Is 6.5 Creed phasing out? Is 6.5 PRC phasing in?

[Rob5589]

I am helping a friend buy a new rifle. I shoot and kill elk with both a 6.5 Swede and .308. Both at 400 yds. or less.
My friend is choosing between the 6.5 creed and 300 Win Mag.
Aside from the debate over efficacy of the round, I am hearing whispers that the PRC outperforms the creed and may eclipse the popularity of the round.
I am curious if anyone with their eye on the industry sees a tide of change or if the PRC is just another branch on the tree of precision shooting?

30-06, as boring as it may sound.

 

[Che]

30-06, as boring as it may sound

I appreciate all 30 caliber rounds but this was not meant to be a debate between 30 caliber and 6.5.

 

[nhyrum]

30-06, as boring as it may sound.

I wasn't aware that 30-06 was either 6.5 creedmoor or 300 win mag.

The man asked about those two, period.

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[mvrk28]

If limited to the two options and planning on elk hunting with the rifle then IMO the 300 mag is the easily clear cut winner. The ability to push a heavier projectile faster than the 6.5 cm can push projectiles weighing 50-70 grains less ensures you will give the animal the death it deserves if you do your job.

However if I was buying a rifle in a readily available chambering I would probably look at the 7mm Rem Mag for the BC.

 

[Che]

If limited to the two options and planning on elk hunting with the rifle then IMO the 300 mag is the easily clear cut winner. The ability to push a heavier projectile faster than the 6.5 cm can push projectiles weighing 50-70 grains less ensures you will give the animal the death it deserves if you do your job.

However if I was buying a rifle in a readily available chambering I would probably look at the 7mm Rem Mag for the BC.

Those are viable options, but not the question. The question is about the forecasted popularity of the 6.5's.

Thanks for the recommendations.

If you read my replies above, I feel strongly there is not a "right" answer in the bullet size debate.

 

[MThuntr]

As of right now I don't see the 6.5 Creedmoor being phased out by the PRC. I also don't see the PRC gaining a ton of traction though that could change once the reloading/shooting world normalizes again. I haven't loaded my 6.5 creedmoor with RL26 or other "magic unicorn dust" but I keep hearing that you can squeak a lot of life out it with the right bullet. I've been shooting H4350 and recently tried a ladder test with Staball6.5 and the 140 Nosler RDF was able to get another 150fps out of it. I still have more testing to see if I like it.

I think this situation was compared briefly in a previous post...the 308 didn't disappear when the 300WSM came along and I'll echo that is similar to the 6.5creed vs PRC. I wonder if I'm actually seeing the 308 maintain it's place while the 300WSM is losing ground to other 30 cals (like the 300PRC) and I wonder if the we'll see that with the 6.5s.

I don't have a dog in the discussion about the 6.5 hunting rounds as my rifle is strictly a target rifle and I have zero experience with it in a hunting situation.

 

[Che]

As of right now I don't see the 6.5 Creedmoor being phased out by the PRC. I also don't see the PRC gaining a ton of traction though that could change once the reloading/shooting world normalizes again. I haven't loaded my 6.5 creedmoor with RL26 or other "magic unicorn dust" but I keep hearing that you can squeak a lot of life out it with the right bullet. I've been shooting H4350 and recently tried a ladder test with Staball6.5 and the 140 Nosler RDF was able to get another 150fps out of it. I still have more testing to see if I like it.

I think this situation was compared briefly in a previous post...the 308 didn't disappear when the 300WSM came along and I'll echo that is similar to the 6.5creed vs PRC. I wonder if I'm actually seeing the 308 maintain it's place while the 300WSM is losing ground to other 30 cals (like the 300PRC) and I wonder if the we'll see that with the 6.5s.

I don't have a dog in the discussion about the 6.5 hunting rounds as my rifle is strictly a target rifle and I have zero experience with it in a hunting situation.

Awesome info. I get fantastic result with rl22 in my swede, at the range. It's not temperature insensitive so I played around with H4350 but was loading it too hot, so I'm back to working up a new load with that powder.

I suspect the .308 maintains popularity due to its use in the armed forces.

I also think the WSM is another great round that is decreasing in popularity.

 

[ID_Matt]

Fair warning I skimmed through the replies so I'm not sure if this was already said.

With the current offerings I cannot wrap my head around 6.5 PRC.

You are hamstrung as far as factory ammo goes to Hornady, Federal and I think Nosler has something coming(not a bad option but you're going to pay handsomely).

As of right now for brass I think there is Hornady, ADG (good luck getting your hands on some), Nosler and I think I heard Norma has some coming too (probably where Nosler's is coming from).

So out of those options for brass you're hoping you can act swift enough to actually get some ADG, if not try to chase down Nosler/Norma otherwise you are stuck with Hornady or Federal. I don't know if I am alone in my opinion here but IMO Hornady and Federal are such poor options for brass that I will not use them. I've never seen cases lose primer pockets as fast as Federal brass, absolute junk.

