Insert tune vs. nock tune vs. broadhead alignment

[VIII]

Hey folks, this is only my second post but I frequent the forum as y’all are a wealth of knowledge. So thanks for keeping me squared away.

I’m new to archery (3rd season, 1st season taking it seriously) and have always been a tinkerer and a diy type. So I’m making a run at building my own arrows. The bare shafts are Gold Tip Hunter XT’s. Which I hear anything Gold Tip is widely accepted to be straight as hell, but since I’ll be starting from scratch, I’m entertaining the idea of tuning the piss out of the arrows.

My questions - how vital are nock tuning, insert tuning, and broadhead alignment? Which is most important? And with Easton brass insert, is it possible to insert tune and broadhead align simultaneously?

Other components of the arrows are 2” blazer vanes, deepower illuminated nocks, and either G5 Montec’s or Magnus Black Hornet’s.

Running these through a Mathews V3 31” with a 60lb draw weight (but will bump that to 65 in the future after a shoulder injury is addressed). The bow is more accurate than I am at this point. But I have premade arrows in my quiver that corkscrew like a mf in flight. So trying to change that. I chase whitetail with dreams of sika deer and antelope at some point in my life.

What say you?

 

[Billy Goat]

If your arrows are corkscrewing in flight, it's your tune, not the arrow.

Or widly off weak spine.



All you need to do is square the shafts. Nock tuning is aligning the spine the same across the board. Only way I have found to do that is by physically shooting them.


I have found that I required less nock tuning with stiffer spine shafts, and they are easier to broadhead tune. The stiffer the shaft, the more consistent the reaction is.

 

[doc holiday13]

If your arrows are corkscrewing in flight, it's your tune, not the arrow.

Or widly off weak spine.



All you need to do is square the shafts. Nock tuning is aligning the spine the same across the board. Only way I have found to do that is by physically shooting them.


I have found that I required less nock tuning with stiffer spine shafts, and they are easier to broadhead tune. The stiffer the shaft, the more consistent the reaction is.

x2

Make sure the nock end is square and replace all your nocks with Easton or AAE nocks is basically what should be done before shooting.

 

[Beendare]

You are talking 2 different things of course;
Bow tune….and perfect arrow straightness….both are needed

Here is a link to a extensive tuning thread on another site that will help.
Tuning explained

There are many components to tuning and its not limited to adjustments at the bow. For example, variations in your grip and form can make tuning hit or miss.
.

 

[WI in the west]

you should maybe post your arrow spine, length and point/insert weight and your draw weight. that'll help these guys maybe diagnose any issues before you buy new arrows that are wrong. also is the bow tuned to you shooting it and holding it or someone else cause ive battled grip issues and that can make a big difference on arrow flight and tune eve suttle ones. good luck, itll go fine if you got good consistent form.

 

[LostArra]

Pardon the interruption
Speaking from experience, if you have shoulder issues do not try to evaluate your arrows and your bow when you are fatigued. This can be a point where you don't feel tired overall but your shoulder is toast.
Carry on.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I shoot GT Hunter XT arrows and have never done any of that stuff. I use GT inserts and nocks. I don’t even go crazy on squaring the ends of my arrows. I just try to cut them square and that’s it. It’s been working out for me.

 

[VIII]

If your arrows are corkscrewing in flight, it's your tune, not the arrow.

Or widly off weak spine.



All you need to do is square the shafts. Nock tuning is aligning the spine the same across the board. Only way I have found to do that is by physically shooting them.


I have found that I required less nock tuning with stiffer spine shafts, and they are easier to broadhead tune. The stiffer the shaft, the more consistent the reaction is.

Interesting. My assumption was that I had a wonky or untuned arrow. Over the weekend I had new strings put on and the bow was tuned for me and I haven’t seen the corkscrew since. But your comment has piqued my interest - what would be out of tune to cause the corkscrew?

You shoot bare shaft to find the spine?

 

[VIII]

x2

Make sure the nock end is square and replace all your nocks with Easton or AAE nocks is basically what should be done before shooting.

Will do. I just ordered a squaring tool and will do that prior to diving into the project.

 

[VIII]

You are talking 2 different things of course;
Bow tune….and perfect arrow straightness….both are needed

Here is a link to a extensive tuning thread on another site that will help.
Tuning explained

There are many components to tuning and its not limited to adjustments at the bow. For example, variations in your grip and form can make tuning hit or miss.
.

