7 PRC and probably a 6.5 PRC or Saum over all of them

Sure, that's why they make them all, we all can pick the one we like.

 

[Balderdash]

The 6.8W has 4 grains less capacity than 270 wsm so technically recoils a bit less though not enough to notice. The 6.8W capacity is around 74gr, 270 wsm is around 78gr and the 7prc is around 83 gr. So the 7prc will be about like 300 wsm or standard factory loaded 300 win mag.m (ie 180@2950). Of course the prc/wsm/6.8 are loaded to hilt and the old 300 can be stepped up a good bit to over 3100 with 180s. I had a 7mm WSM rebarreled to 6,8W and can say the rifle with 6.8W barrel has a but less recoil

Lou

Well, sure, but it's flinging bullets that are 20-30 grn heavier, which will make it a heavier recoiler, all else as far as rifle design and weight being equal.

 

[Gila]

Guess we still agree to disagree. I’d bet that on this forum, there are likely more members with tikkas with aftermarket 7 prc barrels than all 6.8 western rifles, factory or aftermarket combined. A factory tikka 7prc would sell like hotcakes.
And 90 percent of the handloaders that post about their loads for the 7prc, are using 175-180 gr bullets that the 7 prc was designed for, which fit perfectly in tikkas mags. 180 Berger vld touching lands is 3.34” in a Sammi chamber. Don’t know why you keep ignoring these facts.

Nosler and weatherby also came out with factory 7 prc ammo giving the prc the edge to current factory offerings, expensive but offerings nonetheless.

Unfortunately you aren’t in possession of all of the facts! The 7 PRC was designed to shoot 185 to 195 low drag bullets. That is the why the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber has a free bore of .233. That is why the 7 PRC case is 2.280“. That is why the 7 PRC must be a Long Action Cartridge. The math works out that the 175 and 180 factory ammo are jumping alooong ways in the 7 PRC….

The maximum SAAMI cartridge length for a long action is 3.34”. All long action factory ammunition cannot exceed 3.34”. That is why you won’t see any 7 PRC heavy for caliber, high BC bullets in factory ammunition. That is why you will not see any high BC bullets heavier than 180 gr in 7 PRC factory ammunition.

A standard long action tikka mag is limited to a cartridge length of 3.37”. You can get after market mags that will give 3.40”. To reliably feed in a Tikka T3x action, the maximum cartridge length possible is 3.47”. But to get that 3.46-47” you will need to either drop the barreled action into a chassis or get AICS bottom metal and carve out the mag well inlet on a factory T3x stock. Either way you look at it it is a $700+ modification and you still won’t be able to effectively load the .284 heavies in a T3x Action.

This is what Ryan Furman (Long Range Only) has to say about the 7 PRC:

”At SAAMI length, the 7mm PRC will fit inside the 3.4” magazine boxes of last century’s design in SAAMI form. With the larger bullets, it will exceed the 3.4” magazine, but will not need a Wyatt’s box.”
The math works out better with this load: “180 Berger Hybrid - 020 off the lands 3.433" COAL in a SAAMI chamber. This is a sub .5 mo load but not quite as accurate as the lower node with the 180
Hybrid and H1000”

7MM PRC Cartridge Guide - Long Range Only

DISCLAIMER: This is a guide. Everything listed within is for information purposes only. All loads should be worked up carefully. We have seen loads that require as much as two grains of charge weight adjustment from one powder lot to another. We have seen as much as five grains of powder...

www.longrangeonly.com

190 A-Tip

 

[bmart2622]

So let them jump!! UM is coming out with a 3.6" Tikka mag, problem solved. Theres quite a few people who have built 7 PRCs on Tikka action and are having great success, its not as difficult as you make it sound

 

[bmart2622]

So Hornady, a company that manufacturers factory ammo, designed the 7 PRC to shoot best not using factory ammo?!?!