And then if you actually analyze the velocity differences, you're not gaining very much by going to a PRC. I believe the difference in speed of factory Hornady Precision hunter is under 300 fps, closer to 250. Couple that with the loss in barrel life, Dave Emary himself estimates PRC barrel life to be in the 1400-1500 rd range. The Creed is widely considered to be a 2000-3000 rd barrel. I don't know if I want to sacrifice almost 50% barrel life to gain a couple hundred FPS.

You can open this argument up even more if you start comparing 6.5 creeds loaded with RL26, there are guys breaking 3000 FPS with 147 ELDs. I don't think the PRC is really pushing anything much faster than that and it's still taking more powder to do it.

This is all just my opinion but based on the multitude of factors, I think 6.5 Creed will outlive PRC.

PRC has a plethora of options if you ask me. Hornady, Federal, and Nosler all make ammo. What else are you hoping for? Winchester?? Lots of small guys loading it too for sale... Unknowm Munitions, choice ammunition, Gunwerks, etc.

Gunwerks also makes fantastic brass for it... add that to the list.

If 300 FPS didn't mean much to anyone we would all still be shooting grandpa's 308 win or 30-06. 300 FPS is rather significant in terms of downrange energy.

Also, I have seen where guys are pushing the crap out of 6.5 creeds with slower RL-26 and super long barrels - 26" to get in the 2900 FPS area. That is pushing it HARD and definitely not common at all. Mild load in a 6.5 PRC will easily push a 147 well over 2900 in a 20-22" barrel. My buddies 22" will push 156 gr handloads at 2900.

I think as long as Hornady keeps churning out ammo and pushing the caliber, it is here to stay. I am a big fan of the cartridge.

had to edit my post to answer the OP questions I guess.... I don't see either caliber going away for quite some time. Both of them have their place and people will continue to buy both.

 

[Rob5589]

Those are viable options, but not the question. The question is about the forecasted popularity of the 6.5's.

Thanks for the recommendations.

If you read my replies above, I feel strongly there is not a "right" answer in the bullet size debate.

With the number of rifles currently being chambered in 6.5 CM, and with numerous factory loaded ammo choices, it appears to have a very solid footing and likely to be around for a long time.

 

[mvrk28]

PRC has a plethora of options if you ask me. Hornady, Federal, and Nosler all make ammo. What else are you hoping for? Winchester?? Lots of small guys loading it too for sale... Unknowm Munitions, choice ammunition, Gunwerks, etc.

Gunwerks also makes fantastic brass for it... add that to the list.

If 300 FPS didn't mean much to anyone we would all still be shooting grandpa's 308 win or 30-06. 300 FPS is rather significant in terms of downrange energy.

Also, I have seen where guys are pushing the crap out of 6.5 creeds with slower RL-26 and super long barrels - 26" to get in the 2900 FPS area. That is pushing it HARD and definitely not common at all. Mild load in a 6.5 PRC will easily push a 147 well over 2900 in a 20-22" barrel. My buddies 22" will push 156 gr handloads at 2900.

I think as long as Hornady keeps churning out ammo and pushing the caliber, it is here to stay. I am a big fan of the cartridge.

had to edit my post to answer the OP questions I guess.... I don't see either caliber going away for quite some time. Both of them have their place and people will continue to buy both.

Gunwerks brass is made by ADG. So again, wish upon a star, tap your heels together and maybe you'll get your hands on some.

On the ammo front, I'd like better options than Hornady and Federal. Would love to see Sierra bring their gamechanger line to market. Unknown Munitions is great but you're not going to be able to grab a box of it in a flash like you can with other brands that are already in the big box stores. I haven't actually seen Nosler available yet, just that it's coming soon so it's not really an option.

On the RL26 subject, guys are going between 3000-3100 out of 24's with RL26.

 

[MattB]

From experience, .30 and 6.5 all work great with tradeoffs on both sides. The main concern I have is advising a friend to purchase a lifetime rifle only to see ammunition get rare and costly. I hear the 7mm-08 is fading and it is a great round.

The 6.5 PRC is much more likely to fade than the 6.5 CM.

What has the .300WSM done to the .308?

 

[EastMT]

PRC has a plethora of options if you ask me. Hornady, Federal, and Nosler all make ammo. What else are you hoping for? Winchester?? Lots of small guys loading it too for sale... Unknowm Munitions, choice ammunition, Gunwerks, etc.

Gunwerks also makes fantastic brass for it... add that to the list.

If 300 FPS didn't mean much to anyone we would all still be shooting grandpa's 308 win or 30-06. 300 FPS is rather significant in terms of downrange energy.

Also, I have seen where guys are pushing the crap out of 6.5 creeds with slower RL-26 and super long barrels - 26" to get in the 2900 FPS area. That is pushing it HARD and definitely not common at all. Mild load in a 6.5 PRC will easily push a 147 well over 2900 in a 20-22" barrel. My buddies 22" will push 156 gr handloads at 2900.

I think as long as Hornady keeps churning out ammo and pushing the caliber, it is here to stay. I am a big fan of the cartridge.

had to edit my post to answer the OP questions I guess.... I don't see either caliber going away for quite some time. Both of them have their place and people will continue to buy both.

Well I still do hunt with the 308, took everything in AK with it but polar bear and musk ox. But that’s a different story.

