HVAC Help

[Eagle]

So, anybody out there have experience with HVAC? I'm in the process of getting estimates from several different contractors in my area and they all seem to have different solutions to our current HVAC issues. We are getting our systems replaced and I'd just like to have an unbiased person to run some things by in regards to brands and other various things.

Our house was built in 04, we bought it in 2010, and knew things weren't right with the HVAC after the home inspection, but it was working ok and did for 4 years until this last week. We have two heat pumps, two story house at 2800 sq. ft. but one unit does the upstairs and half the downstairs, while the other unit only does the downstairs master bath/bedroom, utility room, kitchen and dinning room.

So far, I've got quotes for Amana, Payne and Westinghouse. I've been told to avoid all three by various contractors and friends. I'm trying to get a quote for a Rheem and Trane system as well. I understand that more important than brand, is the person doing the work, but the fact that all three have had different opinions on heat pump sizes and solutions, I'm not sure where to go. PM me your number if you'd be willing to discuss and you're an HVAC contractor. Open to suggestions/advice from others as well.

 

[JustOneMoreShot]

I'm not a HVAC professional so now that it is out of the way here is my measly 2 cents... The unit(s) must be properly sized to do the job. I used to believe that you want a really large unit that has much greater capacity than you need. You know more power more better. That is incorrect and will not work well. The A/C unit must run for a long enough time to dehumidify the air in addition to cool the air properly. If the unit is too large (size is measured in tons) it will cool the air and then cycle back off before it has had enough time to remove adequate humidity from the house air. If the unit is undersized for what you need it will run constantly and not reach a comfortable temperature.
My house was built in 1999 and has two smallish units one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs. Later (1 or 2 years?) the basement was partially finished and a third heat pump was installed to service the basement. All the units are running on borrowed time unfortunately.
Good luck

 

[Eagle]

Thanks, and yeah, I'm aware of the sizing issues. I've had three more contractors come through and a consensus on sizes for the heat pumps is forming, so feeling better about that. Also getting estimates for Rheem, Trane and Carrier in addition to the others mentioned above. Still hoping somebody out there is an HVAC contractor and willing to discuss. With this being the busy season though, it's no real surprise that it's been crickets so far.

 

[gulicemo]

I'm not a HVAC professional so now that it is out of the way here is my measly 2 cents... The unit(s) must be properly sized to do the job. I used to believe that you want a really large unit that has much greater capacity than you need. You know more power more better. That is incorrect and will not work well. The A/C unit must run for a long enough time to dehumidify the air in addition to cool the air properly. If the unit is too large (size is measured in tons) it will cool the air and then cycle back off before it has had enough time to remove adequate humidity from the house air. If the unit is undersized for what you need it will run constantly and not reach a comfortable temperature.
My house was built in 1999 and has two smallish units one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs. Later (1 or 2 years?) the basement was partially finished and a third heat pump was installed to service the basement. All the units are running on borrowed time unfortunately.
Good luck

I'm not sure where Eagle is from, but here in CA and much of the West we have fairly dry climates so dehumidifying the air isn't really too important. But over-sizing of units leads to short cycling of the compressor which can greatly reduce the compressor's (Not condenser (compressor is one of the main components of the condenser)) life expectancy.

Trane and Carrier are top of the line.

You get what you pay for.

If the contractor you choose tells you he can't do it for a few days (or weeks), it's usually for good reason. Conversely, if the contractor you choose tells you he can do 2 whole system replacements tomorrow, it's for good reason. It's July 3rd and supposed to be 110* Monday. We are weeks out on full replacements, less on emergency replacements.

Just like backpacks, optics and weapons, buy once, cry once. If you have the cash but don't want to plop it all down at once, ask about financing You could pay it off rather quickly with a very good interest rate.

Send me a PM or email with any questions you may have. It's hard to give you definitive answers without having looked at it, but generally go with your gut feeling and educate yourself on what they are trying to sell you.

BUY THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM YOU CAN. 2 speed compressor is good, variable speed is best. 2 stage heat furnace's are great, variable speed blowers are awesome. There is equipment on the market today that you will never know is running because it's so quiet and efficient (provided it's installed correctly).

