I think "Wallop" is a thing

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To start this conversation, i'm no JVB or Spomer, but there is definitely something going on with bigger calibers that doesn't happen with smaller calibers. Full stop

I fully believe in the effectiveness of 223/5.56, 6mm, and 25 cal rounds. I used them and have taken deer with them and I continue to do it. Anecdotally though, I see waaay more destructiveness coming from 6.5mm+ calibers. This isn't just my annecdote either. Between myself and two friends we see over 100 deer killed every year(damage control permits). We pop deer out to 600yd. Even when using the "holy grail" 6mm bullets that are talked about here, we tend to see deer running upwards of 100yards and less meat blowout than deer dropped with the 6.5+ bullets. 6.5+ bullets tend to completely remove legs and generally are dropping deer like a light switch going from on to off. (these statements exclude head shots)

Wallop is a thing, but not in the way most understand it. Wallop is expressed in how a bullet sheds its energy. 2 identical weight and caliber bullets will wallop a deer differently based on construction type. Think 55g FMJ vs 55g V-MAX . The FMJ will likely pencil through and the Vmax will blow up with 5" of penetration. Now we can easy say bigger bullet at same velocity and same construction type is more energy downrange, thats physics. So, that said a 6mm bullet that doesn't exit and breaks into 5 pieces would in theory dump more energy than a 300 win mag monolith bullet(bullet tip barely expands to bullet diameter). I say "in theory" because we can only theorize 300 win energy imparted on target because bullet continued to fly and really only poked a 30 cal size hole.

I've drawn up a sweet graph on how we want our bullets to act and how JVB's bullets act.

The red line is obviously ideal right? Low energy energy at entry and after it penetrates it has a HUGE disruption causing damage and that energy and velocity will drop to zero as it approaches the backside of the target. We know this happens when there is no exit hole. I'm not saying that I consider it a bullet failure if the bullet exits.

Blue line might actually be a bit too generous because some people have found their monocore bullet in the offside hide, but the wound channel is basically same size as caliber of the bullet as opposed to multiple little wound channelsWallop Energy.jpg
 
I think it would be fair to say "larger caliber bullets of a similar design and impact velocity can possibly disperse bullet fragments wider/possibly sooner in the wound channel".

How much that really matters is a personal thing I guess. I don't think you'd be as likely to see damage like this picture with the 6s and 22s, but also who really needs this much?

125 Ballistic Tip at 3550 or 3600 from a 300 RUM, 80yd shot.
 

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Does the graph change with faster twist rates?
No. Graph is only applying the metric of Energies from point of entry as the bullet flies through the medium(target). I ain't no physics major so I don't know how know the impact of higher or lower centrifugal forces add or subtract from total energies
 
Use a big enough cartridge with certain bullets and you’ll see the extra wallop haha.
A guy from New Zealand had close drone footage hovering above a deer as he shot it with a 137gr hammer hunter at well over 4000fps out of a 375rum. The footage shows the deer actually being pushed back a few feet from the impact. But it took an extreme cartridge, bullet with a lot of frontal area, and high velocity combo to make it happen at close range. I think there is a notable difference when you use the really big cartridges like the 338Edge AI and 338AM i shot deer and pigs with, but these are extreme examples when comparing to something like a 6creed. Either way I’m over carrying 16lb hunting rifles with artillery like muzzle blast and recoil to hunt whitetail and the occasional elk. Been hunting with a 22calibers the past 2 years with great success.
 
I kinda miss the guys that used to claim the millions of big game animals killed each year with Fudd cartridges were a figment of our imagination. Maybe they just ignored me, but I miss them nonetheless. lol
Quote one single post on this entire forum that stated that.... ill wait

*chuckles*
 
Yes, this is what was lost in the "kill everything with a .223" (i got one by the way) convo. I like my bullets to exit. I just do. I think it makes for better blood trails, and I think that matters. that doesn't make the .223 less deadly, it just means it will often not meet a criteria that I HAVE. Medium construction bullets that expand and still fully penetrate do a lot of both. I prefer that. I like a good .243 interlock in 100 gr.
However, man do larger calibers destroy a lot of meat on a deer. It can be gruesome. This last year I swore I was done hitting whitetails with a 3006.
 
Yes, this is what was lost in the "kill everything with a .223" (i got one by the way) convo. I like my bullets to exit. I just do. I think it makes for better blood trails, and I think that matters. that doesn't make the .223 less deadly, it just means it will often not meet a criteria that I HAVE. Medium construction bullets that expand and still fully penetrate do a lot of both. I prefer that. I like a good .243 interlock in 100 gr.
However, man do larger calibers destroy a lot of meat on a deer. It can be gruesome. This last year I swore I was done hitting whitetails with a 3006.
I get what you're saying about exits and blood trails, but do you actually see much difference between a .243 100 gr Interlock and something like a .233 75 gr Gold Dot? Not saying you don't, but I have zero experience with the 100 Interlock, so just curious.
 
