Idaho Cull

[Sccritterkiller]

Anybody have any more local info on this? Talked to a buddy that lives there and sounds like folks are not happy. He said it was all over social media but I dont do any of that. I listened to the entire interview and still didn't make sense to me but I am not local. Any additional info would be appreciated.

Idaho Fish & Game Killed More Than 200 Elk Near Shoshone

This wasn’t a daytime hunt. The elk had started foraging on private land north of Shoshone. The animals had been chased away during daylight hours.

newsradio1310.com

 

[theleo91386]

Farmers have been griping for a few years about elk wintering on their land. I'm not sure if it's a population thing, an elk adapting to wolves being present thing, or what. Lots of cows get shot each year there with depredation tags, but apparently that's not enough. They say they're not trying to wage a war on elk, but since they issued 5,000 OTC cow tags between the 2 zones these elk came out of, I'm starting to question their sincerity on that.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Its always unfortunate that hunters can't or weren't able to take these animals but 200 is a small fraction of what state game agencies in the west remove lethally for farmers and ranchers.
Not to mention the tens of thousands paid in damages or materials and wages to fence stack yards etc.
Yet good luck being granted permission to hunt on most of these lands.
I also want to point out that there are also amazing ranchers etc that are a benefit to wildlife.

 

[MtnOyster]

Shame they don’t let hunters take those animals or allow permits for residents to take em.

What really makes you sick is you nock on a ranchers door, introduce yourself, ask politely if you can take one of those elk bow/rifle and they tell you no or want a ridiculous amount of $ to do it then go cry to fish and game that the elk are ruining their land and there’s too many.............

 

[idahohikker]

It’s ridiculous but Idaho law is written in such a way that (a) farmers are compensated for crop losses liberally and (b) they don’t have to take any significant affirmative actions to prevent the damage, including allowing hunting. Take this up with your legislator if you want the change. It would be awesome but I won’t hold my breath.

Also, stepping back. fish and game does a pretty good job of managing competing interests and 200 elk is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Beendare]

Its one of those things the Supposed "Experts" didn't factor in when they reintroduced wolves.....the fact that they would change Elk behavior and want wide open flats to insulate them from wolves. They herd up more too.

So now we have more intrusion of huge herds of elk on farm ground and they are much more exposed to winter elements vs them finding microclimates to protect them in harsh winter weather. This makes it tougher for their calves to survive.

I've seen it first hand in Idaho wolf country. ....less elk in their usual haunts...and more out in the flats.


....

 

[FLAK]

And the ranchers/landowners want to charge an exhorbitant tag fee for a hunter to come and shoot ONE Elk. Oh, the Irony.
Guess who gets screwed in this little deal??

 

[87TT]

It's nothing new but just another reason we don't need wolves. The elk are just trying to survive. The state has been paying out more and more every year.. If you were a farmer, would you want hunters in your fields compounding the damage being done by elk? They are not just talking about them eating the crops but trampling them. Hunters would be doing almost as much damage chasing and recovering the elk.. In the case in the article, the elk were coming in at night. Last I checked, you aren't allowed to hunt at night and I don't think it would be safe. Last year one farmer submitted and was paid a little over a million dollars for damage. That was after several attempts tp solve the problem including letting private hunters and government hunters take 80 elk from his farm.

 

[alexanderg23]

It’s odd. The wolves killed all the elk, so the F&G has to kill the rest? Maybe wolves and are farmers teaming up...

 

[BuzzH]

It’s ridiculous but Idaho law is written in such a way that (a) farmers are compensated for crop losses liberally and (b) they don’t have to take any significant affirmative actions to prevent the damage, including allowing hunting. Take this up with your legislator if you want the change. It would be awesome but I won’t hold my breath.

Also, stepping back. fish and game does a pretty good job of managing competing interests and 200 elk is a drop in the bucket.

Unless wolves eat 200 elk, then its a catastrophic.

 

[idahohikker]

Unless wolves eat 200 elk, then its a catastrophic.