 

[brewer427]

I've been doing HVAC and refrigeration for 8 years now and learned from the man who started the business I work for in 1980. One thing I have learned from personal experience and his past experience is a lot of companies don't know what there doing. Trane and Carrier would be my 2 top choices, we carry trane. In my experience those two make it way longer then any other manufacture out there and they have great warranty options. Rheem and Goodman are also good choices.

For your size of home, depending on how well your house is insulated, if you have a lot of windows that catch a lot of sun, and how much you go in and out of your house during the day. A 5 ton system is the smallest I would get.

The biggest thing to help keep your system working in great shape is keep the filters changed, wash out your condensers at least once a year, more if you have a lot of cotton, dirt etc. etc., flying through the air and try not to run your AC below 69-70 through the day, Especially on really hot days.

Just my 2cents, feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[robby denning]

this is cool (no pun intended) Might need to start an HVAC forum.

 

[sfischer]

As what has already been mentioned - basics. Trane, Carrier top of the line. Surprised Bryant has not been mentioned. You get what you pay for and if the installation is done correctly it should last longer than your previous. I've seen off brands perform and out last top brands if installed correctly. One thing is you usually get a better warranty (service) or rebate with the high end brands. I guess I'm not sure from your post what is actually wrong with your units now? Brand? Not to get off topic but have the companies that are giving you estimates actually looked at your ENTIRE system? Making sure everything is sized accordingly. Not that they are just replacing your unit cause a simple part keeps failing? What have the service techs told you? A little more info would be helpful, unless your set on a full replacement.

 

[Eagle]

Thanks guys. I live in Huntsville, AL. We are having a full replacement done, our downstairs systems condenser coil has a major leak and the upstairs unit is undersized and struggles to cool the upstairs.

With that, yes, the contractors are going throughout our home and doing the load calculations. We have been told we need either a 2.5 or 3 ton unit upstairs, and a 2 ton downstairs. The upstairs unit again does two of the downstairs rooms and covers about 1800 sq. ft. The downstairs unit is about 1000 sq ft but covers the kitchen, dining room, utility and master suite.

I know that goodman makes Amana; Bryant, carrier and Payne are the same parent company; rheem and ruud are the same, and various others are available as well. I've done my homework, but always think you can learn a lot more by going to those who make their living doing this, and a third party without a stake in this will be unbiased and honest, that is why I asked this on here, and I appreciate the help. Thanks again.

 

[Eagle]

I'm not sure where Eagle is from, but here in CA and much of the West we have fairly dry climates so dehumidifying the air isn't really too important. But over-sizing of units leads to short cycling of the compressor which can greatly reduce the compressor's (Not condenser (compressor is one of the main components of the condenser)) life expectancy.

Trane and Carrier are top of the line.

You get what you pay for.

If the contractor you choose tells you he can't do it for a few days (or weeks), it's usually for good reason. Conversely, if the contractor you choose tells you he can do 2 whole system replacements tomorrow, it's for good reason. It's July 3rd and supposed to be 110* Monday. We are weeks out on full replacements, less on emergency replacements.

Just like backpacks, optics and weapons, buy once, cry once. If you have the cash but don't want to plop it all down at once, ask about financing You could pay it off rather quickly with a very good interest rate.

Send me a PM or email with any questions you may have. It's hard to give you definitive answers without having looked at it, but generally go with your gut feeling and educate yourself on what they are trying to sell you.

BUY THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM YOU CAN. 2 speed compressor is good, variable speed is best. 2 stage heat furnace's are great, variable speed blowers are awesome. There is equipment on the market today that you will never know is running because it's so quiet and efficient (provided it's installed correctly).

Thanks for the info. I've run a couple cost benefit analysis and can't see a gain with going from a 13 to a 15 seer unit, but that may strictly be for our area and due to the price differences I've been quoted for 13 up to 16 seer systems. We have a gas fireplace, so that helps a lot during the winter, but our gas connection is on the opposite side of our house from our units, so it's not a viable option to go with a furnace, and not really necessary for the Huntsville area with the gas fireplace in place.

