In case anybody was worried about land prices...

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

So three quarters of the year they're working 80 hour weeks.

As already mentioned, not good at math, but 75% of 52 weeks is 39. So no, they're not working 80 hour weeks 3/4 of the year. More like 30% or less IME, or roughly about the same number of weeks me and a lot of my peers put in.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I own few acres. You aren’t going to find to much land that pays for itself anymore. What you find is a capital investment that appreciates and has non-guaranteed dividends.

I’m always looking for more land to buy. I’m not just using it’s income to pay for it though. I use the whole farm to pay for it.

You can never just look at a price per acre and say it’s absurd. That property my have a water easement/usage agreement, road frontage, river access, commercial irrigation well, rock query, wind or solar lease, etc.

Basically its dumb to hypothesize on why someone paid what they did, for some thing that they don’t make more of.

My thoughts atleast

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Left out at least one re-plant and sometimes 2 due to flooding/excessive rain in the spring list and the summer list doesnt mention levee gates, or water for rice nor dealing with watering beans that arent under a pivot. Whole slew of other stuff not touched on for southern farming too.

Don't grow rice up in these parts that I know of, maybe some in the Missouri or Mississippi valleys on the borders. Flooding and draining rice fields sounds like a huge pain in the ass, and I appreciate your effort.

Not too many pivots around my area either. There were a few, but most have been disassembled in the last several years.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Yeah this is true I've thrown many a bale of hay in my younger days might have gotten more done if we spent more time stacking bals & less time
With the farmer's daughter

Very little square bailing going on in this area anymore. Almost all big rounds, not like the old days.

 

[mossyoak52]

Very little square bailing going on in this area anymore. Almost all big rounds, not like the old days

Very few actual farms left anymore farming is a dying tradition

 

[cuerro viejo]

Most of the AG farmers I know do a bit of livestock just to stay busy year around. There is always something to do on the farm but it's completely different with animals vs plants.

Cattle on farm land is ROI prediction.

It’s prediction of winter wheat yearling gain/market vs fertilizer and water costs. Some years it’s not worth the increase in fertilizer to run yearlings on winter wheat, some years it is, unfortunately it’s hard to predict. I’ve had many years of loss or break even(which is still a loss) but I’ve also had years where I had the right cattle, right amount of rain and done well.

Now there is a second mind set and that’s if you are in a low soil quality or lower moisture area and you are just want to hold your own yearlings over and don’t care about combining.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Very few actual farms left anymore farming is a dying tradition

Roger that. When the traditional corn/bean/alfalfa and other crop rotations were abandoned for intensive corn/bean only, lots of things changed. Hell a lot of guys will go corn on corn 2 or more seasons in a row in some cases.

One interesting program that is gaining steam locally this year to offset potentially constrained wheat exports from Ukraine and Russia is for farmers to plant winter wheat. I heard one of the bigger seed companies is putting some hefty guarantees on the winter wheat harvest next year if farmers follow the program re: if the wheat fails their 2023 corn seed is free.

For the guys that have started planting rye cover crops in the fall, they would simply replace with winter wheat. For guys not using cover crops already, it would be an additional crop from the same acreage with the one main risk being potentially later corn and bean planting next year. It will be interesting to see how many get on board with this new program.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Roger that. When the traditional corn/bean/alfalfa and other crop rotations were abandoned for intensive corn/bean only, lots of things changed. Hell a lot of guys will go corn on corn 2 or more seasons in a row in some cases.

One interesting program that is gaining steam locally this year to offset potentially constrained wheat exports from Ukraine and Russia is for farmers to plant winter wheat. I heard one of the bigger seed companies is putting some hefty guarantees on the winter wheat harvest next year if farmers follow the program re: if the wheat fails their 2023 corn seed is free.

For the guys that have started planting rye cover crops in the fall, they would simply replace with winter wheat. For guys not using cover crops already, it would be an additional crop from the same acreage with the one main risk being potentially later corn and bean planting next year. It will be interesting to see how many get on board with this new program.

Wheats at an all time high but it’s still hasn’t matched inflation, it’s a very very dangerous game contracting this far out.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Also alfalfa is a three year rotation. It’s the most expensive thing to plant and starts to petter out and need reseeding year 3. So your rotation is off from get go. You wouldn’t rotate it out every year. To expensive and poor ROI off just one year.

Most likely they got tired of messing with it as the Dairy industry is shrinking. Corn/bean rotation is a smart one as is still a legume putting nitrogen back in the soil like alfalfa

 

[Dos Perros]

As already mentioned, not good at math, but 75% of 52 weeks is 39. So no, they're not working 80 hour weeks 3/4 of the year. More like 30% or less IME, or roughly about the same number of weeks me and a lot of my peers put in.

