In between 340 and 300 spine

[illwt24]

I ran my numbers through Archers Advantage and it states my current set up is "Too Weak". i currently am shooting the Vertix w/ 27.5" draw @ 70lbs. My arrows are Easton 5mm FMJ's @ 28.625" (yes i like shooting a slightly longer arrow, maybe too long) w/ 125 up front, 6" wrap and a 3 AAE Max Hunter fletch @ 340 spine. standard x nock and standard HIT insert. i have played with the numbers and cutting down my arrows to 28", which puts me basically flush with the riser and it goes to "Moderately Weak". Not enough for me. i change my arrow length back to 28.625" and switch to 300 spine and i get "Optimal". i cant remember exactly, but my FOC then gets low, say like 9.5%. I am shooting decent groups with my current set up and i am skeptical to make the switch. i have been thinking i am seeing that "parachuting" effect on my arrow flight but i have not payed this much mind as i think my mind is playing tricks on me. Maybe i should look further into this???? My questions is, should i make the switch to 300s?

 

[Jskaanland]

Have you shot through paper? You could buy 6 300s. Try them out and see how they do. Also if that 300 spine is too stiff you could go with 150s. I'm trying a similar setup right now, 300 vaps with 150( I stole a few from another guy on here)

 

[jspradley]

If you are getting good flight and grouping well why change it?

And, this may sound kinda dickish but please don't take it that way, can you shoot well enough already that the tiny little tweak is going to make a noticeable effect on your grouping?

 

[illwt24]

I realized after i posted this that i should have tuned first and then maybe put the thread up. I have not though. I would imagine it will give me the answers im looking for. 150's would help out my FOC problem. Good advice. Much appreciated.

 

[illwt24]

If you are getting good flight and grouping well why change it?

And, this may sound kinda dickish but please don't take it that way, can you shoot well enough already that the tiny little tweak is going to make a noticeable effect on your grouping?

That's kind of where i am at. Why change right? I guess my head is saying, can i get them better. i am not a veteran archer by any means but i shoot well enough to see if a change improved something or not. Not sure if that change is too minute to see a difference. Thats why i reached out.

 

[ddavis_1313]

Depending on what you want, you could shoot 300’s and add brass in the front to “weaken” spine and get you higher foc. I shoot a halon 32 5” and axis arrows cut at 27.5 or 28 (don’t remember). My draw is 27.5. They have 50 grains of brass and I shoot 125 heads. AA says they spine out perfectly and have fox around 16%. 340 spine. And they hit like hammers


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[Billy Goat]

Tune first. If you are having issues try going to 100 grain heads. That will have you proportionally close to 300/125 points. If you don't notice a difference in accuracy and don't want a heavier arrow I would just shoot 340/100 setup. If wanting more weight change up to the 300/125 setup.

Other thing is while tuning to back off your limb bolts until you are getting it to tune. I find that playing with point weight and draw weight is the easiest way to determine where your setup needs to be. The programs are helpful to get you in the ballpark, but they aren't absolute.

 

[illwt24]

Yeah thats exactly what i was thinking of doing. Im currently at 504 grains w/ the 340s and 125's. Making the change to 300 i will be around 525 grains. if i find them too stiff i was going to add the brass but that puts my at ~575 grains. thats a heavy arrow!! I guess i could go to 100's. Still shooting a rock though. Maybe a switch to carbons.....

 

[Beendare]

Too stiff? Thats not a thing.

.....you don't want to be underspined.

 

[illwt24]

Tune first. If you are having issues try going to 100 grain heads. That will have you proportionally close to 300/125 points. If you don't notice a difference in accuracy and don't want a heavier arrow I would just shoot 340/100 setup. If wanting more weight change up to the 300/125 setup.

Other thing is while tuning to back off your limb bolts until you are getting it to tune. I find that playing with point weight and draw weight is the easiest way to determine where your setup needs to be. The programs are helpful to get you in the ballpark, but they aren't absolute.

340/100 puts my FOC around 8.4-8.5%. i am not a FOC fanatic but i would like it to be at least 10. Adding brass would put me in the same situation. if i tune good with say the 340/100, should I be ok with that FOC?