Our area is saturated with hvac contractors, but as you mentioned some are much busier than others. I may PM you my number to talk further at some point. Thanks again.

 

[brewer427]

Is there a reason your going to go with two systems instead of one. Duct work maybe?

 

[H'n'F]

I am a mechanical PE and design HVAC and Refrigeration systems every day. In a previous life I was a service tech for HVAC/R also. I have about 20 questions for you before you spend money on a new system. If you want to PM me, I can talk you through a few things to keep an eye out for and maybe help you make a more informed decision.
For starters, don't let anyone tell you how large of a system you need based on your square footage alone. A solid contractor will troubleshoot your current system and give you a detailed description of the issues so you can determine if an entirely new system is necessary. I have seen some very interesting installations and depending on what is going on, a new heat pump, furnace, DX AC etc. might not fix the problem(s).
If it is decided that a new system is required, a good contractor will complete a load calculation with Trane Trace or some similar type of modeling software. Over-sizing AC is a sin and should never happen. The climate in your location is also important as is the type of heat pump. Here in the Mid-west, air to air hep pumps are a no-no as a stand alone system. They don't heat well in low ambient conditions and require supplemental heat sources. Water or ground source are a better option but are expensive and can present installation challenges.
Shoot me a line and we can chat.

 

[Eagle]

Is there a reason your going to go with two systems instead of one. Duct work maybe?

Yes, we have two air handlers in two separate locations, and the duct work is configured for two systems. I've never seen a two story home in our area or in the southeast that runs off of one system, must be something common to the west as its not something done down here.

 

[Eagle]

I am a mechanical PE and design HVAC and Refrigeration systems every day. In a previous life I was a service tech for HVAC/R also. I have about 20 questions for you before you spend money on a new system. If you want to PM me, I can talk you through a few things to keep an eye out for and maybe help you make a more informed decision.
For starters, don't let anyone tell you how large of a system you need based on your square footage alone. A solid contractor will troubleshoot your current system and give you a detailed description of the issues so you can determine if an entirely new system is necessary. I have seen some very interesting installations and depending on what is going on, a new heat pump, furnace, DX AC etc. might not fix the problem(s).
If it is decided that a new system is required, a good contractor will complete a load calculation with Trane Trace or some similar type of modeling software. Over-sizing AC is a sin and should never happen. The climate in your location is also important as is the type of heat pump. Here in the Mid-west, air to air hep pumps are a no-no as a stand alone system. They don't heat well in low ambient conditions and require supplemental heat sources. Water or ground source are a better option but are expensive and can present installation challenges.
Shoot me a line and we can chat.

Thanks, I'm an aerospace engineer, and my degree was mechanical/aerospace, so I've got some background understanding, but it's been a few years. That said though, I completely understand the importance of math calculations side of this issue.

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to why we are replacing both units. The "downstairs" unit is 2 ton, but the condenser coil has a major leak (we refilled it this spring and it's already out) so rather than spending 1500-2000 to replace the coil and fix the issues, I'd rather upgrade to a newer more effiecient system that doesn't use r-22 like our current systems do. The "upstairs" system which actually does a larger area than the downstairs is only 1.5 ton, and on a 90 degree day, it can't keep our upstairs cooled below 82 degrees (we keep it on 78). This wasn't a problem until our little girl was born last September, and with her room being upstairs, we need an efficient system that can keep it cool. That is why we are going with a full replacement of both systems.

 

[LindaOlson]

Sorry for the old thread. Thanks for the advice. Indeed it is very difficult to find a good specialist, we also met with this problem

 

[tinomson]

I understand. To tell the truth, we bought an old house and we also have the same problem with the heating and ventilation system. So, finally, we need to replace it because there are no variations to repair it. I never thought that it is so expensive. Indeed, it is really annoying when several experts tell you different opinions about the same situation. I found some useful information about HVAC here https://www.hvacschools411.com/hvac-certification-license-online/ maybe this can help you.