Maybe the farmers I know are doing it wrong. Maybe it's easier in Iowa? One I have in mind works his absolute ass off. He has the second largest farm in his county (maybe the largest now) and then they have a bunch of ground in Colorado. He could probably average 40 hour weeks if he could find more good help.

None of the farmers I know hunt, because who has time for that?

 

[southLA]

flooding and draining rice fields sounds like a huge pain in the ass

It is. Grew up doing it for free for Pops

I guess I tend to view farming from a rice farming point of view and can now see where you're coming from. From March to October, rice farmers work nonstop before moving into the winter/spring aquaculture.

 

[Skerhunter]

Non-livestock producing farmers...

In the spring:
1- Pick up or receive seed
2- Fertilize (if not done in the fall)
3- Spray pre-emergence
4- Work the ground (usually field cultivator or conditioner)
5- Plant
6- Spray post-emerge

Summer:
-Meet for coffee at 6am every day at the local gas station or elevator
-Go to farm shows
-Prep harvest equipment
-Haul grain

In the fall:
1- Harvest- combine, auger cart, haul grain to elevator, ethanol plant, or personal bin site
2- Fertilize or lime
3- Work the ground
4- Winterize equipment

You forgot the part where you can hire someone to plant and harvest for you too (most people do one or the other). Most people also hire out someone to spray for them as well. That opens up a lot more free time!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Also alfalfa is a three year rotation. It’s the most expensive thing to plant and starts to petter out and need reseeding year 3. So your rotation is off from get go. You wouldn’t rotate it out every year. To expensive and poor ROI off just one year.

Most likely they got tired of messing with it as the Dairy industry is shrinking. Corn/bean rotation is a smart one as is still a legume putting nitrogen back in the soil like alfalfa

Its funny you mention alfalfa. I've had my 11 acres of hay ground rented every year since 2003 and about 4 were in alfalfa and it was sowed before we bought the place. That stand always got grassy ahead of the first cutting every season, but after the first cut the cold season grasses got squelched by the alfalfa. Guy would normally get 3 cuttings depending on rain, and he never once had to overseed or fertilize the alfalfa during this time. In fact, the alfalfa spread to other areas of the ground over time when the seeds were dispersed by the round baler.

This is the first year I didn't hay the ground as I'm putting in a windbreak and native grasses/prairie restoration program. When I dug the holes for the 200 dogwoods, plums, cedars, spruces, and white pines, some of those alfalfa plants had stalks as big around as a quarter under the ground.

Crop rotations also used to provide the benefit of pest control as well. Running corn on corn or even corn/bean rotation can build and concentrate common insect and weed pests. You can't ever kill them all either and when this happens both build resistance to chemicals. Rotating in alfalfa or another crop can disrup these cycles.

My neighbor that lives in the section to the south recently built a 3/4 mile runway on the west half of the section and rents it out to a crop dusting outfit. Once the corn and beans are canopied and too tall to get into with traditional spray equipment that company runs 2 planes pretty much constant from July through August. The end of the runway is less than a half mile straight SW of my house. The novelty of watching airplanes take off and land has worn off let me tell you.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

You forgot the part where you can hire someone to plant and harvest for you too (most people do one or the other). Most people also hire out someone to spray for them as well. That opens up a lot more free time!

There is definitely some of that going on too. For example, the family that farms the section I live on, with the exception of our place and an 80 in the NE corner, rent or custom farm around 5 sections in the surrounding area from an attorney in Des Moines. The guy was born here and was left all this ground when his father passed away a few years ago. His father was a local and never farmed it either. He was blessed to be born into one of those "old money" families built before and after the Kruschev days. All they care about is the bird and deer hunting, and I'm guessing whether the farming makes or loses money is either gravy on top or a tax write off for them. These guys run the biggest and best green equipment you can find.

In contrast my neighbor to the south with the air strip rents a ton of ground, but also owns quite a bit of his own. He has a very diversified operation with crop and a few hundred head of cows/calves. His operation runs it from soup to nuts and own a couple of the big green sprayers. In this area, the nearest coop with sprayers is about 8 miles away, so lots of guys have bought used Ro-Gotors, Hagie's, and green sprayers and built out mobile chemical plants on flatbed semi trailers. They mount a 6,000 gallon stainless tank on the front and one in the back plumbed into the chemcial and mixing aparatus in the center. Basically hauling the same as two tender trucks from back in the 90s when I was in the industry.