 

[Balderdash]

Unfortunately you aren’t in possession of all of the facts! The 7 PRC was designed to shoot 185 to 195 low drag bullets. That is the why the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber has a free bore of .233. That is why the 7 PRC case is 2.280“. That is why the 7 PRC must be a Long Action Cartridge. The math works out that the 175 and 180 factory ammo are jumping alooong ways in the 7 PRC….

The maximum SAAMI cartridge length for a long action is 3.34”. All long action factory ammunition cannot exceed 3.34”. That is why you won’t see any 7 PRC heavy for caliber, high BC bullets in factory ammunition. That is why you will not see any high BC bullets heavier than 180 gr in 7 PRC factory ammunition.

A standard long action tikka mag is limited to a cartridge length of 3.37”. You can get after market mags that will give 3.40”. To reliably feed in a Tikka T3x action, the maximum cartridge length possible is 3.47”. But to get that 3.46-47” you will need to either drop the barreled action into a chassis or get AICS bottom metal and carve out the mag well inlet on a factory T3x stock. Either way you look at it it is a $700+ modification and you still won’t be able to effectively load the .284 heavies in a T3x Action.

This is what Ryan Furman (Long Range Only) has to say about the 7 PRC:

”At SAAMI length, the 7mm PRC will fit inside the 3.4” magazine boxes of last century’s design in SAAMI form. With the larger bullets, it will exceed the 3.4” magazine, but will not need a Wyatt’s box.”
The math works out better with this load: “180 Berger Hybrid - 020 off the lands 3.433" COAL in a SAAMI chamber. This is a sub .5 mo load but not quite as accurate as the lower node with the 180
Hybrid and H1000”

7MM PRC Cartridge Guide - Long Range Only

DISCLAIMER: This is a guide. Everything listed within is for information purposes only. All loads should be worked up carefully. We have seen loads that require as much as two grains of charge weight adjustment from one powder lot to another. We have seen as much as five grains of powder...

www.longrangeonly.com

190 A-Tip

View attachment 673622

How are 175-180 .284 bullets with a BC's in the high .7's or better not considered high BC, long for caliber bullets?

We might have hashed this out in the past, I don't fully recall; but for all posterity, I'll state it here that it's not much of a hassle to get 3.7" AICS mags to work flawlessly in a Tikka - It takes 3 things: Clearance notch in feed ramp, new bottom metal, longer bolt stop.

Just the same, I wouldn't waste my time and effott doing so for a 7PRC Tikka. It's already designed to shoot some of the highest BC bullets available at 3.34. Any differences with slightly longer COAL will likely be trivial. I run a Tikka 7mmRM with an AICS conversion. Was built before the 7prc was even rumored. Most of time I shoot the OEM precision hunter 162's because they are readily available, group great, and I like to pull the trigger more than load. Before I fitted the AICS conversion, I ran 175 ELD-X at 3.34 with great accuracy and little velocity loss.

 

[Gila]

So Hornady, a company that manufacturers factory ammo, designed the 7 PRC to shoot best not using factory ammo?!?!

Makes no sense to me either….

 

[bmart2622]

Probably because its not an accurate statement

 

[Formidilosus]

Unfortunately you aren’t in possession of all of the facts! The 7 PRC was designed to shoot 185 to 195 low drag bullets. That is the why the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber has a free bore of .233. That is why the 7 PRC case is 2.280“. That is why the 7 PRC must be a Long Action Cartridge. The math works out that the 175 and 180 factory ammo are jumping alooong ways in the 7 PRC….

The maximum SAAMI cartridge length for a long action is 3.34”. All long action factory ammunition cannot exceed 3.34”. That is why you won’t see any 7 PRC heavy for caliber, high BC bullets in factory ammunition. That is why you will not see any high BC bullets heavier than 180 gr in 7 PRC factory ammunition.

