Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Greenbelt]

Yes, recoil is a down side. Almost any centerfire rifle with the right bullet will quickly kill any animal with a well placed shot. A big bullet going fast won’t kill quickly with a bad shot. After seeing big bullets not just knock over an animal even with good shot placement, I started researching why. Turns out the bullet construction and velocity is much more important than the caliber.

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

What down sides are those? Immediately killing the animal with a well placed shot? The downsides would be the kick back I assume. I don't hate 6.5's. But if you can carry something that absolutely will kill something why would you not?

What North American animal is going to survive a hit from a 6.5 PRC but a hit in the same spot from a 7 PRC, 28 Nosler, etc. will kill it?


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[Q_Sertorius]

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

Most hunters should not be shooting at elk with anything at 700 yards.


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[Bluefish]

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

I would agree, I have no business shooting any living thing at 700 yards. I don’t shoot enough at distance to make that shot with a high enough probability of a first round hit.

I am a guy who has built a 7rm and a 7 prc and sold both as I hated them. Could not shoot them well and more recoil than I want to deal with. I find I shoot better with less recoil and I am really enjoying my 25 prc.

 

[Chris in TN]

Most hunters should not be shooting at elk with anything at 700 yards.


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I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

It’s hard to fight the idea that a more powerful cartridge doesn’t give you a larger margin for error. It is false confidence.

To the extent that using a more powerful rifle with more recoil and more expensive ammo makes practice less likely, it is counterproductive.

Not sure I agree with your exact formula, but there is something to it.


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[LongWayAround]

I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

That’s one problem with the formula, for sure. The other is that it is just based on volume.

For me, if the shooter can’t hit an 8-moa target 10/10 times at that range under field conditions, he is past his maximum range for that shooting position. You can change that to 10-moa for elk, I guess.


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[Chris in TN]

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

I was serious about it just being a spitball. Whether the factor is 5x or 10x or 3x, I don't know, nor do I think it's really that reducible. I'm simply pointing out that there's some relationship between practice (for someone who has workable fundamentals to begin with) and effective distance. You can't buy that skillset at the gunstore. You earn it a few yards at at time.

ETA: And I say that as a guy who isn't dedicated to long range shooting. I do it every now and then but of late I have been focused on other things.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I was serious about it just being a spitball. Whether the factor is 5x or 10x or 3x, I don't know, nor do I think it's really that reducible. I'm simply pointing out that there's some relationship between practice (for someone who has workable fundamentals to begin with) and effective distance. You can't buy that skillset at the gunstore. You earn it a few yards at at time.

ETA: And I say that as a guy who isn't dedicated to long range shooting. I do it every now and then but of late I have been focused on other things.

Yeah, I totally understand that it was just spitballing.


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[HandgunHTR]

That’s one problem with the formula, for sure. The other is that it is just based on volume.

For me, if the shooter can’t hit an 8-moa target 10/10 times at that range under field conditions, he is past his maximum range for that shooting position. You can change that to 10-moa for elk, I guess.


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While I understand what you are saying, you do realize that a 10-MOA target at 800 yards is an 83.76" circle, right?

I think what you meant to say is that unless they can hit a 8" or 10" target at their chosen distance, but feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

While I understand what you are saying, you do realize that a 10-MOA target at 800 yards is an 83.76" circle, right?

I think what you meant to say is that unless they can hit a 8" or 10" target at their chosen distance, but feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.

You are correct.


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