Hunting ski, skin set up?

[Seeknelk]

Ok, lots of good info guys.
Marker kingpin binding on hyper vector ski ?
Then for a boot... obviously depending on fit. I have a high volume foot. Salomon S-lab a good place to start?
Boot and binding compatibility and use cases is a bit confusing.
I'm happy getting good gear that I can grow with.
Yeah, I get that I'm not an advanced skiier and that things I'm envisioning in my head usually go up in smoke when I get out in the real world! I'll not be just grabbing my stuff and blindly heading in for camping.
But I want the proper gear to start with and start learning.

 

[Seeknelk]

I rented Rossi BC cross country(scaled, metal edges, fairly wide ) set up once years ago...they DID NOT work for climbing mountain trail grades that weren't even steep.
The split board I tried was just a test to see what skins can climb and it was amazing! Almost scary how steep they would just slide up. But yeah I quickly got sick of the board.

 

[Cervid]

Skiing downhill with skins on is a terrible idea. Skins are for going up, not down. You can go uphill with fish scales or by side stepping, but for any serious grade you’ll want skins.

Telemark skiing refers to the binding. You can put a telemark binding on all sorts of skis. Telemark skiing is really fun and it sounds like they might be good for your purpose, but only if a) you are already very good at skiing (and I mean very), or b) if the terrain you’ll be using them in is pretty mellow and basically just slightly more difficult than something you’d take regular xc skis on. If a or b doesn’t hold, then as other posters have mentioned, get an ultra light alpine touring set up. And if the terrain is pretty mellow, a backcountry style xc ski, potentially with a 3pin boot binding, would be lighter and easier to use with gently rolling terrain.

 

[Poser]

Skiing downhill with skins on is a terrible idea. Skins are for going up, not down. You can go uphill with fish scales or by side stepping, but for any serious grade you’ll want skins.
.

As a Splitboarder/snowboarder who never learned how to actually ski, I have to split ski in certain situations: mild, undulating terrain and the occasional downhill that’s not worth transitioning for and FS roads. I do often split ski with skins on. Sometimes with just one skin on when it’s a deep skin track: I’ll glide on one ski and use the skin ski to control my speed. In other situations, I’ll just “ski” with my skins on to help control my speed since my skiing skill level is so pathetically terrible. I’ve snowboarded down some gnarly terrain only to want to piss my pants at the end when I was forced to split ski a 40 foot roller 100 yards from the trailhead.

 

[Sled]

Love the term “survival skiing”.

It's when the balance of fun and difficulty flip. It's usually because you've made a poor choice of aspects to ski on or simply a poor mode of travel for the condition.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Buy a sled (snowmobile) and never look back.

 

[Seeknelk]

Buy a sled (snowmobile) and never look back.

Ha! Like I posted above. I tried that. Snow machine isn't allowed or able to go in most good marten habitat here.
It only got me to the fringes.
Sure , a turbo 800 173 will get into some of that...but most of the good stuff is wilderness. And if I'm on a $30,000 sled, I'm gunna just be into riding my mega dollar machine

 

[JohnB]

Get some time in skiing in bounds before venturing out on your own as some folks have mentioned above skiing with a 40 lb pack is a completely different world than skiing in bounds. For perspective I can ski anything in bounds as long as there aren't mandatory airs and backcountry skiing is my primary winter activity. I've had some of the toughest turns while out cougar hunting with my rifle, a ton of layers, spotting scope, tripod and FoxPro in my pack. Snow in the BC can be great conditions or you can wind up trying to make your way through some good awful combination of wind affect, heavy snow over light or just straight slush.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Dynafit style(tech) bindings have inferior release characteristics to alpine bindings with an increased likelihood of tib/fib fractures. If you do wind up with a set of tech bindings then your skill should be high enough that you aren't frequently taking hard falls and coming out of your skis.

That said I've been keeping an eye out for a set of fish scales Voile skis to use with a set of Scarpa Alien RS boots and some light tech bindings for exactly this type of usage.

 

[medvedyt]

A splitboard will be impractical for this purpose, unless you want to splitboard for fun and just split-ski the entire time you are running trap lines. Otherwise, too many transitions and I'm going to assume that the terrain will, more often than not, be too mellow for a a splitboard in downhill mode.

Black Diamond makes these light duty skis that you could use with mountain boots -they are closer to being snowshoes than skis, though: https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revi...kis/black-diamond-glidelite-147-snow-trekkers

and, you won't get the downhill performance as you're not wearing ski boots and these have permanent skins on them which was one of your disqualifies. These would, however, most likely be your cheapest entry point to actually getting on skis and getting around.

looks like a lot what the russians are using in siberia but theirs are made wood and are using rubber boots with ski attachs at the front like the finnish army is using too ...