A standard long action tikka mag is limited to a cartridge length of 3.37”. You can get after market mags that will give 3.40”. To reliably feed in a Tikka T3x action, the maximum cartridge length possible is 3.47”. But to get that 3.46-47” you will need to either drop the barreled action into a chassis or get AICS bottom metal and carve out the mag well inlet on a factory T3x stock. Either way you look at it it is a $700+ modification and you still won’t be able to effectively load the .284 heavies in a T3x Action.

This is what Ryan Furman (Long Range Only) has to say about the 7 PRC:

”At SAAMI length, the 7mm PRC will fit inside the 3.4” magazine boxes of last century’s design in SAAMI form. With the larger bullets, it will exceed the 3.4” magazine, but will not need a Wyatt’s box.”
The math works out better with this load: “180 Berger Hybrid - 020 off the lands 3.433" COAL in a SAAMI chamber. This is a sub .5 mo load but not quite as accurate as the lower node with the 180
Hybrid and H1000”

7MM PRC Cartridge Guide - Long Range Only

DISCLAIMER: This is a guide. Everything listed within is for information purposes only. All loads should be worked up carefully. We have seen loads that require as much as two grains of charge weight adjustment from one powder lot to another. We have seen as much as five grains of powder...

www.longrangeonly.com

190 A-Tip

View attachment 673622

You keep repeating this and you keep quoting him and it’s wrong, at least functionally. I have shot several 7PRC Tikkas, and there are tons made. They work just fine and shoot as well anything. This is nothing but an issue that reloading dorks have made about something that isn’t true functionally a problem. The 180gr ELD-M is the high BC 7mm hunting bullet and the 7PRC is designed to shoot it correctly in factory ammo.

Beyond that, a 7PRC loaded with 180gr ELD-M’s at 3.34” COAL, outperforms terminally and external ballistically every single possible combination of the 6.8 Western. So what is your point?

The 6.8 Western is cool. It suffers from no comparable bullets to 6.5mm and 7mm, and two companies that have no idea how to make, sell, and support a modern cartridge.

 

[Bfish22]

Unfortunately you aren’t in possession of all of the facts! The 7 PRC was designed to shoot 185 to 195 low drag bullets. That is the why the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber has a free bore of .233. That is why the 7 PRC case is 2.280“. That is why the 7 PRC must be a Long Action Cartridge. The math works out that the 175 and 180 factory ammo are jumping alooong ways in the 7 PRC….

The maximum SAAMI cartridge length for a long action is 3.34”. All long action factory ammunition cannot exceed 3.34”. That is why you won’t see any 7 PRC heavy for caliber, high BC bullets in factory ammunition. That is why you will not see any high BC bullets heavier than 180 gr in 7 PRC factory ammunition.

A standard long action tikka mag is limited to a cartridge length of 3.37”. You can get after market mags that will give 3.40”. To reliably feed in a Tikka T3x action, the maximum cartridge length possible is 3.47”. But to get that 3.46-47” you will need to either drop the barreled action into a chassis or get AICS bottom metal and carve out the mag well inlet on a factory T3x stock. Either way you look at it it is a $700+ modification and you still won’t be able to effectively load the .284 heavies in a T3x Action.

This is what Ryan Furman (Long Range Only) has to say about the 7 PRC:

”At SAAMI length, the 7mm PRC will fit inside the 3.4” magazine boxes of last century’s design in SAAMI form. With the larger bullets, it will exceed the 3.4” magazine, but will not need a Wyatt’s box.”
The math works out better with this load: “180 Berger Hybrid - 020 off the lands 3.433" COAL in a SAAMI chamber. This is a sub .5 mo load but not quite as accurate as the lower node with the 180
Hybrid and H1000”

7MM PRC Cartridge Guide - Long Range Only

DISCLAIMER: This is a guide. Everything listed within is for information purposes only. All loads should be worked up carefully. We have seen loads that require as much as two grains of charge weight adjustment from one powder lot to another. We have seen as much as five grains of powder...

www.longrangeonly.com

190 A-Tip

View attachment 673622

Unfortunately you aren’t in possession of all of the facts! The 7 PRC was designed to shoot 185 to 195 low drag bullets. That is the why the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber has a free bore of .233. That is why the 7 PRC case is 2.280“. That is why the 7 PRC must be a Long Action Cartridge. The math works out that the 175 and 180 factory ammo are jumping alooong ways in the 7 PRC….

