Interesting read on Wyoming Range mule deer

[Indian Summer]

What’s in store for the devastated Wyoming Range deer herd? | County 17

county17.com

 

[S.Clancy]

Read that this morning. One interesting takeaway, at least being a MT resident, is how WYGFD is lauded for their management yet the Red Desert/WY Range mule deer population objective is ~50% of the population in the 90s (60,000 vs 30,000 objective today). Then you look at MT R7, and FWP has been getting skewered for the last 20 years. It's just interesting the lines people draw.

Point being, there is widespread population issues across the West for mule deer. It will be interesting to see how those deer come back. It is one of the most beautiful areas in the west, I hope to hunt it one day.

 

[Indian Summer]

I’ll find out in a couple days whether I’m hunting it this year. If so it’s going to be a tough hunt just because I won’t have a bunch of other deer to watch and learn patterns from or to keep me entertained and on my toes while glassing day after day. Glassing all day at nothing is tough. I’ve been there.

 

[Indian Summer]

But it seems better than waiting for any comeback when you’re 58 years old and already paying the price in your knees from a lifetime of elk hunting and riding horses.

 

[Marche hunter]

Interesting

 

[madtinker]

I read that the other day. Really interesting stuff. The article didn’t mention anything, but I wonder if the winter kill will help the CWD situation.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I read that the other day. Really interesting stuff. The article didn’t mention anything, but I wonder if the winter kill will help the CWD situation.

There isn't much (almost zero) CWD in that herd, but I know the Baggs area was hit pretty hard this winter and was in that 8-16% range of CWD prevalence over the past few years. A good buddy of mine shot a waster there. They're in a new 3-year prevalence test, so be interesting to see what that does.

 

[Jaden Bales]

Read that this morning. One interesting takeaway, at least being a MT resident, is how WYGFD is lauded for their management yet the Red Desert/WY Range mule deer population objective is ~50% of the population in the 90s (60,000 vs 30,000 objective today). Then you look at MT R7, and FWP has been getting skewered for the last 20 years. It's just interesting the lines people draw.

Point being, there is widespread population issues across the West for mule deer. It will be interesting to see how those deer come back. It is one of the most beautiful areas in the west, I hope to hunt it one day.

Man, I've always been interested to know exactly what populations used to be versus now. Agencies have changed models a few times over the years, and Wyoming is moving to a new PopR model that revises their estimates lower in most places they implement it. Granted, it's safe to say most places have way less deer now than they used to. And we all want more deer. I'm not sure I put a whole lot of stock in population estimates, especially the further back in time we look.

 

[S.Clancy]

Man, I've always been interested to know exactly what populations used to be versus now. Agencies have changed models a few times over the years, and Wyoming is moving to a new PopR model that revises their estimates lower in most places they implement it. Granted, it's safe to say most places have way less deer now than they used to. And we all want more deer. I'm not sure I put a whole lot of stock in population estimates, especially the further back in time we look.

I just wonder how many more mule deer places like Utah in Cache Valley, or around Salt Lake use to have given the amount of winter range swallowed up by development.

Places like Eastern MT prob have the lowest impact from actual development, their impact is more likely to be climax vegetative communities from lack of disturbance. I've said it alot, much could be gained from a mass change in grazing techniques to be more disruptive in Eastern MT, think intensive grazing then letting it sit.

I think the biggest thing was the amount of disturbance on the landscape was unbelievably high in the mid-century to maybe the 70s. These activities really pushed the habitat in favor of mule deer and away from elk. We have the exact opposite happening now.

 

[mtnrunner260]

I just wonder how many more mule deer places like Utah in Cache Valley, or around Salt Lake use to have given the amount of winter range swallowed up by development.

Places like Eastern MT prob have the lowest impact from actual development, their impact is more likely to be climax vegetative communities from lack of disturbance. I've said it alot, much could be gained from a mass change in grazing techniques to be more disruptive in Eastern MT, think intensive grazing then letting it sit.

I think the biggest thing was the amount of disturbance on the landscape was unbelievably high in the mid-century to maybe the 70s. These activities really pushed the habitat in favor of mule deer and away from elk. We have the exact opposite happening now.

The first records of white explorers and mormon settlers have very few mentions of mule deer.
As you said intense grazing shifted the plant community to more browse species.
Who would have thought that the Taylor grazing act would be detrimental to deer in the long run.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I just wonder how many more mule deer places like Utah in Cache Valley, or around Salt Lake use to have given the amount of winter range swallowed up by development.

