Idaho Deer/Elk/Antelope Draw Results

[Broomd]

Not to resurrect the "rigged draw" idea, but here it is. An acquaintance of mine has worked for, and contracted to, the IDF&G for about 10 years. The first year he lived here he drew a very low draw odd moose tag. Beginners luck? 3 years later he draws a goat tag. The next year he drew a late buck hunt with 10 tags. 2 years after that he drew a sheep tag. I know people that have been putting on each of those hunts, respectively, for 30 years or more and not drawn. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but...... No way to ever prove anything.

Hard to say, but sounds like some good luck.

Between 2003 and 2013, my friend drew all four OIL tags. I did the same thing between 2009 and 2018, and two of those years I put in for deer and elk tags (didn't draw those.)

It seems odd that tags for sheep, moose and mountain goat would be easier to draw than tags that are also available otc (deer, elk, PH?) but it is the case. Gotta love Idaho's system overall, 2018's bugs notwithstanding.

The neighboring states' points systems are a scam and it is why so many NR end up here.

 

[brandon.andersen]

Hard to say, but sounds like some good luck.

Between 2003 and 2013, my friend drew all four OIL tags. I did the same thing between 2009 and 2018, and two of those years I put in for deer and elk tags (didn't draw those.)

It seems odd that tags for sheep, moose and mountain goat would be easier to draw than tags that are also available otc (deer, elk, PH?) but it is the case. Gotta love Idaho's system overall, 2018's bugs notwithstanding.

The neighboring states' points systems are a scam and it is why so many NR end up here.

If you look at the draw odds for some of the coveted deer elk and pronghorn tags, it is no wonder it is easier to draw the OIL tags. The OIL tags are a commitment made upfront.

 

[jmcd22]

Hard to say, but sounds like some good luck.

Between 2003 and 2013, my friend drew all four OIL tags. I did the same thing between 2009 and 2018, and two of those years I put in for deer and elk tags (didn't draw those.)

It seems odd that tags for sheep, moose and mountain goat would be easier to draw than tags that are also available otc (deer, elk, PH?) but it is the case. Gotta love Idaho's system overall, 2018's bugs notwithstanding.

The neighboring states' points systems are a scam and it is why so many NR end up here.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself and family members, but we won't put in for moose, mountain goat or sheep because it disqualifies you from deer, elk and pronghorn draws but I would be willing to bet that a lot of other hunters have the same feeling as I do...which might explain why they are easier to draw.

 

[Mtnboy]

I can't speak for anyone other than myself and family members, but we won't put in for moose, mountain goat or sheep because it disqualifies you from deer, elk and pronghorn draws but I would be willing to bet that a lot of other hunters have the same feeling as I do...which might explain why they are easier to draw.

Yep, I love that about our system.

I wish they'd raise the app fee to $20 and only allow 1 app in the deer, elk, antelope draw too. Draw odds across the board would increase.

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[CorbLand]

I grew up in Da Ho but moved to Utah. Idahos system may not be perfect but be thankful for what you do have and dont throw it all away for a short time of increased draw odds.

 

[idahohikker]

Mtnboy, I agree. I think the system is pretty good as is, though.

 

[jmcd22]

Yep, I love that about our system.

I wish they'd raise the app fee to $20 and only allow 1 app in the deer, elk, antelope draw too. Draw odds across the board would increase.

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Yeah, I like that about our system too other than the fact that I really want to put in for moose and sheep...just not at the expense of elk.

I can see how that would work for increasing draw odds but that would suck haha! I've never drawn more than one species in a year but I always hold on to the hope that I can get lucky!

 

[Broomd]

I can't speak for anyone other than myself and family members, but we won't put in for moose, mountain goat or sheep because it disqualifies you from deer, elk and pronghorn draws but I would be willing to bet that a lot of other hunters have the same feeling as I do...which might explain why they are easier to draw.

No question, and it is one of the reasons that ID has such a fantastic system.
We hunt whitetail and elk otc, and while the 330 class bulls aren't thick around here, a decent bull is always a possiblity. And qualtiy whitetail are always present.

One would think other states would learn, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

Agree...July 10th is the deadline and they have flexibility to that date. They left enough leeway to send stone chiseled plates to everyone’s cave.

