Is 3 fletch v. 4 fletch a poor man’s/poor form way of tuning?

[FCMD]

I’m new to archery and have attempted bare shaft tuning. I work every day on my form and am improving. I’ve paper tuned, bare shaft tuned, walked back tuned French tuned and am beyond frustrated. I know I’m not good enough to bareshaft tune- rest is waaaay too off center to be correct.

Anyway today I French tuned (again) and at 3y and 50y got it dead on the string. I was using 4 fletched arrows.

Then I shot exact same 3 fletched arrows which, as anticipated shot 2” higher but also shot 4-6” left at 50. Can that be interpreted as a poor man’s (poor form) bareshaft tune and indeed my arrows are pointing left because of less steering input?

The bottom line is I want to improve my form with a properly set up bow and not one already set up for compensation. I’m just not good enough to tune it.

Mathews V3 31”, 68# (actual), 28” draw, VAP TKO 300 spine 28” 490gr build.


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[D.Rose]

Is your running way out to the left to get it to paper tune? Probably just need to flip your tophats around and shim your cam over. One extra vane aint gonna make up for bad form or a bad tune. If it aint shootin good with 3 fletch then dont expect much different with 4. It will help some but not enough.

 

[SharpEnd]

You have top-shelf equipment, get the bow set up / tuned properly first, then proceed with tuning the arrows. Did you buy new from a dealer?

 

[FCMD]

Thanks to all.

Yes, but replaced the strings & rest myself. I had to quit golfing due to injury, so put all my efforts into archery -used to build my own clubs spine my shafts, etc (had a better pro shop at home than my local country club) which now makes me a dangerous tinkerer. No shop near me- closest is an hour away.

FWIW I practice a lot with a back tension release, which shoots typically 2" right of either an index or thumb release- just wondering if I tuned in my torque or lack of pull through with the 4 fletch and the less draggy 3 fletch go left exposing my flaw similar to a bare shaft.

So what arrows should I build? The 3 vanes are AAE Max Hunter and the 4 vane are AAE Max Stealth.

Practice makes permanent, not perfect. Why I asked.

 

[doncarpenter]

I’m new to archery and have attempted bare shaft tuning. I work every day on my form and am improving. I’ve paper tuned, bare shaft tuned, walked back tuned French tuned and am beyond frustrated. I know I’m not good enough to bareshaft tune- rest is waaaay too off center to be correct.

Anyway today I French tuned (again) and at 3y and 50y got it dead on the string. I was using 4 fletched arrows.

Then I shot exact same 3 fletched arrows which, as anticipated shot 2” higher but also shot 4-6” left at 50. Can that be interpreted as a poor man’s (poor form) bareshaft tune and indeed my arrows are pointing left because of less steering input?

The bottom line is I want to improve my form with a properly set up bow and not one already set up for compensation. I’m just not good enough to tune it.

Mathews V3 31”, 68# (actual), 28” draw, VAP TKO 300 spine 28” 490gr build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Couple questions.

1. Are you certain fletching contact isn't an issue with the 3 fletch?

2. When you're "french tuning" are you only moving the rest? Have you swapped the tophats or used a tophat kit?

You can only tune as far as your skill level will take you. I have done all the tuning methods that you're utilizing and the best method that I have come up with is initial paper tune, then broadhead tune. Shooting BH is the end goal so it makes no difference to me whether I can shoot a shaft without vanes or not, it also changes the dynamic spine when you don't have weight on the back of the shaft, unless you use tape or something else to replicate the fletching weight.

If I were you, (and I have been in your position many times), I would set everything back to center and start over. Get it to where you can consistently hit what you're aiming at and practice. Practice is more important than a perfectly tuned bow at this point.

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[SharpEnd]

If your rest is way out from center, that needs to be addressed before anything with arrows. As suggested, you may need a tophat kit to shim the cams.

 

[FCMD]

I used to be a scratch golfer so have switched obsessions, thus I continuously violate 2 rules I try live by:
1. The opposite of good is perfect.
2. It's why we play the game (doesn't matter what's on paper...)

The main reason I went to the 4 fletch was to ensure clearance- whether real or imagined.

I've tried the eyeball & parallel arrows method, measuring 13/16, measuring arrow from front & rear of riser, bare shafted at 6' to get center shot. This last time I used my T square against the outside riser and mark where the string hits it, flipped it around and used that mark on the arrow to set up the rest.

I haven't switched top hats yet. As in building golf clubs one can build for compensation: make up for a bad swing/flaws or build for correction: make up for body habitus-height arm length, etc.

Again if it is indeed me I don't want to set up for compensation.

OK. I'm going to go out and redo it with my back tension and index releases and see what happens.

 

[SharpEnd]

I'm out.

 

[D.Rose]

No two swings are the same in golf the same as no two peoples shot are the same in archery. There are just general rules of thumb we try to go by. As long as your form is somewhat decent you will be better off to tune the bow to yourself as tune yourself to the bow.

 

[4rcgoat]

Could be a draw length issue?

