Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Liftman101]

I recently shot my first Elk. The guide insisted I use a .30 cal instead of my 6.5 PRC. I obliged with my 30-06 Tikka. The big bull went 3 steps. Great day.

It started me thinking about cartridges. My 6.5 PRC is a Proof Elevation MTR 24" bbl. For me, It is the most accurate rifle I own. It loves the Berger 156 gr EOL that I purchased from Choice and achieves 3010 fps. It shoots UM loaded 147 ELD-m at 2975 fps. My Carbon Six 24" barreled 30-06 Tikka groups 165 gr Accubonds very well at 2940 fps and shoots Barnes 168 gr TTSX even faster at 3025 fps. My friend has a Tikka 24" 7mm Rem Mag that shoots factory 162 gr ELD-x at 2925 fps.

I realize I am comparing different bullets and factory ammo to semi-custom ammo but these are the cartridges I personally saw chronographed. After entering the info in a ballistics calculator, the 6.5 PRC, at 300 yards, has considerably more velocity then any of the others. It has more energy, less drop and less drift plus a higher sectional density. Because of the higher BC bullets the 6.5 PRC has an even bigger advantage at 400 and 500 yards.

Is the 6.5 PRC really the marginal cartridge for Elk simply because it is 6 gr less weight and .020 less diameter? Is the issue that most feel the 180 gr bullet in the 06 or the 7mm is a much better choice for bigger game?

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

There’s hundreds of photos posted here of elk and moose killed with much smaller bullets, and much slower 6.5s

 

[fuzzymarindave]

Its rarely the wrong answer to buy another rifle. You could add a 28 Nosler to your collection and you have more choices. Congrats on the bull elk..

 

[SDHNTR]

Step back and think about the absurdity here… .5 millimeter is going to make a real world difference? Place any one of those bullets into the vitals of an elk and you will experience the exact same results. Dead. Nothing even remotely marginal about it.

 

[Macintosh]

I was invited on a hunt on a private ranch several years ago. Our host insisted on a 30cal as well, and was busy citing 1500ftlb of energy, etc. Yet he was clearly not being objective about it becasue he said a 300winmag is a 600 yard rifle, a 30-06 is barely a 300 yard rifle, despite using the exact same bullet impacting at exactly the same velocity as the winmag does, well past 300 yards...then he insisted a 7mm-08 would be limited to sub-100 yards effectiveness, while claiming a 7mm mag was also a 500-600 yard gun, again despite the fact that the exact same bullet at the exact same impact velocity would indicate otherwise. It was easier for me in the particular situation to simply bring my 30-06, which, no surprise, worked just fine.

I dont have the breadth of experience to answer the question, but I DO have the experience with data and people to say that a lot of very experienced and very well-meaning people dont look at their experiences objectively, dont account for important variables, routinely draw conclusions that in reality are not supported by the info they do have, and dont have the desire to change or even question what has worked for them, and so they dismiss things outright that are perfectly valid based on spurious correlations or just not understanding some aspect of what they have seen. I can't say for certain thats what is happening here, but comparing the folks I know insisting on a bigger bore, compared to the hundreds of detailed autopsy photos on this website, I have a pretty strong suspicion of where the truth lies.

 

[justin davis]

I think the prc is very adequate for elk

 

[Liftman101]

I love small and fast. I have a 6 UM on order. I am just confused by my Elk guide and the PH for next year in Africa is dead set against a 6.5 PRC or the 6 UM. I guess I will show him Ryan's Giraffe story.

Always looking for an excuse to get another rifle. In fact I have a base Tikka 7 rem mag NIB in my closet that I bought for my 6 UM build and ended up switching to a stainless action. In this case, I was surprised because looking at the data, the 6.5 PRC is the better cartridge once you get past 300 yards

 

[TaperPin]

The 7 mag will continue to be one of the most popular western cartridges because it works reliably. Other smaller cartridges may work reliably with the correct bullet, but none of the 7 mag shooters I know have ever felt the need to dissect and photograph bullet performance to prove it works. It just works.

I almost bought into the 6.5 PRC as a replacement for my 7 mag, but with the bullets and range I like to hunt at, the PRC is very very close to the 270 - both shoot a 140 gr bullet at about the same velocity. I upgraded from the 270 back in the 1980’s because my mentor’s 7 mag spanked the 270 when shot side by side, taking animals side by side. In that respect, I don’t see the similar PRC as a bad cartridge, it’s just not a great one, like a 160gr in the 7 mag.

A lot of guys will want to say, “Yeah, but. . . ,” and try to make excuses for, or justify the 6.5 - nobody feels they have to do that with the 7 mag.

Even older than the 7 mag is the 264 win mag, and shot side by side, seeing the performance on game side by side, most guys like the extra bullet weight of the 7 mag and the 264 never gained a lot of fanfare.

 

[Samson7x]

This is rokslide, we kill everything with 223 and 6mm around here, don't ya know?


Kidding aside, killed 2 bulls with 6.5prc and one dropped, the other went 20yds. It is more than capable.

Edit- The bull that dropped was shot with 143 eldx @2900, the other shot with 140vld @3000fps

 

[Sevens]

Most guides are not rifle nuts and their rifle knowledge leans towards the “fudd” territory. Within that mindset, the words behind the number are what make the cartridge lethal or rubber bullets.