Buzz, you don't know anything about Idaho wolf issues. Just stop. Wyoming isn't the same and has not been affected similarly. You've said with your own words that you saw hardly anything in the Frank and have little interest to hunt there. That's ground zero in Idaho for wolves.

I'm not looking for a back and forth. There's my one comment on this thread to you.

 

[BuzzH]

Its one of those things the Supposed "Experts" didn't factor in when they reintroduced wolves.....the fact that they would change Elk behavior and want wide open flats to insulate them from wolves. They herd up more too.

So now we have more intrusion of huge herds of elk on farm ground and they are much more exposed to winter elements vs them finding microclimates to protect them in harsh winter weather. This makes it tougher for their calves to survive.

I've seen it first hand in Idaho wolf country. ....less elk in their usual haunts...and more out in the flats.


....

Right, per usual its all wolves, never mind that the amount of pressure put on elk for longer periods of time has been increasing incrementally over the years (think about how many more people archery hunt elk now, than say 1985)...that has nothing to do with it.

The fact is many elk that are found on private are intentionally harbored for hunting leases, outfitted clients, and even private owners (usually, but not always absentee) that just like elk around.

The good old days of knocking on a door for hunting access are pretty much over. Many times, you may have a good guy around that will allow access. These guys also usually suffer from surrounding neighbors that harbor elk. The only option the guys that allow access have is to either seek compensation from the GF agencies or have the GF kill off some of the elk.

Claiming wolves are causing this is pure crap...

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, you don't know anything about Idaho wolf issues. Just stop. Wyoming isn't the same and has not been affected similarly. You've said with your own words that you saw hardly anything in the Frank and have little interest to hunt there. That's ground zero in Idaho for wolves.

I'm not looking for a back and forth. There's my one comment on this thread to you.

My last comment to you on this thread...everybody else is supposed to fix your problem, you said it yourself.

Take this up with your legislator if you want the change. It would be awesome but I won’t hold my breath.

What legislator have you contacted to get this change rolling? Can you please post the draft of the legislation you've proposed? Have a legislator that's willing to pack your proposal? What interim committee meeting have you brought this topic up in?

All talk....you wont take the reins to change anything...that's somebody else's job I guess.

 

[87TT]

Let's just think about it for a minute. What has changed in say the last say 20 years. 1) more hunter pressure 2) wolves introduced and allowed to over populate.
There has always been predators like lion and bear so no change.
There has always been farmers and ranchers so no change.
Take number one, there are definitely more hunters but this problem in the article (the purpose of this thread) is occurring now. There is no regular hunting season going on to push the elk down onto the private farm land. There are wolves and is seems logical that the elk are trying to survive and get away from them. If the wolves weren't there, the elk would tend to stay in the forest and public to escape the harassment from farmers and the DFG. As it is they are taking the path of least pressure. You can follow the trail anyway you want but the evidence keeps leading back to wolves as a problem (maybe not the only problem) and the most likely one.

 

[BuzzH]

Let's just think about it for a minute. What has changed in say the last say 20 years. 1) more hunter pressure 2) wolves introduced and allowed to over populate.
There has always been predators like lion and bear so no change.
There has always been farmers and ranchers so no change.
Take number one, there are definitely more hunters but this problem in the article (the purpose of this thread) is occurring now. There is no regular hunting season going on to push the elk down onto the private farm land. There are wolves and is seems logical that the elk are trying to survive and get away from them. If the wolves weren't there, the elk would tend to stay in the forest and public to escape the harassment from farmers and the DFG. As it is they are taking the path of least pressure. You can follow the trail anyway you want but the evidence keeps leading back to wolves as a problem (maybe not the only problem) and the most likely one.

That's a huge stretch and I don't agree with much of what you posted.

Nothing has changed in that area for 20 years? Really? Take a look at the population of twin falls, Idaho Falls, Boise. In 2000 the population of Boise was 195,000...2019 was 231,000. Ada county in 2000 300,000 in 2019, 457,000.