Places like Eastern MT prob have the lowest impact from actual development, their impact is more likely to be climax vegetative communities from lack of disturbance. I've said it alot, much could be gained from a mass change in grazing techniques to be more disruptive in Eastern MT, think intensive grazing then letting it sit.

I think the biggest thing was the amount of disturbance on the landscape was unbelievably high in the mid-century to maybe the 70s. These activities really pushed the habitat in favor of mule deer and away from elk. We have the exact opposite happening now.

Well said sir. Well said.

 

[Baddog]

I just wonder how many more mule deer places like Utah in Cache Valley, or around Salt Lake use to have given the amount of winter range swallowed up by development.

Places like Eastern MT prob have the lowest impact from actual development, their impact is more likely to be climax vegetative communities from lack of disturbance. I've said it alot, much could be gained from a mass change in grazing techniques to be more disruptive in Eastern MT, think intensive grazing then letting it sit.

I think the biggest thing was the amount of disturbance on the landscape was unbelievably high in the mid-century to maybe the 70s. These activities really pushed the habitat in favor of mule deer and away from elk. We have the exact opposite happening now.

Clear cutting wasn’t all bad for the deer and elk.

 

[S.Clancy]

Clear cutting wasn’t all bad for the deer and elk.

I would say it wasn't bad for elk or deer (especially deer). It was bad for aquatics. It's all about finding and using methods appropriate for different areas.

 

[Muledeerfanatic]

I actually saw a deer down by La Barge in February that was more than likely suffering from CWD
And one about 6 years ago as well in August scouting

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

Man, I've always been interested to know exactly what populations used to be versus now. Agencies have changed models a few times over the years, and Wyoming is moving to a new PopR model that revises their estimates lower in most places they implement it. Granted, it's safe to say most places have way less deer now than they used to. And we all want more deer. I'm not sure I put a whole lot of stock in population estimates, especially the further back in time we look.

Just for everyone's information... I once asked Gary Fralick (Biologist in the Alpine area) about where the 60,000 number came from. I was curious in how it was measured and how accurate it was. As long as I understood him correctly, He told me that it was based on a social construct of what hunters wanted to see on the landscape at that time and NOT based on actual population surveys or statistics/models as they are nowadays. Ever since then I have taken the OLDER numbers of population estimates with a grain of salt because they most likely are skewed. Unfortunately, I don't think that anyone knows exactly how many mule deer were on the landscape at that time with any certainty. If anyone does have concrete data I would be excited to look over it.

 

[Indian Summer]

Gary Fralick is a wealth of information and he will take the time to talk to you and answer any questions. Great guy. We stay in touch year round. I’m due to call him now that winter is gone.

 

[Muledeerfanatic]

I can tell you that the deer and antelope numbers were amazing 20 + years ago and 50000-60000 is not far fetched at all
Also there was absolutely nobody out on the winter range at all, just ranchers and game wardens
And no gas wells or roads everywhere
The amount of big bucks was amazing even then

 

[Wyoguy51]

I can remember when the population objective for the Wyoming Range was 50k. Then G&F had their usual spring meetings and announced that they wanted to lower the objective to 30K, because they didn't think it would ever make it back to 50k. While that might be true, it kinda seems like you're changing the football field to 60 yds instead of 100 because it's easier to score on a 60 yd field than a 100 yd field.

I've hunted and watched/filmed/taken pics of this herd for decades. Deer numbers before the winter of '92-'93 were incredible. Even after the harsh winters of '78-'79 and '83-'84, deer numbers always came back. G&F gave out thousands of doe/fawn tags in case a bad winter hit prior to the '92-'93 winter. We hadn't had a killer winter for almost 10 years! In spite of all the extra tags available, winter killed thousands of critters. There were literally twice the deer and antelope that there are now, however, so a significant winterkill wasn't nearly as devastating as this past winter.

A person could legally purchase 13 deer tags and 9 antelope tags. NR tags for the Wyoming Range were in the thousands. 1 buck, 1 additional whitey, What they called "group III" at the time-2 additional doe/fawn, and "Group IV" (Wyoming Range)-9 additional D/F tags. I remember seeing trucks piled to the top of the bed with doe antelope. Folks were literally filling up their truck beds with antelope. Kinda like the pics of the dump trucks full of carcasses from this past winter...

 

[Muledeerfanatic]

Now you see more California plates than you do animals