The 260 is already phased out, I love mine, will keep it. Load my CM with same bullet, it’s about 80 FPS faster with 140’s, haven’t tried heavier because partitions don’t come heavier.

I know a lot of guys getting 2900 out of 6.5’s with RL26, some topping 3000.

The funny thing is there was a 6.5 shooting 140’s at 3000 FPS in 1913, the 256 Newton. 100 years later we reinvented the wheel and strut around like we discovered the light bulb.


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[tdhanses]

PRC has a plethora of options if you ask me. Hornady, Federal, and Nosler all make ammo. What else are you hoping for? Winchester?? Lots of small guys loading it too for sale... Unknowm Munitions, choice ammunition, Gunwerks, etc.

Gunwerks also makes fantastic brass for it... add that to the list.

If 300 FPS didn't mean much to anyone we would all still be shooting grandpa's 308 win or 30-06. 300 FPS is rather significant in terms of downrange energy.

Also, I have seen where guys are pushing the crap out of 6.5 creeds with slower RL-26 and super long barrels - 26" to get in the 2900 FPS area. That is pushing it HARD and definitely not common at all. Mild load in a 6.5 PRC will easily push a 147 well over 2900 in a 20-22" barrel. My buddies 22" will push 156 gr handloads at 2900.

I think as long as Hornady keeps churning out ammo and pushing the caliber, it is here to stay. I am a big fan of the cartridge.

had to edit my post to answer the OP questions I guess.... I don't see either caliber going away for quite some time. Both of them have their place and people will continue to buy both.

My 20” 6.5cm is pushing 156’s just over 2700. Past that I’ll just take my 300wsm pushing 215’s at 2960. So to me a 6.5 prc really doesn’t get me excited.

 

[ID_Matt]

Gunwerks brass is made by ADG. So again, wish upon a star, tap your heels together and maybe you'll get your hands on some.

On the ammo front, I'd like better options than Hornady and Federal. Would love to see Sierra bring their gamechanger line to market. Unknown Munitions is great but you're not going to be able to grab a box of it in a flash like you can with other brands that are already in the big box stores. I haven't actually seen Nosler available yet, just that it's coming soon so it's not really an option.

On the RL26 subject, guys are going between 3000-3100 out of 24's with RL26.

Before the huge shortage on all components it didn't seem like PRC brass was too hard to find. Myself and a few other buddies all built PRC's within a months time and had no problems getting ADG or Gunwerks brass.

As far as buying ammo in a flash, it does not seem like that is happening anywhere currently. Regardless, it seems like guys are buying PRC and Creed ammo as soon as it hits the shelves and as far as I know ammo companies are still making the ammo as fast as they can. Demand is just huge for it right now.

I guess I have seen on forums where guys are pouring the pixie dust in the creed and getting pretty impressive velocities. I have a hard time believing that is normal and not just a super fast barrel with a load that is at the top end of pressure.

 

[ID_Matt]

Well I still do hunt with the 308, took everything in AK with it but polar bear and musk ox. But that’s a different story.

The 260 is already phased out, I love mine, will keep it. Load my CM with same bullet, it’s about 80 FPS faster with 140’s, haven’t tried heavier because partitions don’t come heavier.

I know a lot of guys getting 2900 out of 6.5’s with RL26, some topping 3000.

The funny thing is there was a 6.5 shooting 140’s at 3000 FPS in 1913, the 256 Newton. 100 years later we reinvented the wheel and strut around like we discovered the light bulb.


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Didn't mean to make it sound like the 308 and 30-06 don't work great.. more meant that human nature is to want bigger, better, faster and that is why so many options are out today.

 

[EastMT]

Didn't mean to make it sound like the 308 and 30-06 don't work great.. more meant that human nature is to want bigger, better, faster and that is why so many options are out today.

Well the honest truth is if they don’t keep inventing the newest latest greatest they will all go out of business. It’s good for all of us, even if you don’t like certain ones. I have some magnums, but the little rounds are some much more enjoyable.


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[Fartrell Cluggins]

I can always load my PRC down to Creed velocities...

 

[hodgeman]

Here's a chart showing the cartridge, the number of factory loads from major manufacturers, and the year of introduction. That cartridge has likely attained the most popularity in the least amount of time than any other cartridge in existence. While the number of available loads isn't the same as numbers sold, it's indicative of market demand.

It's not going anywhere in most of our lifetimes.

 

[WCB]

Gunwerks brass is made by ADG. So again, wish upon a star, tap your heels together and maybe you'll get your hands on some.

On the ammo front, I'd like better options than Hornady and Federal. Would love to see Sierra bring their gamechanger line to market. Unknown Munitions is great but you're not going to be able to grab a box of it in a flash like you can with other brands that are already in the big box stores. I haven't actually seen Nosler available yet, just that it's coming soon so it's not really an option.

On the RL26 subject, guys are going between 3000-3100 out of 24's with RL26.

You do know that a lot of Sierra's ammo is loaded by the other major manufacturers and just branded Sierra.

Now if you are just talking bullet options I agree the PRC lacks bullet options but that is changing rapidly.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

No.