I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[Loo.wii]

If you can't understand the hostility of this issue, then perhaps you lack empathy.

Have you tried putting yourself in the shoes of the folks that are upset? Have you genuinely considered the merits of their arguments?

I havent heard many arguments. other than those that lack detail and nuance. I am here and asking because i want to hear those perspectives.

 

[Loo.wii]

Have you researched how wolf re-introduction impacts moose?

tell me more. send some links bruv. i want to see what youre seeing

 

[fngTony]

I for one am beating the drum for cloning trex and reintroducing those . Jokes aside that’s the extreme end of this “to restore the ecosystem” argument. Now we’re only talking a handful of decades in this case but there’s two environmental or ecosystem issues.
1. Our ecosystem (I’m including hunting and conservation) has changed. I believe we’re getting in way over our heads here.
2. This is a much bigger change since wolves were here, humans with our development both agricultural and urbanization (including outdoor recreation). This puts people too close to them. It also carves up all the natural ecosystems. We don’t have the vast untouched forests like other states (not that makes them ok to have wolves forced there either).
Then there is the bs political “ballot box science” that allowed this. That’s a whole other chapter I don’t want to get into.

As far as compensation to ranchers goes anytime the government is involved it will be overly complicated and underfunded. Then there’s still the shortage of meat which causes price increases. That on most scales creates economic hardships. Another problem is the big city people not understanding how small, fragile and undiverse a local ranching economy is but they want to throw a wildcard into it.

 

[Loo.wii]

I am going to go out on a limb and say you just started "hunting" the last five years and have seen every episode of Meat Eater.

I have not seen any episodes of meat eater but yes i have recently started hunting in the last few years.

 

[Loo.wii]

Even for people who think wolves should be on the landscape a lot of people disagree with how it was done. Ballot box biology mandating reintroduction when wolves were already starting to expand to CO from WY. The ballot measure snuck in that wolves would be a "non-game" species, making it very unlikely that there will ever be any hunting or serious management of their population. Beyond the obvious effect of wolves on ungulate populations these are a few reasons people are upset.

Fair point. The position that wolves should be a non game species is unfair to all stakeholders

 

[Loo.wii]

It is pretty simple for me. Wolves, grizzly, and other romanticized predators that activists love are not allowed to be managed like other animals are. When their populations are left unchecked, they do negatively impact large ungulate populations, reducing hunting opportunities, and causing problems with livestock. Yes, ranchers can jump through hoops to get reimbursed but if you think that is a break even for them, you are mistaken. As Dos suggested above, you need to do research from multiple perspectives.

The fact that these species would go uncheck is wrong in my opinion. but i think there is room in the woods for them.

 

[gman82001]

Here and on quite a few other public forums I've observed hostility towards the reintroduction of wolves in CO. Call me ignorant or dumb but I really dont understand the hate. I can understand the " THESE DENVER LIBTARDS WHO KNOW NOTHING GOT TO VOTE ON BLAHBLAH BLAH." perspective, but other than that I don't think its a net negative to the ecosystem, the state, ranchers, or hunters. Now I understand that there may be an argument that broadly suggests that "they're the wrong wolves" but i am not educated enough on the ecology and the actual impact of different wolf sub species on wild life or the ecosystem. If i am not mistaken, I think ranchers are reimbursed for livestock killed by wolves. If this is the case is there really a cost to the re introduction.
In the hunting perspective I also Don't think that reintroduction is negative. Multiple states have healthy wolf populations and still have healthy game populations. I imagine that a good wolf population would solve the issue of private land owners with massive swaths of land essentially having a monopoly on elk and deer in an area and capitalizing on it by charging ridiculous access fees. Broadly I think that predation by wolves on elk and deer will cause these animals to migrate in ways that are consistent with their historic patters of movement, effectively disbursing them in a way that is beneficial to your average public land hunter.

All that being said. While we are at it we should also reintroduce grizzlies to their historic range and buffalos too.

Im sure my opinion will get hated on but i hope this spurs a productive conversation that conveys nuances that I may not be aware of.


Edit.
Getting stabbed with a rusty blade by a gizz in the middle of the woods is better than getting mauled by a crack head in downtown Denver.

lol I can’t wait to see more williow plants and aspen trees in Estes park

 

[Loo.wii]

I appreciate that your opinion differs from the general consensus here but your assumptions about what effects wolves have on big game populations go against what has happened in states with wolf populations.


