Interstate Fishtailing at 65 MPH in Snow

[49ereric]

I guess a person can go as fast as they want on the ice in AWD or 4WD but you can’t stop.

With an automatic transmission just remember to slide it into neutral before braking. always surprised how many people don’t know how to stop faster in icy roads.
I just push in the clutch.

 

[SonnyDay]

Black ice can form on the road surface at up to around 38 degrees F air temperature. If you’re at all unsure, stick it in 4x4.

I don’t think the OP fits this description but I have heard guys talk about treating 4WD like tire chains: “it’s just there to get out if I get stuck” which is of course asinine.

I have had fishtailing from the automatic transmission downshifting on me… which obviously cranks the torque.

Glad you pulled it out!

 

[Poser]

With an automatic transmission just remember to slide it into neutral before braking. always surprised how many people don’t know how to stop faster in icy roads.
I just push in the clutch.

I’ve read is that shifting into neutral will have zero effect on your stopping power in a modern vehicle with ABS etc, though the concept makes sense to me since there is torque being applied to the wheels anytime you are in gear. I think neutral may be an advantage if you have good stretch to allow the the vehicle to slow down before braking, but if you must apply brakes sooner or harder than you’d like, you may be better of prepared to drive out of slide or spin by being in gear with 2 hands on the wheel. Based on that, I can’t see this being more than highly situational advice.

 

[ljalberta]

Proper winter tires help. Cruise control can cause an issue on ice pretty quick too. But even with great studded winter tires, and moderate speeds, sometimes you hit a patch of black ice that isn’t seen and is slick as heck. It’s just one of the joys of winter driving in my experience.

 

[NorthIDHunter]

Sounds like just too fast with some snow/ice on the road. I know people sh$t on Subarus all the time, but I'll tell you that those and other SUVs handle waaay better than my pickup on snowy roads. Even with sandbags in the bed.

Glad everybody is safe!

I have found that is true with our vehicles as well. I have a 2000 Silverado with sandbags and when just in 2wd it wants to walk a bit, especially under power. My wife has a 2011 Toyota Sienna and I have to try hard as hell to even get it to slip a little bit on icy roads.

Of course in this case iced roads are iced roads, yes snow tires studded or not, will help a bit, but speed is always the killer in these situations, im sure someone much smarter could explain all the principles of physics could explain why. Mass, intertia, friction, things like that

 

[Laramie]

If there is ice and snow on the road, never drive faster than the speed you are comfortable entering the ditch. 60+ on ice/snow is too fast, period. AWD and 4WD help a bunch but in the end going proper speeds for the conditions is the solution.

 

[wapitibob]

Trucks are worthless in icy conditions, there is no weight on the back end. My old F350 and now my F150 live in 4wd when there's snow on the roads.

 

[NorthIDHunter]

With an automatic transmission just remember to slide it into neutral before braking. always surprised how many people don’t know how to stop faster in icy roads.
I just push in the clutch.

I have grown up and lived my entire life in Idaho. Now not nearly as bad of winters as other states, but I have never heard of this. In all the scenarios where I was needing to correct a slide I am not sure I would have the ability to safely put my truck in N without over shooting it to R or P, lol. A few weeks back I was about the win the "asshole who forgot how to drive on slick roads" award and even without sliding sideways i'm not sure I could have done it then either.

 

[NorthIDHunter]

Was heading out hunting yesterday morning in the dark. Driving on the interstate, going 60 or 65mph. There was a dusting of snow on the highway, like hundreds of times before - the tire tracks were clear, with snow in the passing lane and between the wheel lines. I drove for 10 or 15 minutes without incident on the interstate, after coming off the perpetually icy side roads from my house to civilization. I'm driving on a straight section of road and out of nowhere, the back end of the truck starts coming around on me. I swear that I'm going to fly off the road. I counter-steered and corrected the fish tail. Then it whipped back in the other direction - I was able to correct that one too. Holy crap, that was close was going through my head for two seconds after I got everything back under control and then the back end started to come around on me again. I went through the same counter-steering cycle and got it back under control. The second time wasn't as severe because I was going slower (probably 50 - didn't even have time to consciously slow down after the first instance) - it was still plenty to freak you out. It happened a third time half a mile down the road and I was probably going 40mph - this time it just made me mad.