 

[TreyPound]

my Omen and Omen max would not shoot a 340 spine nearly as well as 300 no matter what i did...with a 27" DL 70-72 DW . Aggressive cams like stiffer arrows same as my Decree IC...you might be fine with a 340 would be best to shoot both and see..
but if not possible i would go with the 300....

 

[Billy Goat]

340/100 puts my FOC around 8.4-8.5%. i am not a FOC fanatic but i would like it to be at least 10. Adding brass would put me in the same situation. if i tune good with say the 340/100, should I be ok with that FOC?

I would want a little more. But ultimately for me it comes down to if it tunes. And that's not paper tuning, that's broadhead impacting with field points. I suspect you will have issue getting that to work.

Fmj's are just heavy shafts, hard to get good foc with them without going way heavy. I run 400 spine fmj's cut to 26 3/8" with 125 points. That setup is only 11.8 foc.

I think I would play with the shafts you have and see if you get things to tune by either adjusting draw weight or point weight. If they don't and you want to stay past 28.5" arrow length I think you would be better to change to a lighter weight shaft. As suggested before.

 

[codym]

Are you shooting good groups with bh’s? I have similar stats as you and was running a 350 spine arrow and it shot and tuned well with Field points. When I went to fixed blade Broadheads is when things went south. I needed a 300 spine. Lost some speed of course but really quieted the bow down. I added weight up front get my foc where I wanted it. I will always go stiffer based on that experience, it was so frustrating.

 

[illwt24]

Are you shooting good groups with bh’s? I have similar stats as you and was running a 350 spine arrow and it shot and tuned well with Field points. When I went to fixed blade Broadheads is when things went south. I needed a 300 spine. Lost some speed of course but really quieted the bow down. I added weight up front get my foc where I wanted it. I will always go stiffer based on that experience, it was so frustrating.

i haven't shot bh yets. i was in between a few and haven't pulled the trigger on one yet. i typically shoot mechanicals. i assumed i would be in a world of hurt if i was that underspined with bh's. i will throw some fixed on there today to see how it handles. its a new set up and i need to do alot more work before september.

 

[codym]

That’s definitely where it showed up for me. It sucked because I shot 3d all summer and was super confident in my setup. A month out from my elk hunt I started shooting bh’s everything went to shit. I almost had a melt down. Shooting good groups at 80 to missing the target at 50 will really screw with you. Now mechanicals may not have had such a dramatic effect but I’ve never shot them so I don’t know.

 

[gretch6364]

That’s definitely where it showed up for me. It sucked because I shot 3d all summer and was super confident in my setup. A month out from my elk hunt I started shooting bh’s everything went to shit. I almost had a melt down. Shooting good groups at 80 to missing the target at 50 will really screw with you. Now mechanicals may not have had such a dramatic effect but I’ve never shot them so I don’t know.

Great lesson. So many of us wait to shoot broadheads until right before the season. I am making sure to shoot them right away and get everything sorted out now and not in August.

 

[Topo_trekker]

Why do you like to shoot a long arrow?

Going longer than 1” in front of rest is not optimal for tuning. Cut another 1/4 so your 27.75 or whatever puts you in the green. A short arrow will out perform a longer arrow every time in flight characteristics.

I always usually tune with magnus stingers, cheap, plus they have 100,125,150. If you can get those to fly, everything else will perform great.


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[illwt24]

Why do you like to shoot a long arrow?

Going longer than 1” in front of rest is not optimal for tuning. Cut another 1/4 so your 27.75 or whatever puts you in the green. A short arrow will out perform a longer arrow every time in flight characteristics.

I always usually tune with magnus stingers, cheap, plus they have 100,125,150. If you can get those to fly, everything else will perform great.


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to be honest, i have no explanation. i assume it was from when i started and cut them long to avoid bh contact with fingers. i had poor form then. now-a-days it not an issue but i still always cut them longer and never had any issues with tuning until now.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'd cut down what you have. You could probably run 125 head and a 50 grain insert. I like them cut at the Berger hole. Sometimes +,- a little to get better on spine. You want to be on the stuff side generally for better bh flight.

 

[Topo_trekker]

Yup, cut em down.

As far as parachuting, is your nock height correct? Center of arrow lines up with center of Berger hole at full draw.


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