Idaho NR general tag going to draw?

[Pacific_Fork]

but the herds cannot withstand it.

Based off what evidence? Your anecdotal experience?

Mule deer are suffering all across the west and resident hunters are at the bottom of the list when it comes to causes. Go ahead and ask the professionals.

I too would like less hunters in my honey holes, but not at the expense of turning these units to draw and not hunting every fall.

 

[Idaboy]

Just a FYI. for the last 3 years I have waited in line with Idaho outfitters to buy tags, they were there to buy additional nonresident elk/deer tags. I chatter with both I had met and asked them about the tags. Both mentioned the that the tags they were allotted by IDFG would not support their business or families. So, they sold nonresident elk/deer hunts with a guaranteed tag.

Not out fault they've chosen a certain job. Beyond me why outfitters get entitlements and government hand outs

 

[Customweld]

Just a FYI. for the last 3 years I have waited in line with Idaho outfitters to buy tags, they were there to buy additional nonresident elk/deer tags. I chatter with both I had met and asked them about the tags. Both mentioned the that the tags they were allotted by IDFG would not support their business or families. So, they sold nonresident elk/deer hunts with a guaranteed tag.

Which is why the commission is having a hard time getting outfitters on board with a draw.

 

[idelkslayer]

A lot of them are hunters. The number of resident hunters has increased greatly in recent years.

There is often a difference between what one wants and what should be. I personally would prefer that resident OTC mule deer remain as is, but the herds cannot withstand it.

Nope. The number of resident deer hunters has been declining for a while. Especially mule deer hunters. It turns out that hunter numbers seem to self regulate in an OTC general season system when deer populations decline. Many people aren't willing to put in the effort if deer are not very abundant. So they stay home and wait until their more dedicated friends relay back that there are a lot of deer, then they dust off that old rifle and shoot a paper plate to confirm zero and go hunting.

Here is a quick run down of the last 10 years of mule deer hunter numbers.
2014 - 108,133
2015 - 114,926 (deer populations are at a 30 year high from 2015-2017, a lot of hunters taking advantage)
2016 - 96,728
2017 - 98,583 (big winter kill after this year but it takes a year for people to figure it out)
2018 - 95,489
2019 - 81,651 (after hunting 2018 and seeing the reduced deer herds, over 10,000 hunters didn't try in 2019)
2020 - 88,603 (covid bump)
2021 - 79,825 (poor winter survival, covid hunters found out it is not as easy as PETA makes it sound.)
2022 - 79,516
2023 - 73,316
So where are all of the new resident hunters? I see a 30% reduction over the last 10 years. ~35,000 fewer hunters, and we know that the NR quota has been selling out every year since 2018 so the reduction had to be in resident hunter numbers.

Just a FYI. for the last 3 years I have waited in line with Idaho outfitters to buy tags, they were there to buy additional nonresident elk/deer tags. I chatter with both I had met and asked them about the tags. Both mentioned the that the tags they were allotted by IDFG would not support their business or families. So, they sold nonresident elk/deer hunts with a guaranteed tag.

And yet, every August there are a lot of outfitter tags that go on sale to the general public because they didn't sell out to clients.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Nope. The number of resident deer hunters has been declining for a while. Especially mule deer hunters. It turns out that hunter numbers seem to self regulate in an OTC general season system when deer populations decline. Many people aren't willing to put in the effort if deer are not very abundant. So they stay home and wait until their more dedicated friends relay back that there are a lot of deer, then they dust off that old rifle and shoot a paper plate to confirm zero and go hunting.

Here is a quick run down of the last 10 years of mule deer hunter numbers.
2014 - 108,133
2015 - 114,926 (deer populations are at a 30 year high from 2015-2017, a lot of hunters taking advantage)
2016 - 96,728
2017 - 98,583 (big winter kill after this year but it takes a year for people to figure it out)
2018 - 95,489
2019 - 81,651 (after hunting 2018 and seeing the reduced deer herds, over 10,000 hunters didn't try in 2019)
2020 - 88,603 (covid bump)
2021 - 79,825 (poor winter survival, covid hunters found out it is not as easy as PETA makes it sound.)
2022 - 79,516
2023 - 73,316
So where are all of the new resident hunters? I see a 30% reduction over the last 10 years. ~35,000 fewer hunters, and we know that the NR quota has been selling out every year since 2018 so the reduction had to be in resident hunter numbers.

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing. Obviously controlled hunts are included. Where can I find that data you have? Is it based on the numbers from harvest reports? I believe those will count multiple hunters if a hunter hunted multiple units.

Years 2015 and 2016 had very high harvest, over 35k. I am curious how the Idaho resident population compares 2015-16 to the previous harvest boom.

Here are some Resident general regular deer tag sales numbers. Notice that years 2007 and 2019 are essentially at the same value. I cannot find a Director's report to the Commission that is more recent than 2020.

 

[sasquatch]

You’d swear hunting outfitters are giant economic contributors with the power they hold


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[idelkslayer]

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing. Obviously controlled hunts are included. Where can I find that data you have? Is it based on the numbers from harvest reports? I believe those will count multiple hunters if a hunter hunted multiple units.

Years 2015 and 2016 had very high harvest, over 35k. I am curious how the Idaho resident population compares 2015-16 to the previous harvest boom.