The maximum SAAMI cartridge length for a long action is 3.34”. All long action factory ammunition cannot exceed 3.34”. That is why you won’t see any 7 PRC heavy for caliber, high BC bullets in factory ammunition. That is why you will not see any high BC bullets heavier than 180 gr in 7 PRC factory ammunition.

A standard long action tikka mag is limited to a cartridge length of 3.37”. You can get after market mags that will give 3.40”. To reliably feed in a Tikka T3x action, the maximum cartridge length possible is 3.47”. But to get that 3.46-47” you will need to either drop the barreled action into a chassis or get AICS bottom metal and carve out the mag well inlet on a factory T3x stock. Either way you look at it it is a $700+ modification and you still won’t be able to effectively load the .284 heavies in a T3x Action.

This is what Ryan Furman (Long Range Only) has to say about the 7 PRC:

”At SAAMI length, the 7mm PRC will fit inside the 3.4” magazine boxes of last century’s design in SAAMI form. With the larger bullets, it will exceed the 3.4” magazine, but will not need a Wyatt’s box.”
The math works out better with this load: “180 Berger Hybrid - 020 off the lands 3.433" COAL in a SAAMI chamber. This is a sub .5 mo load but not quite as accurate as the lower node with the 180
Hybrid and H1000”

7MM PRC Cartridge Guide - Long Range Only

DISCLAIMER: This is a guide. Everything listed within is for information purposes only. All loads should be worked up carefully. We have seen loads that require as much as two grains of charge weight adjustment from one powder lot to another. We have seen as much as five grains of powder...

www.longrangeonly.com

190 A-Tip

View attachment 673622

I’ve read the LRO article many times and compared Ryan’s measurements to many other shooters coal touching lands with the same bullets, and Ryan’s measurements are about .080” longer than everyone else’s. Ryan’s chamber was cut a larger lead and throat dimensions and longer measurement to the throat if you compare the 7prc aw reamer to saami. This maybe allows his coal to be longer touching lands. Anyways, I’ve compared his lengths to many others with the same bullets before deciding on what reamer to use, as well as my sammi prc chamber with a couple of the same bullets, and Ryan’s measurements are longer than any other that I’ve seen across multiple forums. I’ve tried having this converstion with you and you just ignore these facts….
I also would think that hornady designed the prc to shoot the 175-180 gr bullets, you know, the ammo that they sell. Alright I’m done.

 

[TaperPin]

You're very right. 7 STW had better ballistics thirty years ago then a lot of these new fandangled cartridges. I never understood why it didn't have more of a following.

I’ve wondered the same thing. Funny how hard it is to figure out what works and what doesn’t.

However, I might be typical of why it didn’t take off. When it came out I was quite happy with a 7 Rem mag for deer/antelope and like most of my friends had a heavier caliber for elk, so we thought of it as no better for elk than a 300/8rem/338 and a step up in recoil without a significant advantage over the 7 Rem mag. Even when a 7 Rem needed a new barrel and all it would take to switch over to the STW was new dies and brass, I stayed with the smaller cartridge.

A buddy wanted a long range elk smacker about the time the STW came out, but there was a decent amount of marketing behind the 8mm Rem mag so he went that way.

I‘m not a fan of introducing new cartridges so similar in capacity to older ones simply to change a few chamber clearances and put a name on it, but Hornady is making so much money doing it there’s probably a whole list of cartridges in the works that the public doesn’t know about yet.