I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[CorbLand]

in a sense yes. animals are a problem because there are people. less people less problem. theres more nuance to this opinion that i dont much care to elaborate on.

Less animals would also equal less problems...

At least we are finally getting to the bottom of some of this. If too many people is the problem, well there is only one way to solve that...and I cant help but see that many people that carry that opinion dont really ever attempt to solve that problem themselves.

 

[Koda_]

My liberal friends tell me im to conservative. my conservative homies tell me im too liberal. I didn't live in CO during the ballot initiative. But the huge flaw to me is that there is no plan for management so i would not have voted for it. I hate the tribalism associated with either label but i guess since im on a hunting forum i have to put on my red hat.

I'm a moderate too and get the same response from friends as you, hats off for asking questions. The whole wolf reintroduction debate can possibly be summarized by the no plan for management.
And that in itself begs the questions that are more important to ask... Why when ungulate numbers in the west are severely declining, why not allow hunting wolves as a means to balance their populations (huge red flag clue right there). When you dig deeper lots of questions appear, like how the north American wolf species is not even remotely close to endangered on the ICUN (current rating "Least Concern"). Why is their historical range suddenly so important when its not even close to the same habitat it was to support them when wolves were here? ....the left argues for the "natural balance" to the prey/predator populations yet leave out the part the lower 48 is no longer the naturally vast uninterrupted wilderness it was when nature alone truly balanced the populations... habitat and migration routes are now fragmented, ungulates cannot migrate the same in response to localized increases in natural predation.
I appreciate the open mind to listen to both sides of a topic, but the action of predator reintroduction is wrought with corruption from the left. Keep digging and you will find the truth then ask yourself why you had to dig to find the truth.

 

[Andrewlonghi]

however far DC is from here

That's says it all right there,we've been trolled

 

[CorbLand]

Left winger liberal politics

I am not stupid. I wanted him to say it for himself...which he did.

 

[87TT]

My opinion is that there should be wolves but they should be well managed.

Managing wolves is like herding cats or hanging Jello on the wall.

 

[Loo.wii]

You ever wonder if there is more "nuance" to peoples opinions regarding wolves that they dont care to elaborate on as well? Or are you the only one that gets to post things and not back it

maybe i replied to soon. i just did have the time to immediately return with a detailed response

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think that 15-19 figure is a little low for wolves.

Then factor in that every lion kills one deer a week to survive, and lion hunting will undoubtedly be eliminated soon.

And then factor in a booming bear population and bear/fawn/calf mortality….

I don’t hate wolves, I hate the system.

For sure! I was trending to the low end on the estimates to try and eliminate hyperbole. But I think anyone can see the game gets out of hand quickly… by the time it’s a problem, it is almost too big to solve. Currently our state is flush with predators who are already not managed well. Destroying the best elk herd in the west will be one of the greatest crimes of our lifetime

 

[CorbLand]

maybe i replied to soon. i just did have the time to immediately return with a detailed response

I saw your edit and you really didnt provide much more detail. Everything you added was already implied in your original post.

Unless, you meant "didnt" which I would say based on how active you have been in this thread, you have plenty of time to add more to your posts.

 

[Loo.wii]

I'm a moderate too and get the same response from friends as you, hats off for asking questions. The whole wolf reintroduction debate can possibly be summarized by the no plan for management.
And that in itself begs the questions that are more important to ask... Why when ungulate numbers in the west are severely declining, why not allow hunting wolves as a means to balance their populations (huge red flag clue right there). When you dig deeper lots of questions appear, like how the north American wolf species is not even remotely close to endangered on the ICUN (current rating "Least Concern"). Why is their historical range suddenly so important when its not even close to the same habitat it was to support them when wolves were here? ....the left argues for the "natural balance" to the prey/predator populations yet leave out the part the lower 48 is no longer the naturally vast uninterrupted wilderness it was when nature alone truly balanced the populations... habitat and migration routes are now fragmented, ungulates cannot migrate the same in response to localized increases in natural predation.
I appreciate the open mind to listen to both sides of a topic, but the action of predator reintroduction is wrought with corruption from the left. Keep digging and you will find the truth then ask yourself why you had to dig to find the truth.