Never experienced anything like this before - just starting to fishtail out of the blue going straight on the highway. Really freaked me out. I drove for a good bit with the four-ways on at low speed after that thinking somebody was going to crash there.

After I had a few minutes to recover from the adrenaline dump, I looked and had the truck in RWD. I had it set to AWD (not 4wd) just minutes before, but turned it off because the road had cleared up in civilization. The thought to turn it back into AWD on the interstate did not cross my mind in my sleep deprived state.

Anybody have this happen to them?

What caused it? Just hitting black ice? Would having it in AWD have helped my situation?

Hopefully those of you who have had similar experiences fared as well as I did - I'm lucky to not be in the hospital or truck shopping.

The dirt road to my house is a sheet of ice for 3 miles. I'm very used to the back end slipping around on the truck on this road - hit some washboards or potholes and it's enough to kick it loose. The trucks electronic system recognizes it right away, applies the brakes and stops the slide immediately. It even happens on the dirt road when moving at a decent speed (~30mph) over washboards/bumps in turns. 2007 Chevy Silverado.

Thanks!

I have never had it happen on seemingly clear roads. I guess its possible where your wheels were tracking was not fully in the cleared patches, but obviously due to what happened it was clear but lots and lots of black ice. Glad you were ok, and glad you were smart enough to start slowing down slowly. Would have been a very scary situation. I had it happened a few times, but worst was on snowpacked roads going about 40 in 4wd and it was one of the scariest times of my life. Truck full of wife and kids, with drop off into icy water with no guard rails on either side

 

[ND_Hooligan]

Lots of experience driving the ice covered roads here in ND and I can say that most of the times when people fishtail it is because they aren't smart enough to not use their cruise control in the winter and/or think they can drive too fast for the conditions. Never have your foot on the gas pedal as your tires are on snow/ice at highway speeds as this is what causes a tire to slip, breaking traction, and sending you sideways. On another note, it makes me laugh at how many think that just because you are in 4x4 you can drive as fast as you want. Going is one thing but 4wd doesn't help you one bit for stopping.

 

[ljalberta]

Lots of experience driving the ice covered roads here in ND and I can say that most of the times when people fishtail it is because they aren't smart enough to not use their cruise control in the winter and/or think they can drive too fast for the conditions. Never have your foot on the gas pedal as your tires are on snow/ice at highway speeds as this is what causes a tire to slip, breaking traction, and sending you sideways. On another note, it makes me laugh at how many think that just because you are in 4x4 you can drive as fast as you want. Going is one thing but 4wd doesn't help you one bit for stopping.

Good point about the 4wd. We see our fair share of snow and ice covered roads. Also seen my fair share of vehicles in 4wd spinning around on the ice. 4wd is rarely the answer when it comes to avoiding what the OP described.

 

[Thinkingman]

Sounds like being in RWD was the issue, likely hit some ice. AWD would have likely avoided it.

I'm guessing you were on the gas, does not have to be a lot, especially if you don't have winter tires. I have had similar happen to me holding my speed going up a grade with high quality snow tires with studs. The answer is to come off the accelerator and put it in 4WD. If going straight, I do not attempt to steer out of it, physics will keep you going in the same direction and pull you back to straight if you remove the force causing the fishtail (power to the rear axle).

I don't know if AWD would have avoided it.
I'm not real familiar with a 2007 Chevy but most operate in RWD until slippage is detected then the clutches engage the front axle. By that time, you may already be sideways.
If side roads are ice, you already know conditions exist for what looks bare and wet, to freeze and not show any visual evidence....Black Ice.
I would go 4wd if conditions exist and I'm traveling straight or gentle curves.
You were also going too fast for conditions....Asking for 65mph torque means rear tire traction is being demanded.
Less power needed to go 45mph means less rear grip needed.
Hope this helps.
Glad you didn't put it in a ditch or someone else's front grill.

Slightly off topic, but related enough. I regularly drive Wolf Creek pass this time of year and usually when I go there, it is storming because that’s what makes it a destination. Coming down the pass in my old truck, I’d just slide it into 2nd gear and cruise down the pass, never braking. In my V8 4runner, I can’t manually shift below 3rd gear without being in 4 low, but ~40 minutes of driving in 4 low at ~35 mph (due to the grade) seems like it would be right at the high end of 4Low speed. You think 4low at that speed is too much risk for damaging the transmission?

