Is it all Leopolds

[Nards444]

Read up a little on how SOCOM selects their weapons and support systems….

Yeah SOCOM hand selects stuff. Your standard sniper in an infantry company not so much.

Will say this though most weaponry components have been pretty good going back the last 20 years or so. Will also say with the acog most guys would be qualified snipers from 50-70 years ago.

I think people also miss terminology. Sniper means more then shooting its stealth, concealment, scouting etc. the army’s standard to to get the tab was fairly rigorous.

This isn’t to down anybody but the snipers we had I would say were good shooters, but wouldn’t necessarily say they were anything better at shooting then some of us and definitely wouldn’t look at them as an authority on anything. But I’m also talking basic infantry unit snipers, SOCOM guys I watched them and those guys are pretty good

 

[C Bow]

I agree was being a SA. Drop test. Some things don't make sense to me like dropping your weapon on purpose, letting someone borrow your weapon, or your bird dog wife maybe

 

[Formidilosus]

Yeah SOCOM hand selects stuff. Your standard sniper in an infantry company not so much.

Will say this though most weaponry components have been pretty good going back the last 20 years or so. Will also say with the acog most guys would be qualified snipers from 50-70 years ago.

I think people also miss terminology. Sniper means more then shooting its stealth, concealment, scouting etc. the army’s standard to to get the tab was fairly rigorous.

This isn’t to down anybody but the snipers we had I would say were good shooters, but wouldn’t necessarily say they were anything better at shooting then some of us and definitely wouldn’t look at them as an authority on anything. But I’m also talking basic infantry unit snipers, SOCOM guys I watched them and those guys are pretty good

How does SOCOM “hand select” stuff? Who in SOCOM gets to “hand select” their equipment?

 

[C Bow]

As Gunny Hathcock said anyone can learn to shoot if they apply themself. But not everyone can be comfortable in the woods alone for long periods of time

 

[Nards444]

How does SOCOM “hand select” stuff? Who in SOCOM gets to “hand select” their equipment?

Been in DoD acquisition for a min. SOCOM doesn’t have to follow typical FAR rules or do the lowest bidder. That’s hand selecting my friend. SOCOM also has co developed equipment with manufactures.

Now does private snuffy get to walk into Cabelas and get what he wants, no and that’s not what I’m saying. But whoever runs SOCOM is afforded a lot of leeway in what gear they get

 

[C Bow]

I know Teir 1 operators at Delta that use what they want

 

[T_Widdy]

Here is what my new mk4hd has done this month from just riding in the truck. Mine can not be trusted, getting pulled.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I don’t how much to read into the non durability of leupold. Is this across all models. I’m looking at the mark 5

You asked “is it ALL leupolds” No, clearly not ALL. But many of us have had bad experiences with them over the years. Which can then be replicated with a little testing. Then we go read about many other people experiencing the same thing. It’s not hard to understand why many people start to advise others who are serious about their gear to avoid the brand. If that makes a “cultist” in some people’s eyes, then they think critical thinking is a cult behavior.

I wish they were more reliable. They make the perfect hunting scopes on paper. I just won’t ever trust one again. Missed a 190+ buck at 240 yards that I’d hunted for 12 days between archery and rifle. Checked zero when I got out of the mountains. Had shifted low by 4”@100 yards. Never dropped or fell on the scope/gun.

Guys who have never had a problem with theirs read these threads and get hot under the collar. Good luck to them, I wish I’d had the same experience with my leupolds. Hopefully theirs remain true and never cost them an animal.


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[JackButler]

I never said that. I said using “military snipers” and PRS folks as an appeal to authority is a shit argument.

It’s less than perfect but much better than “some random internet guys say leupold scopes won’t hold zero”. With no empirical evidence of their setups or the myriad of other variables that could be at play.

I hate to even have to go here but… As an example, my youngest brother was a SF “military sniper”… If you had any idea what it took to “qualify” for this you’d immediately quit using them as an appeal to authority.

They shoot long range and are tough on equipment. I’d trust socom using leupolds for 25 years more than I’d trust some guy that obviously doesn’t like leupolds.

 

[JackButler]

Here is what my new mk4hd has done this month from just riding in the truck. Mine can not be trusted, getting pulled. View attachment 795180
View attachment 795182

That doesn’t look great, but a number of things could cause that. I guess after you pull it, do the exact same test with the replacement and compare. But even that would just be a sample size of one.

 

[BBob]

You asked “is it ALL leupolds” No, clearly not ALL. But many of us have had bad experiences with them over the years. Which can then be replicated with a little testing. Then we go read about many other people experiencing the same thing. It’s not hard to understand why many people start to advise others who are serious about their gear to avoid the brand. If that makes a “cultist” in some people’s eyes, then they think critical thinking is a cult behavior.

I haven't read all of this thread but out of what I have read that's the best post. It sums it up perfectly and cordially. That post has been pretty much my experience with Leupold as well. I still have one, it somehow has not failed but many others did so those went away and I've been too gun shy to ever buy another.

 

[Jake Larsen]

It’s less than perfect but much better than “some random internet guys say leupold scopes won’t hold zero”. With no empirical evidence of their setups or the myriad of other variables that could be at play.