While I’m far from experienced and my training is 100% based on YouTube videos and experience with firearms, but I was a firearms instructor in the military. So I’m familiar with the fundamentals of shooting and have really been focusing on grip, points of contact and sight alignment before sending it. That said, as soon as I release I know whether or not I’m hitting the x (this bow more accurate than I was expecting).

 

[VIII]

you should maybe post your arrow spine, length and point/insert weight and your draw weight. that'll help these guys maybe diagnose any issues before you buy new arrows that are wrong. also is the bow tuned to you shooting it and holding it or someone else cause ive battled grip issues and that can make a big difference on arrow flight and tune eve suttle ones. good luck, itll go fine if you got good consistent form.

340 spine on 28.75” arrow. Draw weight is 60lbs and length is 29”. The bow is tuned to me. It was an eBay find and I just had new strings and cables put on and tuned to me.

 

[doc holiday13]

Will do. I just ordered a squaring tool and will do that prior to diving into the project.

Start with what Billy Goat said and get your timing checked. Only change one thing at a time. Strings tend to stretch and that will put your bow out of time.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

The things you're asking about come after getting the bow itself tuned. You may have already done these precursory tasks, but here's the order of operations I would recommend. FYI these tasks require some specialized tools (bow press, drawboard, draw weight scale).

1. Fully tighten both limb bolts then measure draw weight, axle-to-axle (ATA) length, and brace height. Adjust cable twists as needed to get these parameters to the manufacturer's spec.
2. Check cam sync. Adjust cable twists to get both draw stops hitting at the same time.
3. Adjust rest windage to 13/16" centershot (horizontal distance from inside of riser to centerline of arrow).
4. Adjust rest elevation and d-loop location to get arrow running level through the middle of the Berger hole (threaded hole in riser for mounting rest).
5. Shoot a few test arrows to check for vane contact.
6. Begin tuning using whatever method you prefer. I personally use paper tuning to initially get in the ballpark, then bareshaft tuning to refine, and broadhead tuning to finalize. The charts below show how to interpret your tuning shots and what adjustments to make. Broadhead tuning is mandatory for a hunter; the other methods are optional precursors that you may want to use for the sake of convenience and/or saving wear on your target.

As you're tuning, if you notice a particular arrow consistently landing outside the group (number each individual arrow to help you keep track), then address that particular arrow. If you find a problem arrow, first put it on a spinner to visually check for misalignment then try nock tuning (if it passes the straightness check).

I've never felt the need to try broadhead alignment (by which I assume you mean orienting the blades of the broadhead in a particular way). I've always just screwed on broadheads and shot them however they ended up. If you did want to align the blades in a particular manner, it's easy to do after arrow assembly if you use heat reversible glue (aka, "hot melt") to secure your inserts...screw in a broadhead, carefully apply indirect heat to soften the glue, rotate broadhead to desired orientation, let glue cool. If you use permanent adhesive, putting some sort of shim on the broadhead shank will be necessary to adjust blade orientation on an already assembled arrow.

I'm not sure what you mean by insert tuning. Is that essentially the same thing as radially aligning broadheads? If so, my opinion is the same...it's unnecessary IME but easily doable if you use hot melt.

*edited to add Gold Tip tuning charts...attachments didn't stick the first time

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Corkscrewing in flight could be caused by vane contact or the bow being out of tune. I've also seen some corkscrewing that I later concluded was just an artifact of some combination of lighting/vane color/imagination because the arrows were still grouping well behind the pin.

 

[VIII]

Pardon the interruption
Speaking from experience, if you have shoulder issues do not try to evaluate your arrows and your bow when you are fatigued. This can be a point where you don't feel tired overall but your shoulder is toast.
Carry on.

I keep my range time short. I’ve learned the hard way that the quickest way to ruin a day (for me at least) is to go to the range and suck. Actually on my way to the doc now to see if surgical intervention is necessary or what the fix is. Pro tip, if you box, don’t throw a wild left hook and then have the injury addressed 8 years later.

 

[stoopiddumbman]

If it was me I would have a good hard look at that rest and consider throwing it into a river way before I worried at all about building a perfect arrow.

