Insert Issue with Easton Axis arrows

[MADD BEAR]

Absolutely not "Far Superior". No practical benefit and in some cases inferior in my opinion because it has downsides. Remember, if you come out with a "Fix" and post a full video on it that people don't agree with, you should be prepared to get feedback on it. That doesn't make everyone else thick headed and condescending and you a saint...

My reasons: I am primarily a hunter. But, I routinely shoot multiple broadheads and I routinely practice with my hunting arrows. And, I'm not running a collar for most of my practice with my hunting arrows because over time you will damage the collar pulling them out of certain targets done repetitively.

If you build a setup the way you do, you're limiting your ability to switch and have any perceived benefits, and in some cases the head may no longer sit flush to the carbon. Second - I think you're applying a "fix" for something else going wrong.

If you want to do something, why not just install the HIT normally, then use an Iron Will collar without gluing it on, and run with it? Spins perfectly, gives you extra support where needed, removable, and allows you to switch broadheads...

I'd also suggest looking for some of the other potential issues people have been pointing out. If you're getting failures at a higher rate than everyone else - it's something else in your process.

Thanks brother. I appreciate your criticism. Wish you all the best in your hunts for 2021.


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[5MilesBack]

I wish they sold these impact collars right from easton with their arrows, as I think they are necessary.

Maybe this is why Easton is moving towards a newer outsert system for their new 4mm axis arrows.

If you think they are necessary for you, then perhaps they are.

Easton is probably moving towards a newer outsert system because that seems to be the popular thing these days. But personally, I've always hated outserts and/or half outs because eventually they bend and then the arrow doesn't spin true anymore. A true spinning arrow is a high priority for me. They also impart more lateral force on the arrow shaft on deflections or off angle hits.

But that's the great thing about options.......we can all make our own choices for what's best for us. Just this last week I was actually looking at adding some of the IW inserts and collars to my order for some arrows I'm going to try out. But I just couldn't justify all that added expense to an arrow for something that hasn't been a problem for me in 13+ years.

 

[Brendan]

Thanks brother. I appreciate your criticism. Wish you all the best in your hunts for 2021.

Likewise, you too.

 

[OR Archer]

Yeah Easton axis are tough shafts. I had one blow out and that was enough for me to get into collars. I wish they sold these impact collars right from easton with their arrows, as I think they are necessary.

Maybe this is why Easton is moving towards a newer outsert system for their new 4mm axis arrows. Easton obviously knows that the HIT inserts require special shank lengths that is why they sell their special field points for them.

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This is not why they are doing this. This is so they can move away from the Deep Six inserts. Nothing to do with more strength. In fact a half out of that design is far more susceptible to failure than a HIT insert as well as other issues.

 

[Brendan]

One more point, I forget the testing on this but maybe someone else will remember. Are you using the small stone chamfer tool that Easton provides on the ID of the shaft?

I always have, and I seem to remember a discussion on the merits of doing so related to arrow strength but can't remember...

Anyone else remember?

 

[5MilesBack]

I just noticed also that in another thread you said that you didn't use the 2-part epoxy for your HIT's in your Axis shafts. That could also be a huge problem for you on hard hits. If the glue you're using doesn't hold, then ya.......the tip/BH will most likely get pushed back into the end of the shaft and split it. That's why I like the 24 hour 2-part epoxy........so the inserts won't break free on hard hits.

 

[MADD BEAR]

Yes. This shaft was assembled in the standard way. I used the HIT tool and used 2-part epoxy. It was squared, chamfered and spun for trueness.

I used this set up during 2019/2020, and as you can see the end of the carbon has damage from shooting. Yes I could use my squaring tool and fix it. But I don’t like that I should have to do that and reduce my overall length, even by a hair.

Now I use the same hot melt method of attaching my point/insert that the olympic archers use on their gear. I don’t shoot target archery, if I am shooting into foam it is strictly for tuning. All my small game heads are judos. I dont use field points other than for tuning. Please understand where I am coming from here.

I seen a flaw in the engineering of my arrows and I felt the need to correct it and i feel i did just that. If this is irrelevant to you, sorry to waste your time. If there is even one person out there who I can help, cool. Just sharing some knowledge with other like minded individuals. If you think I’m crazy, tell me to f—k off, i dont really care.


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[MADD BEAR]

Big game Canadian hunter.

Me and my cronies get moose and elk annually. Just want to be efficient and not have arrows explode inside a large animal due to a bone hit.


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[5MilesBack]

What spine arrows do you shoot?

Have you really had arrows explode or even break at the tip from hitting bone? Point blank at rocks or concrete I can see........but on bone? I regularly shoot my arrows through 3/4" plywood (even at severe angles) and also 2x6's without any damage.

 

[Billy Goat]

What spine arrows do you shoot?