Problem is you left off two of the best made, best killing bullets of all time......Nosler accubond and partition. Throw in a Lapua Scenar and you're in business.
 
Love your graph, to add to the silliness here, you guys all remember the ballistic pendulum from freshman physics? Helpful in thinking about this.

Off the top of my head… if I were to come up with a wallop algorithm it would an integration of tissue disruption (2D) with respect to distance (that gets your 3D total tissue disruption).



Now that makes some assumptions that are not great on the edge cases:

-All tissue is the same

-A giant shallow hole/ divot isn’t equal to a tiny hole all the way though.



To correct for those, one could have a weighted factor for different types of tissue, i.e. heart tissue is ranked higher than other muscle tissue. Have some min thresholds for penetration and such as well.



I like the term “Applied Energy” for this. How much of the bullets energy is actually getting applied to destroying tissue.



If you wanted to see efficiency of sorts, divide the cumulative tissue damage number by the energy captured by the ballistic pendulum. That way you can see how a stouter round with a tough bullet compares to a more anemic round with a more destructive bullet.
 
To start this conversation, i'm no JVB or Spomer, but there is definitely something going on with bigger calibers that doesn't happen with smaller calibers. Full stop

I fully believe in the effectiveness of 223/5.56, 6mm, and 25 cal rounds. I used them and have taken deer with them and I continue to do it. Anecdotally though, I see waaay more destructiveness coming from 6.5mm+ calibers. This isn't just my annecdote either. Between myself and two friends we see over 100 deer killed every year(damage control permits). We pop deer out to 600yd. Even when using the "holy grail" 6mm bullets that are talked about here, we tend to see deer running upwards of 100yards and less meat blowout than deer dropped with the 6.5+ bullets. 6.5+ bullets tend to completely remove legs and generally are dropping deer like a light switch going from on to off. (these statements exclude head shots)

Wallop is a thing, but not in the way most understand it. Wallop is expressed in how a bullet sheds its energy. 2 identical weight and caliber bullets will wallop a deer differently based on construction type. Think 55g FMJ vs 55g V-MAX . The FMJ will likely pencil through and the Vmax will blow up with 5" of penetration. Now we can easy say bigger bullet at same velocity and same construction type is more energy downrange, thats physics. So, that said a 6mm bullet that doesn't exit and breaks into 5 pieces would in theory dump more energy than a 300 win mag monolith bullet(bullet tip barely expands to bullet diameter). I say "in theory" because we can only theorize 300 win energy imparted on target because bullet continued to fly and really only poked a 30 cal size hole.

I've drawn up a sweet graph on how we want our bullets to act and how JVB's bullets act.

The red line is obviously ideal right? Low energy energy at entry and after it penetrates it has a HUGE disruption causing damage and that energy and velocity will drop to zero as it approaches the backside of the target. We know this happens when there is no exit hole. I'm not saying that I consider it a bullet failure if the bullet exits.

Blue line might actually be a bit too generous because some people have found their monocore bullet in the offside hide, but the wound channel is basically same size as caliber of the bullet as opposed to multiple little wound channelsView attachment 916598
for one, im glad im not the only person who has this thought. ive argued this with an older guy who is a 300WM guy fully. hes all about the energy but ive asked how much energy hes dumping into the ground after a pass through vs the energy delivered to the target. i told him im leaving every bit of energy in the deer/elk/antelope whatever if the bullet stops inside.

also, the graph is epic haha. 10 million energies would neve be seen by a spomer/jvb bullet..
 
150 gr
I think it would be fair to say "larger caliber bullets of a similar design and impact velocity can possibly disperse bullet fragments wider/possibly sooner in the wound channel".

How much that really matters is a personal thing I guess. I don't think you'd be as likely to see damage like this picture with the 6s and 22s, but also who really needs this much?

125 Ballistic Tip at 3550 or 3600 from a 300 RUM, 80yd shot.

150 gr NBT at 3200fps from a 300wsm are plenty fast for excellent destruction. Heckuva combination!
 
Question wasn
I get what you're saying about exits and blood trails, but do you actually see much difference between a .243 100 gr Interlock and something like a .233 75 gr Gold Dot? Not saying you don't, but I have zero experience with the 100 Interlock, so just curious.
Question wasn't to me, but my answer is yes, on the blood trails. The cheap Hornady are also better than corelokt and blue box Federal 100 gr for blood trails.
 
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