 

[VIII]

The things you're asking about come after getting the bow itself tuned. You may have already done these precursory tasks, but here's the order of operations I would recommend. FYI these tasks require some specialized tools (bow press, drawboard, draw weight scale).

1. Fully tighten both limb bolts then measure draw weight, axle-to-axle (ATA) length, and brace height. Adjust cable twists as needed to get these parameters to the manufacturer's spec.
2. Check cam sync. Adjust cable twists to get both draw stops hitting at the same time.
3. Adjust rest windage to 13/16" centershot (horizontal distance from inside of riser to centerline of arrow).
4. Adjust rest elevation and d-loop location to get arrow running level through the middle of the Berger hole (threaded hole in riser for mounting rest).
5. Shoot a few test arrows to check for vane contact.
6. Begin tuning using whatever method you prefer. I personally use paper tuning to initially get in the ballpark, then bareshaft tuning to refine, and broadhead tuning to finalize. The charts below show how to interpret your tuning shots and what adjustments to make. Broadhead tuning is mandatory for a hunter; the other methods are optional precursors that you may want to use for the sake of convenience and/or saving wear on your target.

As you're tuning, if you notice a particular arrow consistently landing outside the group (number each individual arrow to help you keep track), then address that particular arrow. If you find a problem arrow, first put it on a spinner to visually check for misalignment then try nock tuning (if it passes the straightness check).

I've never felt the need to try broadhead alignment (by which I assume you mean orienting the blades of the broadhead in a particular way). I've always just screwed on broadheads and shot them however they ended up. If you did want to align the blades in a particular manner, it's easy to do after arrow assembly if you use heat reversible glue (aka, "hot melt") to secure your inserts...screw in a broadhead, carefully apply indirect heat to soften the glue, rotate broadhead to desired orientation, let glue cool. If you use permanent adhesive, putting some sort of shim on the broadhead shank will be necessary to adjust blade orientation on an already assembled arrow.

I'm not sure what you mean by insert tuning. Is that essentially the same thing as radially aligning broadheads? If so, my opinion is the same...it's unnecessary IME but easily doable if you use hot melt.

To everyone following, I truly appreciate the advice and things to consider.

At the shop I’m going to we’ve done 1, 2, 4 and 5. I’m using a whisker biscuit (on purpose). I understand they’re less accurate but the piece of mind I have in the arrow sitting secure outweighs the cost for me. When setting up, I made sure it was level but it’s not set to 13/16”. I forget what I have it set to but it’s slightly less than that on account of it coming in contact with the string roller arm. I did bare shaft tune to ensure alignment though and current arrows are impacting straight.

Insert tuning - aligning the insert in the shaft where there is least amount of wobble. Again, 100% novice I turn to YouTube for a lot of guidance and one person was showing how to find that point where the arrow spins most straight. Which, as you can imagine, would make blade orientation virtually impossible. Or at least in my uneducated and not very smart head.

 

[VIII]

If it was me I would have a good hard look at that rest and consider throwing it into a river way before I worried at all about building a perfect arrow.

Hahahaha! I keep reading that. It may be my next purchase? I have concerns about the arrow jumping off the rest though. I get pretty excited when a shooter steps within range and the less I have to check on the better for me.

 

[stoopiddumbman]

Most of the rests are captured so you'd really have to be convulsing for an arrow to come out. I have a QAD it works well and made a huge difference in my arrows consistently grouping well. I would like to try a Hamskea next as I have read on here that they are more durable. Mine hasn't broke but I can places on it where I could have problems with my hunting style.

 

[Tilzbow]

To everyone following, I truly appreciate the advice and things to consider.


Insert tuning - aligning the insert in the shaft where there is least amount of wobble. Again, 100% novice I turn to YouTube for a lot of guidance and one person was showing how to find that point where the arrow spins most straight. Which, as you can imagine, would make blade orientation virtually impossible. Or at least in my uneducated and not very smart head.

Don‘t waste your time. Aligning broad heads blades the same on each arrow, most commonly with the fletching, does nothing to help with accuracy or tuning. If you believe it helps (it doesn’t) then I suppose it might give you a little more confidence in your setup or could help align the arrows the same in a quiver so the fletching on the arrows doesn’t touch which can create unwanted noise.

Lastly, I’ve never had an insert that didn’t align if the shaft was squared after cutting it. Outserts for sure but never an insert.