I definitely see that it was a flawed plan.... or a F**** up plan by design

 

[Koda_]

I definitely see that it was a flawed plan.... or a F**** up plan by design

So do you see now why there is some hostility towards reintroduction and how has your opinion on the topic shifted with this new information?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Lots of good points, but just as someone who would rather eat elk than rats or mice, we are less than 100 years from the Great Depression, hell there are places on this earth right now where guys would sit on a cactus to be able to kill something like an elk to feed their family. They are starving! A good friend of mine and lt. Col in the army grew up in Puerto Rico, he often killed rats or iguanas to have meat as a kid. He was poor poor. Now ask why in the hell would anyone with half a brain want to put something out there that competes with us ( and then not manage) for the greatest food sources for humans ie meat, specifically bovine and ungulates. News flash the poisoning and arial gunning of wolves in AK was to ensure there would be plenty of food for humans to get at up there. People are way too comfortable these days to come up with dumbass re-introduction. If the electricity vanished for 3 weeks a lot of these good ideas would vanish, anyone ever not eat for 3 days? Anyone not have food for their kids for 3 days… rules change quick man. Society is Fragile… alright crazy prepper apocalypse rant over…

 

[svivian]

My opinion is that there should be wolves but they should be well managed.

Why? please provide your scientific findings.

Perspective and discussion is a two way street.

 

[Loo.wii]

So do you see now why there is some hostility towards reintroduction and how has your opinion on the topic shifted with this new information?

I have. The one of the most impactful comments here is when @Hnthrdr framed the issue as competition for meat in introducing wolves is introducing competition. looking at it in that lens definitely makes me think differently

​

 

[cuerro viejo]

Dawg i want peer reviewed scientific journals. Not some he said she said

Well there was a real good wolf study in the Frank church, but a certain segment of the non hunting population blocked its release…. cant image why they wouldnt want a Federal study published.

plenty of wolf/elk correlation studies for Idaho lobo unit.

Regardless everything I wrote is a google search away, not sure you are here to actually discuss

 

[Loo.wii]

Why? please provide your scientific findings.

Perspective and discussion is a two way street.

first and foremost i am not an expert. but my opinion has shifted alot just in the past few hours. I dont think eradication is the answer but when looking at this issue as a matter of food or wolves. I would pick food. why should i be in favor of something that is quite literally taking food out of my fridge. this perspective is not what i originally had in mind as a reason for opposition.

 

[Michael Rankin]

Broadly I think many people would agree that one of the main issues is people. the only reason we have these issues is people

Do you not feel that your views are somewhat amusing?


You stated that you moved west from Haiti to Florida, then to Washington DC, and then further west to Colorado.

After being a resident of Colorado for a whole year, you have decided there are to many people that have moved west, and would like to eliminate the people to restore the mountains of Colorado back to how they were at some point in time.


I'm still on the fence weather i believe you are serious, or just having a good laugh.

It has been fun.

Thank You

 

[tkhuntsman]

lets do caribou and sage grouse too. im going to dig into this. In the most broad sense i think the ecology of the west pre western expansion is what i would want to re introduce. were caribou roaming the rockies at that point in history ?

There were still caribou in northern MT until about 5 years ago. Poor management and a large population of apex predators took care of that.

 

[Loo.wii]

Do you not feel that your views are somewhat amusing?


You stated that you moved west from Haiti to Florida, then to Washington DC, and then further west to Colorado.

After being a resident of Colorado for a whole year, you have decided there are to many people that have moved west, and would like to eliminate the people to restore the mountains of Colorado back to how they were at some point in time.


I'm still on the fence weather i believe you are serious, or just having a good laugh.

It has been fun.

Thank You

The duality of man.. I dont think my point was to criticize the fact that too many people are moving west. its more of a statement on the fact that we as people have broken up large swaths of wilderness causing animals to break out of their most natural patterns. we have basically terraformed our way into a bad
position.

 

[Koda_]

I have. The one of the most impactful comments here is when @Hnthrdr framed the issue as competition for meat in introducing wolves is introducing competition. looking at it in that lens definitely makes me think differently

​

Well I cant read back 12 pages to find it but I would agree the left politics doesn't want people self sustaining nor do they want anyone dependent on firearms they want society dependent on govt programs to stay in power.

first and foremost i am not an expert. but my opinion has shifted alot just in the past few hours. I dont think eradication is the answer but when looking at this issue as a matter of food or wolves. I would pick food. why should i be in favor of something that is quite literally taking food out of my fridge. this perspective is not what i originally had in mind as a reason for opposition.

This isnt just about independent sustenance, North American big game largely supports a pro gun culture... I will leave that there for now.
I will say I agree eradication isnt the answer but this goes back to wolves not being remotely close to being even concerned of being endangered.

 

[Koda_]

The duality of man.. I dont think my point was to criticize the fact that too many people are moving west. its more of a statement on the fact that we as people have broken up large swaths of wilderness causing animals to break out of their most natural patterns. we have basically terraformed our way into a bad
position.

Yet the left is intentionally leaving that part out of the discussion.
To support wolves in their historical range (lower 48) their numbers would have to be managed ridiculously low number yet they intentionally legislate virtually zero population control.