Here are some Resident general regular deer tag sales numbers. Notice that years 2007 and 2019 are essentially at the same value. I cannot find a Director's report to the Commission that is more recent than 2020.

A while ago I dove into management reports and compiled a spreadsheet going back to the 1950's. Admittedly, I did not do a good job of organizing it and citing the source documents so there are some columns that I cannot remember exactly what I was tallying up or which report I pulled info from. I might take some time and clean it up so I can better cite the source info in the future. Also for the last several years, going back to at least 2014 I think, IDFG has published an article similar to this one where they list mule deer, elk and whitetail harvest results.

Hunter harvest stats show drop in elk and mule deer harvest, bump in whitetails in 2023

Ironically, it may have been the opposite weather that contributed to the lowest elk harvest since 2013. Warm fall weather with little precipitation often creates poor hunting conditions, but weather or not, the statewide elk harvest dropped nearly 2,400 animals compared to the prior year. But...

idfg.idaho.gov

I have entered the values given in these articles for the most recent years. Sometimes they don't listed the total number of hunters so I calculate it from the total harvest and overall success rate so that it includes general and controlled hunt seasons.

 

[Idaboy]

You’d swear hunting outfitters are giant economic contributors with the power they hold


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But they pay lobbiest A LOT....hunters and guide association has major influence/presure on commission

 

[willfrye027]

Nope. The number of resident deer hunters has been declining for a while. Especially mule deer hunters. It turns out that hunter numbers seem to self regulate in an OTC general season system when deer populations decline. Many people aren't willing to put in the effort if deer are not very abundant. So they stay home and wait until their more dedicated friends relay back that there are a lot of deer, then they dust off that old rifle and shoot a paper plate to confirm zero and go hunting.

Here is a quick run down of the last 10 years of mule deer hunter numbers.
2014 - 108,133
2015 - 114,926 (deer populations are at a 30 year high from 2015-2017, a lot of hunters taking advantage)
2016 - 96,728
2017 - 98,583 (big winter kill after this year but it takes a year for people to figure it out)
2018 - 95,489
2019 - 81,651 (after hunting 2018 and seeing the reduced deer herds, over 10,000 hunters didn't try in 2019)
2020 - 88,603 (covid bump)
2021 - 79,825 (poor winter survival, covid hunters found out it is not as easy as PETA makes it sound.)
2022 - 79,516
2023 - 73,316
So where are all of the new resident hunters? I see a 30% reduction over the last 10 years. ~35,000 fewer hunters, and we know that the NR quota has been selling out every year since 2018 so the reduction had to be in resident hunter numbers.

And yet, every August there are a lot of outfitter tags that go on sale to the general public because they didn't sell out to clients.

Way to debunk the number 1 excuse for why someone didn’t kill their big buck from the road this year

 

[WRO]

Just a FYI. for the last 3 years I have waited in line with Idaho outfitters to buy tags, they were there to buy additional nonresident elk/deer tags. I chatter with both I had met and asked them about the tags. Both mentioned the that the tags they were allotted by IDFG would not support their business or families. So, they sold nonresident elk/deer hunts with a guaranteed tag.

Horse shit, there’s outfitters blowing out tags every July trying to get rid of them instead of giving them back.

They get every tag they can from the general pool first then use their outfitter tags.


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[Fullfan]

Horse shit, there’s outfitters blowing out tags every July trying to get rid of them instead of giving them back.

They get every tag they can from the general pool first then use their outfitter tags.


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You are saying I'm lying??

 

[WRO]

You are saying I'm lying??

I’m telling you that I get offered outfitter tags every year for the capped zone I hunt for me and my nr buddies for no cost, I’ve taken them a few times to help an outfitter.

It’s pretty easy to get outfitter tags for nrs in July if you know the right people.


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[ez_willie]

I’m telling you that I get offered outfitter tags every year for the capped zone I hunt for me and my nr buddies for no cost, I’ve taken them a few times to help an outfitter.

It’s pretty easy to get outfitter tags for nrs in July if you know the right people.


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How does this exactly help the outfitter when it’s no cost to you?

 

[WRO]

How does this exactly help the outfitter when it’s no cost to you?

Because if they don’t place them all, they run the risk of losing them going forward.


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[PredatoronthePrairie]

Because if they don’t place them all, they run the risk of losing them going forward.


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Sounds like classic gov spending that has gotten us into this economic mess.

If you don't spend it, you lose. Better find something quickly to blow these taxpayers dollars on.

 

[dreamingbig]

Outfitter tags are from a different pool of tags. You're reading too much into it

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I will point out that the outfitters asked for more tags from the nonresident pool during this process. They were very active on the task force.


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[dreamingbig]

I have a feeling the ones who are complaining the loudest about in person sales don't have many friends

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My contention is with the tag mules and vendors where the outfitters are buying up the tags and thus squeezing out the DIY nonresident. They still get their outfitter allocation but use the in person sales process to significantly increase that.


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[WRO]

I will point out that the outfitters asked for more tags from the nonresident pool during this process. They were very active on the task force.


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And they’ll still buy every tag they can for their early booking clients. The whole system is a joke.

 

[Hall]

I believe that will be good for the state.

 

[IdahoBeav]

My contention is with the tag mules and vendors where the outfitters are buying up the tags and thus squeezing out the DIY nonresident.

Most of the "tag mules" are buying for DIY nonresidents.