I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[ddd-shooter]

My opinion is that there should be wolves but they should be well managed.

Science, bro, science.
Where’s the data that proves we need wolves in a fractured, man covered, urban sprawl landscape?
Where’s the science that says people’s emotions about fluffy wolves are real, or valid?

 

[Braaap]

The duality of man.. I dont think my point was to criticize the fact that too many people are moving west. its more of a statement on the fact that we as people have broken up large swaths of wilderness causing animals to break out of their most natural patterns. we have basically terraformed our way into a bad
position.

Exactly. Humans have changed the landscape immensely and as such we have to manage all species or there is no balance. If an apex predator is not going to be managed then it shouldn’t be there. Wolves won’t be managed in a state like CO. Even if states that allow them to be managed through hunting it’s out of control and they’re not able to keep them at a sustainable level (sustainable for deer, elk etc).

 

[JBahr]

I have. The one of the most impactful comments here is when @Hnthrdr framed the issue as competition for meat in introducing wolves is introducing competition. looking at it in that lens definitely makes me think differently

​

Do you agree with ballot box initiatives where an uninformed public gets to determine an outcome that doesn't affect them? Seems most of the consternation resides there.

Additional considerations all widely documented that should concern you:
The fact that the policy was railroaded by interest groups all along the way is a big problem.
The fact the personnel employed to manage the resources and the resources the wolves will most affect (CPW) was gag ordered because they advised against it.
The fact that language was removed from the management plan that would allow for management!
The fact that they are using the same tactics to apply to cat predator management...

This wolf population population will be left unchecked until they admit they forked up... which they never will... so we will likely never manage them... Unless we have some competent political shift in government here where folks that believe in the North American Model are elected... also unlikely. So trying to stop it before it happened was our best hope...

Please direct yourself here: https://savethehuntcolorado.com/

 

[Hnthrdr]

The duality of man.. I dont think my point was to criticize the fact that too many people are moving west. its more of a statement on the fact that we as people have broken up large swaths of wilderness causing animals to break out of their most natural patterns. we have basically terraformed our way into a bad
position.

absolutely… elk were plains animals, we pushed them into the mountains, they have adapted to live there but elk have little to no advantage against wolves in mountainous terrain just based on their physiological make up. A mature healthy elk can out run them on the open plains all day put that same elk in the steep nasty where they hang out today and a wolf has a big edge on them

 

[Loo.wii]

absolutely… elk were plains animals, we pushed them into the mountains, they have adapted to live there but elk have little to no advantage against wolves in mountainous terrain just based on their physiological make up. A mature healthy elk can out run them on the open plains all day put that same elk in the steep nasty where they hang out today and a wolf has a big edge on them

This is also a perspective i did not have. thanks dude

 

[Hnthrdr]

This is also a perspective i did not have. thanks dude

No worries, just here to spread info that is all we can do, I am with you, I think all animals have a place, but since we are logical thinking beings we have to smart about it. I certainly don’t hate wolves, or mt. Lions, or bears, quite the opposite. They are amazing, glad they are still around, we just have to be thoughtful about how we share the landscape and how we manage them. Not managing is a recipe for disaster for us and them. Like you said a state that has been drastically changed and whose population is pushing 6 million and continuing to grow will likely not be a great place for unmanaged, wolves, lions, or bears. Or even unmanaged deer or elk for that matter. We just have to keep chasing the balance and call it selfish or not but we should do it with man’s best interests in mind first.

 

[Gen273]

I can't understand why there would not be hostility towards wolves.

 

[Gutshot007]

Did not read all 14 pages . Most of the time once wolves are introduced even if goal numbers are met there will be no hunting/trapping of them . The feds would rather pay government trappers when forced to do so to remove ones that have a taste for beef/lamb vs revenue generating license and a hunting season . Currently thats how it is here in minnesota. I believe deeper behind it is radical eco-environmentalist movement at least in the west that has goals of "Re-Wilding the West" (look it up) . They are hoping to over time have a large interconnected piece of land from the us/canadian border of the northern rockies to the southern rockies . One giant land mass where wolves ,not man manage deer/elk . It will be a huge apex predator sanctuary (grizzly as well). Next up in Colorado re-introduction of the Unicorn .

 

[Loo.wii]

Did not read all 14 pages . Most of the time once wolves are introduced even if goal numbers are met there will be no hunting/trapping of them . The feds would rather pay government trappers when forced to do so to remove ones that have a taste for beef/lamb vs revenue generating license and a hunting season . Currently thats how it is here in minnesota. I believe deeper behind it is radical eco-environmentalist movement at least in the west that has goals of "Re-Wilding the West" (look it up) . They are hoping to over time have a large interconnected piece of land from the us/canadian border of the northern rockies to the southern rockies . One giant land mass where wolves ,not man manage deer/elk . It will be a huge apex predator sanctuary (grizzly as well). Next up in Colorado re-introduction of the Unicorn .

Denver already has unicorns.