Your logic is correct. As long as the bullet arrives at target within the required velocity to perform, doesn’t matter if it was from a Creedmoor or a Winchester Super Magnum. Bullets over headstamps.

 

[jimh406]

If the 30'06 did well for you, I don't understand why you are trying to go smaller. Did you simply read too many threads that are suggesting .223 and similar?

I think people suggesting 30 caliber or above are basing it on their experience. You can disagree with their experience, but that doesn't mean it's invalid.

 

[hereinaz]

It’s absurd that type of lore persists. 6.5 PRC is a great balance between recoil and ballistics. I have an experienced hunting partner who can’t believe anything less than a .300 win mag is capable for elk. Funny thing is that we have killed elk every year with a 280 AI and past his idea of “max range” of 500 yards.

We have so much information that modern bullets, ballistic calculators and modern rifles disprove all the wrong ideas.

A Rokslide mantra is bullet placement and bullet design matters more than caliber size or energy. That’s why we see so much of the .223 and 6 mm.

I reached the conclusion on my own years ago when my 7 mag destroyed a Coues deer at 730 yards… I dropped to a .25 cal mag, to keep the extended hunting range. It’s my new elk gun. A 6.5 PRC is bigger than that.

I use a 6mm or 22 cal for hunting anything inside 500, which is inside most people’s comfort zone. I practice a lot and only shoot/hunt beyond 500 in near perfect conditions.

 

[Avonac]

Four of us went on an Elk hunt a couple years ago. Together we had a 300 WSM, 300 RUM, 7 REM and a 6.5 PRC. We killed 4 bulls and I didn’t see any difference. The PRC may have actually killed the fastest.
We are all victims of experience, some people just don’t have a lot of it.

 

[Liftman101]

Off a bench, I am not recoil sensitive. Off of sticks, on a tripod, or even in any odd position in a blind, I do not enjoy shooting the 30-06 or a bigger gun. The gun flys off the sticks or bounces around. I like shooting a 6 Creedmoor the best and having drunk the Rokslide Koolaid, I am moving toward custom barreled Tikkas with shorter barrels and suppressors. The smaller guns with a suppressor make range day much more fun as well. I want to hunt with the guns I shoot the most. I have high hopes for the 6UM.

 

[pacoalcracker]

well, it's really simple.
girls in grade school like boys thin and lightweight
girls in high school like guys with some size and weight
girls in college like guys with some size, weight, and athletics
girls post-college like guys with size, weight, athletics and power
there you have it...like I said, simple. now can we move on from the .223 BS?

 

[Schmo]

6.5 PRC is completely adequate for elk. Your guide is showing his ignorance of ballistics and bullet choice.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Four of us went on an Elk hunt a couple years ago. Together we had a 300 WSM, 300 RUM, 7 REM and a 6.5 PRC. We killed 4 bulls and I didn’t see any difference. The PRC may have actually killed the fastest.
We are all victims of experience, some people just don’t have a lot of it.

Bingo. shoot what’s comfortable to you. And…be well practiced with your selected cartridge.

Next time you hire an outfitter/guide, I’d say you have a new interview question for them. If I hired someone and they said I couldn’t hunt with a 6.5 PRC, I’d tell them to pound sand.

 

[Tmac]

Anyone that thinks a 6.5 PRC is not adequate for elk with the loads you mentioned is either showing their ignorance, bias or stupidity. As mentioned, it’s close to a 270 Win with 140’s, which is perfectly adequate for elk.

Last elk camp I was in we had 4 bull tags. Two 270 Win’s, a 338 Uber mag (an edge I think), and a 300 Win Mag. 5 shots fired, two dead elk (both one shot kills) two wounded elk not recovered. Dead elk both shot with a 270, a 6 point and a spike. by my son and I. Both wounded elk shot by the Mag’s. Wounding likely due more to shooting past their capabilities than the cartridge, but suffice to say I won’t hunt with either guy again.

For almost 30 years I’ve taken quite a few new youth hunters after antlerless elk, usually with a 243, 25-06, or 260. Tomorrow we leave for another youth cow hunt with a 6mm ARC. Nearly all have been one shot kills. I know a long time outfitter in OR, he recommends his new elk hunters shoot a moderate standard cartridge. He prefers a 100 grain .243 for his cow hunts for new hunters, he says they hit them right and the elk tips over after a few steps. I think he’s right.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I'm kinda thinkin there are alot of elk out there that wished the 6.5 prc had never been designed.
Or eldm's.......


Randy

 

[nobody]

Sounds to me like you should’ve hired a different outfitter. There’s no animal that would walk away from a well placed shot from a 6.5 PRC or even a Creedmoor with a properly constructed bullet inside 1k, assuming minimum expansion velocity is met. Never ceases to amaze me how few people actually understand terminal ballistics, even on a basic level.

Ignore foot-pounds of energy, check your ballistic calculator for where each projectile crosses below 1800 FPS for the ELDX/ELDM/Berger, or 2200 FPS for the Accubond/TTSX. Energy is irrelevant, those velocities are the minimums for where each of those projectiles will reliably expand and perform. You’ll see the terminal range of your 6.5 PRC is greatly increased over your -06, all with less recoil.