I have worked practically all of the country from McCall to Salmon Idaho and everything to the South for the last dozen years. The amount of traffic/recreation you get in the National Forest in areas like Atlanta, Big Smokey, etc. etc. is border line absurd. Those places are a playground for Boise, Twin, I.F., Blackfoot, etc. etc. Tons of ATV trails, tons of Motorcycle trails, fishing, and hunting.

Ever been in that country during hunting season? I have, lets just say, no shortage of people hunting it.

As to farming, yeah, there has been...but have you looked at the number of center pivots now, compared to 20 years ago? Stroll through some historic aerial photography, those lucrative USDA programs have paid for a lot of irrigation projects over the years, including in the areas around Fairfield, Shoshone, IF, TF, etc. For the record, irrigated land with all sorts of crops, is much more attractive to elk than native dryland grasses.

The culling is not "happening now"...read the article pay attention to the first 2 lines: It happened over a period of several months"

If its all wolves, then why do places that have little, if any wolf pressure have the same problems in CO, WY, MT, ID etc. with harboring elk?

What do you blame the exact same problem on in areas like SE Wyoming where there are very few wolves? Places where elk harboring was taking place long before reintroduction?

I'll grant you that wolves, lions, etc. may be partially responsible, but to systematically ignore the other things, that are undoubtedly the biggest causes of elk harboring...well that's selective outrage and ax grinding 101.

 

[Big Ace]

Sad to see

 

[87TT]

That's a huge stretch and I don't agree with much of what you posted.

Nothing has changed in that area for 20 years? Really? Take a look at the population of twin falls, Idaho Falls, Boise. In 2000 the population of Boise was 195,000...2019 was 231,000. Ada county in 2000 300,000 in 2019, 457,000.

I have worked practically all of the country from McCall to Salmon Idaho and everything to the South for the last dozen years. The amount of traffic/recreation you get in the National Forest in areas like Atlanta, Big Smokey, etc. etc. is border line absurd. Those places are a playground for Boise, Twin, I.F., Blackfoot, etc. etc. Tons of ATV trails, tons of Motorcycle trails, fishing, and hunting.

Ever been in that country during hunting season? I have, lets just say, no shortage of people hunting it.

As to farming, yeah, there has been...but have you looked at the number of center pivots now, compared to 20 years ago? Stroll through some historic aerial photography, those lucrative USDA programs have paid for a lot of irrigation projects over the years, including in the areas around Fairfield, Shoshone, IF, TF, etc. For the record, irrigated land with all sorts of crops, is much more attractive to elk than native dryland grasses.

The culling is not "happening now"...read the article pay attention to the first 2 lines: It happened over a period of several months"

If its all wolves, then why do places that have little, if any wolf pressure have the same problems in CO, WY, MT, ID etc. with harboring elk?

What do you blame the exact same problem on in areas like SE Wyoming where there are very few wolves? Places where elk harboring was taking place long before reintroduction?

I'll grant you that wolves, lions, etc. may be partially responsible, but to systematically ignore the other things, that are undoubtedly the biggest causes of elk harboring...well that's selective outrage and ax grinding 101.

You're right. Everyone else is wrong. The wolves in IDAHO are not to blame, it's us.

 

[exppi]

Not the best of outcomes. I can understand the farmers wanting to mitigate the damages though. I wonder how much impact the B tags had in the region this year to change some of the elk behavior.

 

[ICEMAN86]

maybe they should dart them and truck them to the panhandle.

 

[ndbuck09]

The optics of this are just terrible when you have people trying to hunt elk in areas and zones around the state that have reduced herd sizes, low recruitment, etc. and areas/zones with quite a lot of hunting pressure. Then you just out and out mow down 200 over 2 months? Sure the elk only hit the fields at night but there could have been a lot more creative way to deal with this with real Idahoans than letting f/g shooters do it. Wolves in Idaho aside, it's just bad. And the article quotes fish and game as saying it's a drop in the bucket??? Juxtapose that to the fact that they'll post a poaching story on the website concerned with who killed a single such and such animal somewhere...it just really gives a terrible view point on how they're doing their jobs.