 

[prairieboy]

wolf reintroduction in the lower 48 goes way deeper than most wanna go. They knew exactly what they were doing bringing those bigger wolves than the native wolves south. Remember what the woman said off camera view at the yellowstone release?

its all about no need to hunt anymore, cause game populations cannot sustain humans hunting. Then you have no need for those mean scary guns.

 

[Old Dog]

As a neighbor of Colorado who visited there off and on for 50+ years it's pretty sad to watch what has transpired there. The wolf introduction is another example of the continued degradation of a once wonderful state. People with absolutely no skin in the game voted for the release of MORE wolves. They certainly weren't voted in by ranchers, farmers and businesses who depend on hunters for part or all of their income. Nope, they were voted in by the millions of people who live in subdivisions along the front range.

The idea that a rancher or farmer can be "reimbursed" for their loses is nothing more than BULLSHIT. People, including the OP, who have never raised livestock or dealt with cattle in vast areas simply have no comprehension how that works. When you put the cattle out to pasture in the spring you will find out about any losses in the fall, when you gather them up and take the calves off the cows. Then when you notice you're 15 head short there will be no way to prove what caused the loss and the producer eats a 17 to 22k loss. And unless you actually catch them killing your stock you risk prosecution if you kill them.

Here in Nebraska cattle producers are very wary of what will happen with our neighbor's wolf population in the future. Wolves obviously don't respect borders.

 

[Loo.wii]

As a neighbor of Colorado who visited there off and on for 50+ years it's pretty sad to watch what has transpired there. The wolf introduction is another example of the continued degradation of a once wonderful state. People with absolutely no skin in the game voted for the release of MORE wolves. They certainly weren't voted in by ranchers, farmers and businesses who depend on hunters for part or all of their income. Nope, they were voted in by the millions of people who live in subdivisions along the front range.

The idea that a rancher or farmer can be "reimbursed" for their loses is nothing more than BULLSHIT. People, including the OP, who have never raised livestock or dealt with cattle in vast areas simply have no comprehension how that works. When you put the cattle out to pasture in the spring you will find out about any losses in the fall, when you gather them up and take the calves off the cows. Then when you notice you're 15 head short there will be no way to prove what caused the loss and the producer eats a 17 to 22k loss. And unless you actually catch them killing your stock you risk prosecution if you kill them.

Here in Nebraska cattle producers are very wary of what will happen with our neighbor's wolf population in the future. Wolves obviously don't respect borders.

Yeah after hearing some anecdotes I’ve definitely changed my perspective.

 

[JakeSCH]

Wolves were already in Colorado and putting more on the landscape likely only speeds up the process of repopulation by 10 years or so from where they would be without "reintroduction". But the issue is now that ballot box biology sets precedence and makes it a political stronghold vs scientifically managed.

For political reasons, they pushed to make something happen sooner then it was already going to do naturally, to gain control of the situation. This gives an foothold to continue to use ballot box biology to change things they don't like (lion hunting, bear hunting, use of dogs, etc).

In addition, we all have friends (ranchers, outfitters, etc) who are going to be significantly impacted by a quicker change to the environment when a natural slower change would be more adaptable.

Lastly, decreasing supply is going to limit opportunity even further...eventually pricing out more people. Opportunity has already been shrinking since 2020 do to increased demand, hurting supply will make it worse.

 

[dirtytough]

this is what ive been wanting. very developed discussion. im going to dig deeper into the moose question

Not sure there is a moose question? Moose have struggled where wolves are present. Moose have struggled from ticks. In some areas maybe it’s both.

I think its indisputable that the Colorado moose population is going to take a major hit.

 

[Caseknife]

A good read, Valerius Geist was quite the man.

Dr Valerius Geist, "Ignorance is bliss"

 

[Caseknife]

Im very interested to see how this plays out. Unfortunately this is a real life science experiment that we can observe

Not much of a "science" experiment at all.

 

[eldeuce]

YES! and CPW spent what, 30 years or more creating the great moose resource we have, especially up here in Northern Colorado. I fear the wolves, that are only a few 10's of miles away, will wipe out ALL those decades of progress in very short order by killing the moose calves. All those moose points we've all been stockpiling are going to be worth squat in a decade...

 

[Hnthrdr]

YES! and CPW spent what, 30 years or more creating the great moose resource we have, especially up here in Northern Colorado. I fear the wolves, that are only a few 10's of miles away, will wipe out ALL those decades of progress in very short order by killing the moose calves. All those moose points we've all been stockpiling are going to be worth squat in a decade...

Shoot man, I was thinking about that today… plenty of us residents will have been fleeced let alone NR who have been paying for points for 20+ years

 

[Gutshot007]

Wolves have destroyed moose population in minnesota

 

[alecvg]

Wolves are damn tough on moose. Seems like they never have, or will recover in the Frank Church. I could be wrong. That being said, there are some areas of Montana with steady wolf populations, that I have seen the moose populations grow in the last decade. Not sure what factors would make a difference in one area versus the other.