Look up historical elk populations in the Lolo zone in ID. Elk have been decimated since wolf re-introduction.

In reality, wolves push more animals onto private land as wolves generally want to avoid people and the private ranches are sanctuaries for elk.

The opposite has occurred throughout much of Idaho. In the areas I have hunted, the elk are spending less and less time on their traditional summer range. Because of the wolf population in these areas, elk are spending more time lower in the range and creating additional issues for landowners (not to mention not being available to your average public land hunter).

I appreciate this response

 

[Laramie]

Fair point. The position that wolves should be a non game species is unfair to all stakeholders

One other point that really pisses me off is we the taxpayers have to fund this entire fiasco, including all future reimbursements to ranchers, If I had a pet that was killing my neighbors chickens, I would have to pay for that. The government now has pets in Colorado that are going to kill thousands of livestock and we are expected to pay the tab. BS

 

[Loo.wii]

Why don't you find them yourself? You're the one on the quest for knowledge.

Dawg i want peer reviewed scientific journals. Not some he said she said

 

[Dos Perros]

tell me more. send some links bruv. i want to see what youre seeing

This is a hunting site dude. You hunt them up. I don't waste my time on folks that lack critical thinking skills.

 

[ElGuapo]

Quit being lazy, and asking everyone to spoon feed you the information. Go out and find it yourself. It’s all out there, if you look a little. Educate yourself about the situation and then come back here and let us know what you found.

 

[Dos Perros]

Dawg i want peer reviewed scientific journals. Not some he said she said

It's out there. It'll take you about 0.21 seconds to find them. Have you bothered looking?

At what age did your momma stop putting food in your mouth?

 

[Loo.wii]

Well, I've spoken to ranchers who were not compensated. Something about proof. Are you ever really compensated on a killed cow that can no longer give you calves? Grazing on open range means you don't directly manage your stock till roundup. How you gonna know when your stock has been predated upon?

Then there's the game (deer and elk). It'll take a few years for the wolves to multiply and disperse but before long, you won't see or hear the game animals like before. Elk are no longer as vocal and the general behavior of both species will change. They'll stick to cover more. In short, they'll adopt different survival behavior which maybe increases their mortality due to ambush predators. Anyway, you'll be say'in, where'd all the deer and elk go.

All in all though, the genie is out of the bottle. Complaining or defending doesn't change anything now.

thank you for the perspective i didnt realize that the ranching nuances

 

[Loo.wii]

Quit being lazy, and asking everyone to spoon feed you the information. Go out and find it yourself. It’s all out there, if you look a little. Educate yourself about the situation and then come back here and let us know what you found.

hot take

 

[UncleBone]

Dawg i want peer reviewed scientific journals. Not some he said she said

You do realize that not all peer reviewed "scientific journals" are even all that scientific. Any time there is money or an agenda involved youre bound to wind up with bogus papers that were peer reviewed by other people seeking money or following an agenda. Plenty of examples of that out there as well if you just use your brain.

 

[rayporter]

There will never be a management program or season on wolves in Colorado, due to politics.

this

 

[Loo.wii]

No to forced grizz reintroduction on historic range. Population density is too high on a lot of the historic range...

and why is that a bad thing....... one way or another.. less people in the woods

 

[fngTony]

The fact that these species would go uncheck is wrong in my opinion. but i think there is room in the woods for them.

Problem is managing an apex predator is way different than other animals. On top of that they are more protected than golden retrievers. Just look at the difficulty other states have with managing them. I could be wrong but I don’t think we included a strong management plan. In fact how could we as a state when they have federal protection?

 

[Loo.wii]

I’ll also add the premise of reintroducing wolves based on the logic that they belong here is flawed. All North American Wolves come from Coyotes thousands of years ago, they were also called prairie wolves by name up until 1900. So we have always had wolves, the true native wolves.

Why don’t people care about reintroducing caribou or sage grouse ? Why is it always a predator that has to be helped or protected ?

I’ll tell you why…It’s because you have been brainwashed by liberals and are being used as a tool to complete a task for them. These wolves that by flawed logic are being planted will never be allowed to be managed, ever. Quit pretending this is about some science.

lets do caribou and sage grouse too. im going to dig into this. In the most broad sense i think the ecology of the west pre western expansion is what i would want to re introduce. were caribou roaming the rockies at that point in history ?