Idaho Grizzly range?

[MTtrout]

The fact that they will end you for just looking in their general direction is enough for me to want them all dead. They are far far more aggressive than black bears.

OK. So fear category?

 

[CorbLand]

OK. So fear category?

Sure.

 

[wowzers]

All that purple is soon to be orange.

They are taking comments as we speak.

Bitterroot EIS Updates | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

www.fws.gov

 

[Soj51hopeful]

They are taking comments as we speak.

Bitterroot EIS Updates | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

www.fws.gov

Just submitted my comment.

 

[mtwarden]

If regulations, federal protections didn’t apply and states could manage them. What is the issue with grizzly bears? Fear, fawn/calf mortality, risk of interactions, hatred, or the fact they our still on the ESA?

This is a serious question. I’m just as frustrated grizzlies are still listed. I do like them though

I'd have no problems with grizzlies if the state managed them. That would mean insuring a healthy, viable population, but also one that would support a hunting season.

The sadness is that most folks that refuse to acknowledge that grizzlies have fully recovered (in Montana anyways) are doing so solely because they don't want grizzlies hunted, ditto on wolves.

The ESA was important and successful legislation, but sadly its' become a tool for anti hunting groups. Instead of celebrating success stories, they would instead threaten this legislation by consistently and constantly throwing up roadblocks when a species has reached all the thresholds mandated and should be removed.

 

[MTtrout]

@mtwarden, well said and I fully agree with your comment. The so called environmental groups sure have made a mess of the ESA and sound wildlife management.

I’d heard first hand stories from a FS friend about the lawyers that make their living from suing the FS. They have no moral compass, just throwing darts.

 

[CorbLand]

@mtwarden, well said and I fully agree with your comment. The so called environmental groups sure have made a mess of the ESA and sound wildlife management.

I’d heard first hand stories from a FS friend about the lawyers that make their living from suing the FS. They have no moral compass, just throwing darts.

I cant remember what the law is called but there is one where if you sue the Government and win, the Government pays for your costs. It was meant to stop the Government from litigating people to death. Unfortunately, it has flipped to being a money maker for many. Throw 20 lawsuits at them and hope one or two stick.

I'd have no problems with grizzlies if the state managed them. That would mean insuring a healthy, viable population, but also one that would support a hunting season.

The sadness is that most folks that refuse to acknowledge that grizzlies have fully recovered (in Montana anyways) are doing so solely because they don't want grizzlies hunted, ditto on wolves.

The ESA was important and successful legislation, but sadly its' become a tool for anti hunting groups. Instead of celebrating success stories, they would instead threaten this legislation by consistently and constantly throwing up roadblocks when a species has reached all the thresholds mandated and should be removed.

The biggest failure of the ESA is that success is viewed as getting animals on it, not off it.

 

[Customweld]

I cant remember what the law is called but there is one where if you sue the Government and win, the Government pays for your costs. It was meant to stop the Government from litigating people to death. Unfortunately, it has flipped to being a money maker for many. Throw 20 lawsuits at them and hope one or two stick.

The biggest failure of the ESA is that success is viewed as getting animals on it, not off it.

Indeed. Getting things off the list eliminates powerful leverage and money making campaigns.

 

[Article 4]

The northern part of the map, above Lewiston is correct. The area near Salmon 100% has G Bears, as well as some of the area outside McCall. 1st hand knowledge
My sense would be NE of Idaho falls in that range would have them too.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I cant remember what the law is called but there is one where if you sue the Government and win, the Government pays for your costs. It was meant to stop the Government from litigating people to death. Unfortunately, it has flipped to being a money maker for many. Throw 20 lawsuits at them and hope one or two stick.

The biggest failure of the ESA is that success is viewed as getting animals on it, not off it.

EAJ allows for the compensation of legal expenses.

Unfortunately it is easy to sue on technicalities and procedural issues, even if the law and agency policy were 99% followed.

 

[Customweld]

The northern part of the map, above Lewiston is correct. The area near Salmon 100% has G Bears, as well as some of the area outside McCall. 1st hand knowledge
My sense would be NE of Idaho falls in that range would have them too.

There is a lot of no man's land outside of McCall, I wouldn't be a bit surprised for one to turn up there.

 

[mtwarden]

The biggest failure of the ESA is that success is viewed as getting animals on it, not off it.

By some that's for sure!

If the ESA were to ever go away, they'd have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[CorbLand]

EAJ allows for the compensation of legal expenses.

Unfortunately it is easy to sue on technicalities and procedural issues, even if the law and agency policy were 99% followed.

The best way I heard it explained is a group will sue saying "you didnt follow this procedure and you didnt dot the "I" on page 4." A hundred thousand dollars later, it is proven that they did follow the procedure but did in fact forget to dot the "I" on page 4. Government lose, group wins and Government pays them.

 

[Jason Snyder]

The best way I heard it explained is a group will sue saying "you didnt follow this procedure and you didnt dot the "I" on page 4." A hundred thousand dollars later, it is proven that they did follow the procedure but did in fact forget to dot the "I" on page 4. Government lose, group wins and Government pays them.

Yes and no. It’s not as black and white as that but the EAJ is certainly abused by NGOs with a lot of money in the coffers.

I know dotting the “I” is hyperbole. However, when the lawsuit is filed a judge does not have to accept the lawsuit. The plaintiff has to show they had standing and suffered injury from the issue.