It is frustrating to think that with today’s technology that it takes 30+ days to assign an application with a random number and simulate a draw. Even if the results come out “on time” I think we deserve better than this.

In 2017 there were 65,312 1st choice deer applications, @ $6.25 a pop that is $408,200. For just one species! Pretty sure I could find a tech guy that could get that excel sheet going and still chisel out the notifications and snail mail results for all species in less than 30+ days for $408k. Not a bad salary for a months worth of work.

The cynic in me... this is a power play by our elected civil servants. Force inadequacy on F&G to question the need of a true draw and sway the public to accept points/landowner tag system next go around.

The optimist in me....First times are always rough and going forward the new vendor will improve the process and results will be out in a jiffy.

If the cynic in me is right, I want to know who was leading this legislation and I want to direct my frustration towards them, not F&G.


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Congrats to all those who drew...Feels like I am destined to hone my skills on OTC tags and donate my application fees in perpetuity.

Spoke at length with Idaho Fish and Game Administration Bureau Chief, Michael Pearson, on the controlled draw:

First, some very high level logistics on the "legacy" draw system:

For the last 25 years the controlled draw system used is hosted at the State Controller's Office, and uses a process that is certified random by BSU.

(1) Fish and Game loads the controlled hunt applications into the controlled hunt draw system, which is hosted by the State Controller’s office on its computer mainframe.
(2) The system then assigns a random six-digit number to each controlled hunt application.
(3) Next, the system scrambles the sequence of each application number, and then scrambles the order in which each number appears on the list.
(4) Seed numbers are then drawn out of a hat and recorded (note: application numbers are not known when the “seed” numbers are randomly determined) Apparently the public can participant in this process....30-06 brass is distributed with engraved seed numbers and then drawn out of a hat. No idea this existed.
(5) The drawing takes place on a computer system hosted by the State Controller’s office.

Second, the legislative involvement:

Three years ago two commissioners drew sheep tags and this lead to public concern on the integrity of the system. A Senate Bill (SB 1344) was sponsored by Bert Brackett and signed by the Governor on 7.1.16.

SENATE BILL 1344 – Idaho State Legislature

Third, changing of the license vendor and the logistics of 2018.

Fish and Game was using the same license vendor since 2006 and they created out to RFP in 2016. The passing of SB1344 led them to add the controlled hunt process to the RFP as an alternative to paying a separate 3rd party vendor to do that portion. The cost he gave me for 3rd party was $400/hr to run a system that was verified random. The RFP was completed in late 2017 and JMT Technologies was awarded the contract. The "go live" for JMT was in March 2018.

Complications of the new licensing system F&G had to prioritize certain functionality and because of this elected to use the legacy system for 2018. Priority went to issuing licenses/access depredation fee/Price Lock functionality. The difficulties of on-boarding the new vendor along with the draw was the main reason for the delay this year. JMT is hoping that improvements can be made as the technology is completely rolled out to meet the demand in the future.

Here are some notes I took on what creates the biggest delays in the process....

1. Paper applications take 5-7 business days to process once received. They have the highest probability for error as applicants make various mistakes on the submission (i.e. list hunt numbers that are invalid, wrong license number license, etc.) so each application has to be carefully reviewed.
2. Download data out of the system
3. Folks trying to game the system. F&G does have some screening to ensure folks are playing by the rules, but they have a process to double check. The biggest infractions: Adults applying for youth hunts, submitting multiple applications (On-line and paper), Applying to both Trophy and Big Game species, not waiting the 1-year after drawing an antlered tag, etc. Any of these infractions cause your application to be invalid.

Couple other things I thought were interesting:

- There was 175k applications for Big Game Controlled hunts in 2018..... @ 6.25 a pop that is $1,093,750
- 3% of applications are sent in via paper
- 20% of the applications are submitted the day of the deadline.
- The controlled hunt deadline is the second busiest day for F&G license vendor. October 10th is the busiest.

My opinion:
Until the new vendor can prove to me that handle the high demand on the deadline dates, no system wide shutdowns, I think we will struggle with timely results. If the commission passes the non-paper applications that will remove what sounds like the biggest constraint for timeliness. Will monitor those two developments, but I will plan on submitting applications well before deadline and plan on having results out closer to what is stated in the regulations.

Now....On to scouting.

 

[Broomd]

Jl. thanks for that excellent psoting....