Have you really had arrows explode or even break at the tip from hitting bone? Point blank at rocks or concrete I can see........but on bone? I regularly shoot my arrows through 3/4" plywood (even at severe angles) and also 2x6's without any damage.

I can see if using hot melt with no collar you could have issues.

OP:
If you are going to knock a system, make sure you are using the whole system. I use cool melt a lot, I wouldn't use it for hits, maybe with a collar like you are doing.

 

[MADD BEAR]

Right now, my bow has a set of day six 250’s, 300 axis, 300 easton 6.5mm, and those trad axis arrows were tuned to my older longbow. Those are 400.

I have a different configuration for what ever I am hunting. Maybe I’m just a mad man, but I classify my arrows into 5 different categories for hunting.

Big game (moose/elk)
Deer
Birds (turkey/woodcock/duck/goose/pheasant)
Predator (coon/coyote/hyena feral dogs/possum)
Small game (squirrel,fox,bunnies, etc.)

I dont like arrowing nasty gross predators with my good deer arrows. Different platform for the different hunts. I set up each of these configurations a little differently. Yes I am OCD.


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[MADD BEAR]

I can see if using hot melt with no collar you could have issues.

OP:
If you are going to knock a system, make sure you are using the whole system. I use cool melt a lot, I wouldn't use it for hits, maybe with a collar like you are doing.

I never said I used hot melt with no collar... please read. I use the hot melt with the impact collar and once the insert is direct bonded to my broad head. No issues yet


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[Billy Goat]

I never said I used hot melt with no collar... please read. I use the hot melt with the impact collar and once the insert is direct bonded to my broad head. No issues yet


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Sorry, I saw this:

Now I use the same hot melt method of attaching my point/insert that the olympic archers use on their gear

Thought you meant you were using the hot melt on your hits.

Guess you are saying you now use that method, previously you only used the epoxy?

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

This was a 300 axis with a standard aluminum HIT insert i was shooting spitfires and hit the knuckle. The threads of the head snapped in the insert. Been using footers since. I think it was a freak thing, I know people who have killed 10x the animals I have with the HIT System with zero failures.

 

[MattB]

Thanks for sharing but this seems like a solution to a problem only you have.

 

[Brendan]

A couple wild guesses

What's your prep on the arrow shaft? Not soaking in acetone or anything like that?

How are you cutting arrows to length? High speed arrow saw? Not something that could weaken or chip the carbon?

Have your issues been with multiple batches of arrows, or just one specific dozen?

 

[5MilesBack]

You showed those Traditional Axis with chipping on the end (shot with a traditional bow no less)........I have no experience with those arrows or the traditional thing. But were your Day Six and Axis 300's giving you the same problem?

I'm pretty OCD as well, and I've never been able to keep inserts in arrows that were installed with hotmelt or coolmelt. They always pulled out just shooting into foam. That's why I use epoxy on all my inserts, except my aluminum core ACC's. Hotmelt seems to work fine on bonding aluminum to aluminum.

But if you can keep your inserts in place with hotmelt, I certainly don't see any issues with doing it all your way.....except the cost.

 

[MADD BEAR]

Sorry, I saw this:



Thought you meant you were using the hot melt on your hits.

Guess you are saying you now use that method, previously you only used the epoxy?

Correctomundo brother


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[MADD BEAR]

This was a 300 axis with a standard aluminum HIT insert i was shooting spitfires and hit the knuckle. The threads of the head snapped in the insert. Been using footers since. I think it was a freak thing, I know people who have killed 10x the animals I have with the HIT System with zero failures. View attachment 264501

THIS!

I had the exact thing happen but with a zwickey broadhead. The threads snapped off in the insert. It isnt like every shot I took it exploded like this. But if theres even a slight chance of it happening I want ti eliminate it.

Thanks for posting.


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[MADD BEAR]

You showed those Traditional Axis with chipping on the end (shot with a traditional bow no less)........I have no experience with those arrows or the traditional thing. But were your Day Six and Axis 300's giving you the same problem?

I'm pretty OCD as well, and I've never been able to keep inserts in arrows that were installed with hotmelt or coolmelt. They always pulled out just shooting into foam. That's why I use epoxy on all my inserts, except my aluminum core ACC's. Hotmelt seems to work fine on bonding aluminum to aluminum.

But if you can keep your inserts in place with hotmelt, I certainly don't see any issues with doing it all your way.....except the cost.

My hunting arrows are only shot to tune and then at game animals. Never had any problems with inserts slipping or coming loose with 3M hot melt.

Never had any of my bareshafts come loose either and I shoot in the cold and the summer high humid heat. Thats my experience only though, what works for me may not work for you.

Thanks for everyone contributing to this discussion. I only want my bow hunting brethren to have the best arrows possible. Not trying to fuel a pissing contest or sway opinion. If my research helps you, great. If not, sorry to waste your time.


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