 

[Seeknelk]

Get some time in skiing in bounds before venturing out on your own as some folks have mentioned above skiing with a 40 lb pack is a completely different world than skiing in bounds. For perspective I can ski anything in bounds as long as there aren't mandatory airs and backcountry skiing is my primary winter activity. I've had some of the toughest turns while out cougar hunting with my rifle, a ton of layers, spotting scope, tripod and FoxPro in my pack. Snow in the BC can be great conditions or you can wind up trying to make your way through some good awful combination of wind affect, heavy snow over light or just straight slush.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Dynafit style(tech) bindings have inferior release characteristics to alpine bindings with an increased likelihood of tib/fib fractures. If you do wind up with a set of tech bindings then your skill should be high enough that you aren't frequently taking hard falls and coming out of your skis.

That said I've been keeping an eye out for a set of fish scales Voile skis to use with a set of Scarpa Alien RS boots and some light tech bindings for exactly this type of usage.

Thanks! Yeah I'll definitely not be just heading deep solo or anything like that. I can ski and fairly well but will certainly be rusty. Do you have any experience with the marker kingpin binding?

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

I have seen a few good recs, but I would highly recommend a Nordic touring set up. NNN bc or 3 pin bindings and any good Nordic touring ski. I like the Rossi line, but madsus and alpina make some decent skis. NNN BC bindings alpina Alaskans for a boot are a great start. Skins are nice, but you will get places much much quicker without. Keep the skins in your pack for the times you need em. If you are skilled you can ski down most anything with ease.
I see a lot of folks mention tele, but those setups are more so geared toward downhill.
I spent the last decade as backcountry Nordic touring and tele guide. On my off days I ran a trapline on skis. Stick with soft boots and you will be less limited when not on the skis, more comfortable and warmer at all times. Practice and strong ski skills are important. 20 miles a day off trail in rolling mountainous terrain is easily achievable and you can get by with just the ski boots not needing to pack another pair.

 

[rogerdoger]

If you are not planning on doing a lot of skiing and do not need the efficiency the tech bindings provide I would go with a pair of fritschi freeride bindings. They are a lot easier to get into and out of. If you are not used to tech bindings you will be cussing trying to get into them. Marker makes similar but are a lot heavier.

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

You're talking about a weird in-between area, so the "right "answer is going to depend on your exact use and ability, Options include:

• An actual backcountry ski setup - tech bindings, downhill skis, skins. Pros: ski downhill great. Cons: expensive, hard boots (relatively) suck for walking around in, longer skis are a drag in the brush. Generally heavier although you could go full euro and get tiny skis, superlight bindings, and sliiper-like boots, but that'll cost the most money.
• Cross country skis. Fish scales, metal edges, long skinny skis (confusingly these are also called backcountry), NNN or three pin binding(outdated). Lighter, cheaper, faster on the flats, the boots are pretty comfortable to walk in. You will still want skins for climbing and buschwacking. Take some skill to get around, especially downhill and stomping around. Long skis a drag in brush.
• Weird hybrids - skis shaped like downhill skis and built like xc skis (light, fishscales, e.g. Voile V8). Usually pin or tele bindings. Plastic boots with lots of flex. You'll still want skins. Very efficient in the right terrain. This is a real niche area of skiing so it'll take some sophistication to put the pieces together and know if they're right for your use.
• Approach skis. Short (3-4 feet), fat, bindings take regular hiking boots. Ice climbers have been using these for years. Use skins, sometimes built in. Work sort of like snowshoes you can downhill in. Very good for stomping around, Pretty cheap.

Which of those is best depends on what kind of terrain and veg you'll be in, how well you can ski, and if you want to use them for other things. If you want them solely for hunting and in rolling and brushy terrain I'd think about getting some approach skis and using boots you already have. Of course snowshoes are also an option, but walking downhill in the winter is for suckers.

 

[JohnB]

Thanks! Yeah I'll definitely not be just heading deep solo or anything like that. I can ski and fairly well but will certainly be rusty. Do you have any experience with the marker kingpin binding?

I have seen people tour with Kingpins but have not used them. They are heavier than I like for a touring binding. I have 3 sets of Dynafit Speed Super lite 2.0 that I prefer for their simplicity, light weight and their ability to go from tour to downhill mode without needing to take the ski off. I use them on different setups with no brakes, brakes on or with leashes on my 125mm underfoot pow skis.

 

[MTForester]

NNN-BC boots and bindings suck for serious backcountry travel. It’s not an inherently worse design than 3-pins, it’s just that 99% of people buying them never leave a groomed trail and don’t demand much of their equipment. The available boots are flimsy. I’ve had boot and binding failures, had the boots freeze into the bindings, and the lack of a double boot option is a problem for multi day trips in the winter.

In rolling terrain I spend a lot of time on Garmont excursions (or Scarpa t4s), 3 pins, and some sort of fish scale voile ski. Plastic boots with removable thermomoldable liners are critical for real winter travel imo.

For more serious terrain I lock my heels down and switch to dynafit boots and ATK bindings.