In 4H, 3rd gear, I have to brake more than I would like to, which would seem to put me closer to the realm of the Texans I’m cussing at for continually riding their brake down a steep grade on plowed snow with 20 feet of visibility in a line of cars who are all too close together.

That's amazing.
Another reason I would never own a 4Runner.

 

[5MilesBack]

You always hear folks talking about some people thinking they can go as fast as they want to go because they're in 4wd, but every 4wd vehicle I've ever had had a recommended top end of about 50mph in 4wd. Wouldn't want to go much faster than that in 4wd.

And braking is the last thing I would want to do while sliding and fish-tailing. Foot off the go pedal and steer into the slide direction if you can't get it into 4wd quick enough.

 

[Jethro]

4wd is rarely the answer when it comes to avoiding what the OP described.

I agree, 4wd doesn't allow you to go as fast as you want. Braking, corners, turns at intersections all need to still be taken cautiously. But if your 4wd doesn't keep your ass end from coming around on a straight stretch of highway, get your 4wd checked.

 

[ljalberta]

I agree, 4wd doesn't allow you to go as fast as you want. Braking, corners, turns at intersections all need to still be taken cautiously. But if your 4wd doesn't keep your ass end from coming around on a straight stretch of highway, get your 4wd checked.

Lot of broken 4wds in Canada I guess. Lots of broken fwd vehicles as well that start sliding on straight patches. Or maybe it’s not always the answer to a slick patch of ice and roads, even on what looks like a fairly straight stretch.

 

[Fatcamp]

Lot of broken 4wds in Canada I guess. Lots of broken fwd vehicles as well that start sliding on straight patches. Or maybe it’s not always the answer to a slick patch of ice and roads, even on what looks like a fairly straight stretch.

4wd doesn't allow you to drive any speed you want. Discretion is required. The 4wd trucks I see in the ditch are usually the ones I see blaze past me, same for cars and suv's.

The idea that 4wd in a truck doesn't help on icy roads is puzzling to me.

 

[black dawg]

Agree, though just assuming the roads are slick and covered in ice and looking for proof of the opposite is a good starting point and much better than the other way around.

This says it perfectly. And this isnt saying drive super slow, but drive for constantly changing conditions. Have seen so many new folks this year on very slippery highways driving 65 plus, bumper to bumper, super aggressive and not surprisingly, an insane amount of crashes. Usually involving many cars

 

[Fatcamp]

This says it perfectly. And this isnt saying drive super slow, but drive for constantly changing conditions. Have seen so many new folks this year on very slippery highways driving 65 plus, bumper to bumper, super aggressive and not surprisingly, an insane amount of crashes. Usually involving many cars

Yup. This is our first real winter in a very long time. It's been a mess.

 

[KurtR]

Lots of experience driving the ice covered roads here in ND and I can say that most of the times when people fishtail it is because they aren't smart enough to not use their cruise control in the winter and/or think they can drive too fast for the conditions. Never have your foot on the gas pedal as your tires are on snow/ice at highway speeds as this is what causes a tire to slip, breaking traction, and sending you sideways. On another note, it makes me laugh at how many think that just because you are in 4x4 you can drive as fast as you want. Going is one thing but 4wd doesn't help you one bit for stopping.

I was in Minot on the wind tower project a few years ago and a company from texas was putting them up. Well we had some freezing rain and snow and the next morning they put three pickups on their lids where you turn in to the job site. Asked them what the hell your doing and one guys says well i had it in 4x4 but it just wouldnt stop. We just shook our heads and called the wrecker haha

 

[49ereric]

I’ve read is that shifting into neutral will have zero effect on your stopping power in a modern vehicle with ABS etc, though the concept makes sense to me since there is torque being applied to the wheels anytime you are in gear. I think neutral may be an advantage if you have good stretch to allow the the vehicle to slow down before braking, but if you must apply brakes sooner or harder than you’d like, you may be better of prepared to drive out of slide or spin by being in gear with 2 hands on the wheel. Based on that, I can’t see this being more than highly situational advice.

Torque converter still spinning and it overpowers traction when braking.
not sure on the newer vehicles with the different transmissions these days.
had a guy bump me last winter at a stop sign and I asked him if was an auto trany and he said yeah so I commented hit neutral before you brake and he laughed. Lot of people don know.