They shoot long range and are tough on equipment. I’d trust socom using leupolds for 25 years more than I’d trust some guy that obviously doesn’t like leupolds.

Empirical evidence of leupold issues HAS been produced. And some of us DO know how to set up a rifle property and remove the other potential variables. When I have a rifle with a leupld that won’t track on a simple tall target test and return to zero, then throw on a different brand and have the problem disappear…it’s the scope.

As far as hating Leupold - they’ve been my favorite scopes by far I’ve used. Awesome eye box, weight, form factor, glass clarity. Everything about them is dang near perfect, with the exception of MIL based reticles. I liked every one i owned way more than the Nightforce NSX I have on my rifles now. But you know what I dislike more than the 20oz Nightforce that doesn’t have the best eye relief or reticle? Missing


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[Jake Larsen]

That doesn’t look great, but a number of things could cause that. I guess after you pull it, do the exact same test with the replacement and compare. But even that would just be a sample size of one.

Sample size of 1 x a LOT of other people who have experienced and posted THE EXACT SAME THING. For years. On multiple forums.


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[Yukon Cornelius]

Instead of nebulous terms and general non-specific statements to misrepresent what people are saying, let’s get specific- who exactly is a “hater” of Leupold? Name them. Then, can you quote them “hating” Leupold for some evidence?

Why don’t you go cherry pick some more data?

The only real thing you can do to address your concerns is mount it up and abuse the crap out of it. See if the zero shifts. If it doesn't, run it.

Only problem is the leupold I have mounted has endured the abuse. More than any drop test.

Granted only shoot about 100 rounds a year with my hunting rifle.

I shoot the shit out of my 22s (all have leupolds) and my ARs (just red dots or iron sights).

My hunting rifles is a box every other month or so.

 

[UpNorth89]

It still seems like many people believe their scope didn't fail because they successfully killed an animal. If you killed an animal even though your scope slightly lost zero it still failed.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Yeah SOCOM hand selects stuff. Your standard sniper in an infantry company not so much.

Will say this though most weaponry components have been pretty good going back the last 20 years or so. Will also say with the acog most guys would be qualified snipers from 50-70 years ago.

I think people also miss terminology. Sniper means more then shooting its stealth, concealment, scouting etc. the army’s standard to to get the tab was fairly rigorous.

This isn’t to down anybody but the snipers we had I would say were good shooters, but wouldn’t necessarily say they were anything better at shooting then some of us and definitely wouldn’t look at them as an authority on anything. But I’m also talking basic infantry unit snipers, SOCOM guys I watched them and those guys are pretty good

Let’s not forget the designated marksmen that claim to be snipers.

Big difference between STA and line sniper.

For the record…I was not a recon Marine. Nor a sniper. I was just a combat engineer that went to sapper school.

I also am not a great shot. I just get it done.
I also want a light weight scope that won’t fail me.
I’m part of three cults currently. But none are the RokSlide cults.

In fairness, buy whatever scope you want. Be a part of whatever cult you want to be. Shoot whatever brand rifle you want to.

 

[JollyRoger]

Here is what my new mk4hd has done this month from just riding in the truck. Mine can not be trusted, getting pulled. View attachment 795180
View attachment 795182

Same lot # for the ammo? I only ask because I’ve seen some pretty big velocity differences between lots of ammo (143gr 6.5CM Norma Golden Target in my case).

 

[T_Widdy]

Same lot # for the ammo? I only ask because I’ve seen some pretty big velocity differences between lots of ammo (143gr 6.5CM Norma Golden Target in my case).

On 11-14 I had to break into my new lot. That’s why I shot a 30 shot group. All the lots I have had so far have been the same average

 

[wind gypsy]

So military snipers and professional long range shooters know less than you. Got it.

A friend of mine that is a pretty well known guy in the precision rifle industry told me a decade ago to skip leupold because of how many mk6 “work” scopes were failing when he was running the sniper school for for one of the green beret groups.

Last gen mk4 were notorious for failing. Particularly among former military snipers still in the precision rifle industry that know better beyond their issues equipment. Below is a quote from Frank Galli that’s something like a decade old. A few years ago when I was in one of his classes and a brand new mk5 failed to adjust and started ghost clicking, he repeated that he sees a lot of the mk5s failing still but not as much as the old mk4s.

 

[JohnJohnson]

And even pro PRS shooters in 2024 prefer scopes that don’t t hold zero I guess.

That's really not how things work for the PRS. Certain companies do more to sponsor top shooters than others. Leupold are pretty generous with their sponsorships (same with Vortex). With top ones having free scopes and even some travel/match fees paid for. Whereas Tangent Theta, second on that list with almost half the top 10 shooters, doesn't sponsor anyone at all that I'm aware of. ZCO is kind of an in between where they mostly don't do sponsorships but for a few guys they'll come to back room arrangements that save them a little money. Unsure on Nightforce's situation regarding PRS sponsorships.

Zero shift for PRS doesn't really mean as much as it does for hunters. You can re-zero your rifle before the match starts and from that point the scope likely won't be experiencing much abuse unless you manage to knock it into something. And you're shooting at steel while playing a game.