 

[Seeknelk]

You're talking about a weird in-between area, so the "right "answer is going to depend on your exact use and ability, Options include:

• An actual backcountry ski setup - tech bindings, downhill skis, skins. Pros: ski downhill great. Cons: expensive, hard boots (relatively) suck for walking around in, longer skis are a drag in the brush. Generally heavier although you could go full euro and get tiny skis, superlight bindings, and sliiper-like boots, but that'll cost the most money.
• Cross country skis. Fish scales, metal edges, long skinny skis (confusingly these are also called backcountry), NNN or three pin binding(outdated). Lighter, cheaper, faster on the flats, the boots are pretty comfortable to walk in. You will still want skins for climbing and buschwacking. Take some skill to get around, especially downhill and stomping around. Long skis a drag in brush.
• Weird hybrids - skis shaped like downhill skis and built like xc skis (light, fishscales, e.g. Voile V8). Usually pin or tele bindings. Plastic boots with lots of flex. You'll still want skins. Very efficient in the right terrain. This is a real niche area of skiing so it'll take some sophistication to put the pieces together and know if they're right for your use.
• Approach skis. Short (3-4 feet), fat, bindings take regular hiking boots. Ice climbers have been using these for years. Use skins, sometimes built in. Work sort of like snowshoes you can downhill in. Very good for stomping around, Pretty cheap.

Which of those is best depends on what kind of terrain and veg you'll be in, how well you can ski, and if you want to use them for other things. If you want them solely for hunting and in rolling and brushy terrain I'd think about getting some approach skis and using boots you already have. Of course snowshoes are also an option, but walking downhill in the winter is for suckers.

Thanks a ton! This is a big help. It's a steep learning curve with all the slang and little branches of types of skiing.
My short test with the largest rossignol Nordic BC ski was a total flop, wouldn't climb much at all and not enough float for the snow that day, but I also did not have skins(weren't part of rental).
I grew up on various CC skis and old DH set ups in Michigans UP but never got too into it before ending up on a board.
I'm thinking of getting a used set up and getting some experience and just get out before dialing it in better.
There's a decent used market around me actually.

 

[Seeknelk]

I have seen people tour with Kingpins but have not used them. They are heavier than I like for a touring binding. I have 3 sets of Dynafit Speed Super lite 2.0 that I prefer for their simplicity, light weight and their ability to go from tour to downhill mode without needing to take the ski off. I use them on different setups with no brakes, brakes on or with leashes on my 125mm underfoot pow skis.

Ok, thanks! Yeah , after I posted I researched more and gathered the kingpin is probably not the way for this set up and dyna fit is a better fit .

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Thanks! Yeah I'll definitely not be just heading deep solo or anything like that. I can ski and fairly well but will certainly be rusty. Do you have any experience with the marker kingpin binding?

I skied the kingpins for a couple years. They’re not what you want for this application.

I toured in them to try cat hunting once. Light black diamond skis, kingpins, K2 mindbender 120 boots. Haven’t done it again. Definitely want a more flexible boot.

Ok, lots of good info guys.
Marker kingpin binding on hyper vector ski ?
Then for a boot... obviously depending on fit. I have a high volume foot. Salomon S-lab a good place to start?
Boot and binding compatibility and use cases is a bit confusing.
I'm happy getting good gear that I can grow with.
Yeah, I get that I'm not an advanced skiier and that things I'm envisioning in my head usually go up in smoke when I get out in the real world! I'll not be just grabbing my stuff and blindly heading in for camping.
But I want the proper gear to start with and start learning.

Don’t guess on buying boots. Go to a decent shop and get fit.

 

[mt100gr.]

Thanks a ton! This is a big help. It's a steep learning curve with all the slang and little branches of types of skiing.
My short test with the largest rossignol Nordic BC ski was a total flop, wouldn't climb much at all and not enough float for the snow that day, but I also did not have skins(weren't part of rental).
I grew up on various CC skis and old DH set ups in Michigans UP but never got too into it before ending up on a board.
I'm thinking of getting a used set up and getting some experience and just get out before dialing it in better.
There's a decent used market around me actually.

I've been following this thread and the info is great! But like you say - the details, jargon, and insider language is overwhelming!

For a couple years now, I've been looking for something more efficient and more versatile in varying conditions, than snowshoes for hunting wolves, checking cameras, and generally tooting around in the woods on the snow.This thread actually reminded me....and I just pulled the trigger on some of the OAC Skinbased "skishoes". If i can basically hike around with a little bit of glide and not post-hole, I'll be happy. I'm not looking to carve big lines or climb straight up. I'll be using old road systems, hiking thru clear-cuts, crossing frozen swamps, and running trails/routes that i use during hunting season in my boots, etc.

I'll report back here for sure. We're both in NW MT it appears, so we can compare notes.

 

[Seeknelk]

Yeah I think I'll find a good bootfitter. From hockey to hunting to skate skiing, getting boot fit dialed is everything so I'll do that.
MT100- yeah, I'll report back here once I get some experience and equipment and use it. Definitely curious how those ski shoes work out.