 

[cuerro viejo]

You forgot the part where you can hire someone to plant and harvest for you too (most people do one or the other). Most people also hire out someone to spray for them as well. That opens up a lot more free time!

All economics of scale and diversification.

Not everyone farms enough ground to justify 600k plus combine or spray rig

Corp sharing isn’t always a bad way to roll also especially if you have a primary job that pays more. But it’s still being farmed by someone.

I alway find peoples theories interesting.

 

[darcytribe]

MSN

 

[cuerro viejo]

There is definitely some of that going on too. For example, the family that farms the section I live on, with the exception of our place and an 80 in the NE corner, rent or custom farm around 5 sections in the surrounding area from an attorney in Des Moines. The guy was born here and was left all this ground when his father passed away a few years ago. His father was a local and never farmed it either. He was blessed to be born into one of those "old money" families built before and after the Kruschev days. All they care about is the bird and deer hunting, and I'm guessing whether the farming makes or loses money is either gravy on top or a tax write off for them. These guys run the biggest and best green equipment you can find.

In contrast my neighbor to the south with the air strip rents a ton of ground, but also owns quite a bit of his own. He has a very diversified operation with crop and a few hundred head of cows/calves. His operation runs it from soup to nuts and own a couple of the big green sprayers. In this area, the nearest coop with sprayers is about 8 miles away, so lots of guys have bought used Ro-Gotors, Hagie's, and green sprayers and built out mobile chemical plants on flatbed semi trailers. They mount a 6,000 gallon stainless tank on the front and one in the back plumbed into the chemcial and mixing aparatus in the center. Basically hauling the same as two tender trucks from back in the 90s when I was in the industry.

I bet he is just crop sharing it out, so lawyer has no equipment expenses, he just takes what every percentage of the grain minus (fertilizer/irrigation/herbicide) expensives. As far as new equipment most of the stuff now a days is leased, easier to right off, and most the newer equipment comes with service contracts since technically you are not personally working on anything Green on your own.

No way to know how well someone is doing farming by mere perception of lifestyle or equipment.

 

[cuerro viejo]

MSN

That AG is an idiot. You are robbing individuals of liability release by doing this, that’s also not even counting estate planning.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Its funny you mention alfalfa. I've had my 11 acres of hay ground rented every year since 2003 and about 4 were in alfalfa and it was sowed before we bought the place. That stand always got grassy ahead of the first cutting every season, but after the first cut the cold season grasses got squelched by the alfalfa. Guy would normally get 3 cuttings depending on rain, and he never once had to overseed or fertilize the alfalfa during this time. In fact, the alfalfa spread to other areas of the ground over time when the seeds were dispersed by the round baler.

This is the first year I didn't hay the ground as I'm putting in a windbreak and native grasses/prairie restoration program. When I dug the holes for the 200 dogwoods, plums, cedars, spruces, and white pines, some of those alfalfa plants had stalks as big around as a quarter under the ground.

Crop rotations also used to provide the benefit of pest control as well. Running corn on corn or even corn/bean rotation can build and concentrate common insect and weed pests. You can't ever kill them all either and when this happens both build resistance to chemicals. Rotating in alfalfa or another crop can disrup these cycles.

My neighbor that lives in the section to the south recently built a 3/4 mile runway on the west half of the section and rents it out to a crop dusting outfit. Once the corn and beans are canopied and too tall to get into with traditional spray equipment that company runs 2 planes pretty much constant from July through August. The end of the runway is less than a half mile straight SW of my house. The novelty of watching airplanes take off and land has worn off let me tell you.

Residual isn’t alway optimized. I re-sow every third year or turn under and run some else. With fertilizer as high as it is this year, those sections on the decline got tilled and will be corn summer and winter wheat or barley fall/winter.

Hindsight with droughts setting in to the South Wests I probably should of re-sowed.

 

[Skerhunter]

All economics of scale and diversification.

Not everyone farms enough ground to justify 600k plus combine or spray rig

Corp sharing isn’t always a bad way to roll also especially if you have a primary job that pays more. But it’s still being farmed by someone.

I alway find peoples theories interesting.

You are correct - My post was in response to "how busy a midwest farmer actually is"! I've watched guys work around the clock- year round and lose the farm. I know guys who work just as hard and make a good living. I know guys that work way less than I do and have made a shit ton of money (better businessmen - not all farmers are smart). When I worked on the family farm, we put up hay all summer. If we didn't do that we had about 2 hours of work to do everyday (irrigate and check cows on pasture). If there weren't any cows to feed, we literally would have just sat around the shop and stared at each other all winter.