So for instance, if the notification for public comment was not followed the lawsuit would be granted because the public did not had adequate notice and opportunity to submit public comment.

 

[mt terry d]

If the ESA were to ever go away, they'd have no one to blame but themselves.

Say the ESA was gone today.
What would be the result?

 

[mtwarden]

Say the ESA was gone today.
What would be the result?

Good question. Clearly if it was gone more species would fall under state jurisdiction. There are still federal statues that supersede state laws, but mostly in the birds and fish realm.

Personally I think it's a good law and has undoubtedly saved many species from the brink, BUT I feel it's being abused, especially with large and fuzzy carnivores.

It seems it's relatively easy to get a species on the list; but regardless of state's efforts to fulfill the USFWS mandates to get a species off the list, it seems like a very long and uphill battle. I don't fault the USFWS, they have for the most part lined out clear goals that need to be met to remove a species. Unfortunately law suits continue to force moving and changing these goals in what seems a never ending battle.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

They are taking comments as we speak.

Bitterroot EIS Updates | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

www.fws.gov

Thanks for this, just submitted a comment.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

There is a lot of no man's land outside of McCall, I wouldn't be a bit surprised for one to turn up there.

Inevitable, every time I hike the mf area, I can imagine a scenario where I run into a roaming young grizz.

Will be interesting to see how they’ll affect the black bear population when they settle in, at the moment there’s a crazy amount of black bears in the mf drainages.

 

[idelkslayer]

If I believed every outfitter, cowboy, or hunter I talked to the entire map of the state should be purple. I am no longer surprised, but I continue to be disappointed by the number of lifelong outdoorsman that can't tell a grizzly apart from a black bear.

I have no doubt that grizzly bears are present in many areas outside of their documented range, however I take undocumented sightings with a great deal of skepticism.

I don't think any of the purple areas have had documented females denning with young which is a major criteria for establishing the existence of a resident population. On second thought there was a female with young that denned in Idaho unit 4 years ago but she moved into Montana the following year.

There was a gps-collared young male in 2019 that travelled from NW Montana south to unit 17 in Idaho, and then all the way back to NW Montana in the span of 3 months. Another grizzly was captured on trail cameras in unit 14 that same year, genetic testing showed that bear had also originated from the Selkirks/Cabinet region near the canadian border. Fresh tracks were seen again the following spring. I haven't heard anything more about that bear since.

F&G officer spots grizzly bear tracks about 7 miles south of Grangeville in April

Fresh grizzly bear tracks were confirmed by a Fish and Game conservation officer in the Fish Creek Meadows winter recreation area about 7 miles south of Grangeville on April 18, 2020. It is uncertain if the grizzly is still be in the area or has moved on.

idfg.idaho.gov

Selway-Bitterroot Grizzly Returns To Cabinet-Yaak Ecosystem

A young male grizzly that made his way into the national Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness near the Montana-Idaho border this year has made the trek back to…

www.mtpr.org

A member of this forum posted a photo of a grizzly bear that he said was on one of his black bear bait sites in the lochsa region in 2016.

I believe that for every one of these documented sightings there are several more that are going unnoticed. I wonder if the bears that are out there have established home ranges or if they are transients looking for other bears where there are none or few to be found.

 

[Customweld]

If I believed every outfitter, cowboy, or hunter I talked to the entire map of the state should be purple. I am no longer surprised, but I continue to be disappointed by the number of lifelong outdoorsman that can't tell a grizzly apart from a black bear.

I have no doubt that grizzly bears are present in many areas outside of their documented range, however I take undocumented sightings with a great deal of skepticism.

I don't think any of the purple areas have had documented females denning with young which is a major criteria for establishing the existence of a resident population. On second thought there was a female with young that denned in Idaho unit 4 years ago but she moved into Montana the following year.

There was a gps-collared young male in 2019 that travelled from NW Montana south to unit 17 in Idaho, and then all the way back to NW Montana in the span of 3 months. Another grizzly was captured on trail cameras in unit 14 that same year, genetic testing showed that bear had also originated from the Selkirks/Cabinet region near the canadian border. Fresh tracks were seen again the following spring. I haven't heard anything more about that bear since.

F&G officer spots grizzly bear tracks about 7 miles south of Grangeville in April

Fresh grizzly bear tracks were confirmed by a Fish and Game conservation officer in the Fish Creek Meadows winter recreation area about 7 miles south of Grangeville on April 18, 2020. It is uncertain if the grizzly is still be in the area or has moved on.

idfg.idaho.gov

Selway-Bitterroot Grizzly Returns To Cabinet-Yaak Ecosystem

A young male grizzly that made his way into the national Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness near the Montana-Idaho border this year has made the trek back to…

www.mtpr.org

A member of this forum posted a photo of a grizzly bear that he said was on one of his black bear bait sites in the lochsa region in 2016.

I believe that for every one of these documented sightings there are several more that are going unnoticed. I wonder if the bears that are out there have established home ranges or if they are transients looking for other bears where there are none or few to be found.

One would have to think they are transients. If the Grizz that was around Grangeville had set up shop, you'd think there would be more sightings since then. There is a ton of country between Stanley , McCall and CDA, that probably hasn't seen humans for a handful of years. Could there be Grizz living there? Possibly, but not in any significant population numbers. Is there Grizz that occasionally pass through? Absolutely.