 

[Billy Goat]

The bow needs to be tuned to your form, it's not uncommon for different releases to change things a little.

You can perfectly tune a bow out of a shooting machine, but that won't make it work for you.

Shoot for a bit, get used to the bow. Then start tuning.

To answer your question, to some extent extra drag on the back of the shaft will improve an otherwise out of tune bow.

 

[Planopurist]

2 rules I try live by:
1. The opposite of good is perfect.
2. It's why we play the game (doesn't matter what's on paper...)

The main reason I went to the 4 fletch was to ensure clearance- whether real or imagined.

I haven't switched top hats yet.

Again if it is indeed me I don't want to set up for compensation.

OK. I'm going to go out and redo it with my back tension and index releases and see what happens.

There’s a lot packed in here.

1. I love your life rules.

2. 4vs3 fletch for clearance is viable if you’re going lower profile. Sounds like you’re seeking forgiveness, fundamental to life. Adding vane, adds drag, adds steering for broadhead planing.

3. Tune the bow to the arrow. To me, getting a 6’ center shot paper tune is basically a gross adjustment. I wouldn’t expect to have to shim the cams if you got a bullet hole and flight alignment (windage) down range.

4. If you’re chasing perfection, it’s always you.

5. I think switch releases will only change point of impact, not tune. Pick one release style that gives you consistency, and go.


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[Mighty Mouse]

I'd suspect that you're getting vane contact with the 3-fletch configuration. Even with an out-of-tune bow, I wouldn't expect 3-fletch vs. 4-fletch to cause as large a POI difference as you're seeing unless there's a vane clearance issue. AAE Max Hunters are pretty tall and could be hitting your cables or the containment bar above your rest (if it has one). If your 3-fletch arrows are oriented with the "cock" vane up (i.e., vanes at 12-4-8 o'clock positions), you could try twisting the nock 90° to put the cock vane horizontal pointing away from the cables (i.e., vanes at 1-5-9 o'clock positions for a right-handed bow). That adjustment would buy you a little bit of extra clearance relative to the cables and rest containment bar.

Whether or not you're having vane clearance issues, I'd recommend restarting your tuning process with the rest at the recommended centershot position and shimming your cams to get the best left-right tune possible.

 

[5MilesBack]

It's not a "one thing or the other" kind of thing. Tune your bow, and ALSO make sure you have enough fletching on your arrows to stabilize fixed blade BH's. But it sounds like you need to figure out how to get consistent form and tune to that.

I have arrows that have three 2" QS vanes on them and I have the same types of arrows with four 2.1" Q2i Fusion Xii vanes on them. They'll both stack in the same groupings, and BH's will impact the same with either.

 

[SDHNTR]

You are chasing your tail! Stop.

Set everything back to factory specs. ATA, brace, tiller, center shot, and cam timing.

then pick one tuning method at a time. The vanes are the least of your issues.

 

[Zac]

Your biggest issue is that you are trying to tune with your rest. You need a bow press and a set of tophats in order to tune correctly. This may not be a viable option for you. However if you are sure that this is your passion, and you are into tuning there really isn't another option. In the meantime I would find a reputable shop. Ask them to set your bow back to factory specs, then paper tune the bow with their assistance. You need to be the one shooting. They can correct you on any obvious form issues while you are working through the process. This will give you a rough starting point. Then if you like you can continue with things like bare shaft tuning when you return home.

 

[FCMD]

Thanks to all. That is what I’ll do. FWIW I shot more consistent by moving wrist strap over and loosened it up- maybe getting some torque. Regardless gonna make a trip to the big city next week. Thanks again.

Could be worse- next project is working up a load to regulate my double.......


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[Zac]

Thanks to all. That is what I’ll do. FWIW I shot more consistent by moving wrist strap over and loosened it up- maybe getting some torque. Regardless gonna make a trip to the big city next week. Thanks again.

Could be worse- next project is working up a load to regulate my double.......


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If your just beginning you need to lock up all your releases except for one. If you have a tension activated, or a hinge I would use that to train. I would not use the strap until you plan to hunt. You need to work on reducing variables at this point. You also need to work through Dudley's School of Nock.

 

[JayTx]

Like others have said. Get to a shop and reset the bow. Also Zac is spot on use one release right now.
When I started some of my own tuning and tinkering I did the same thing you are doing. What I do now is let the bow shop check the bow set up once a year and paper tune at the shop. Granted my shop is pretty good setting up these bowtechs. With a new rest set up I'll nock tune some arrows with field points and get them grouping together then walk back tune to finalize rest if needed. After that I may shoot a few bare shafts just for grins. I nock tune every arrow with the broad heads I'm using. Field tips can fly great and fixed blade broadheads be off because the arrows aren't tuned and/or not enough steering in the back at least with me and this bow. All this assumes your arrow spines good.

 

[1woolie89]

Just did a paper tune my self, got the bullet hole at 3 then 8 yards bare shaft. I’m swapping from 4 fletch with a wrap to 3 with no wrap. Keeping it simple.