Hunting mature thick timber Muleys in Eastern WA, Northern ID, and NW Montana

[Geewhiz]

It feels like i am the only one that's a little apprehensive about it. Here in the Northwest we already have bucks dying of old age, we don't need more

Not the only one.

 

[mustelid_master]

Pretty impressive for your first 4 years of hunting, especially for Washington. I am in NW Montana and killing big bucks is not an easy endeavor, even with our dates going to the end of November. I feel like it would be impossible for me if the dates were Sept and Oct like you guys have.

Right now everyone is pushing for Oct only hunt dates across our entire state. It feels like i am the only one that's a little apprehensive about it. Here in the Northwest we already have bucks dying of old age, we don't need more

Are you hearing any official steam behind this from FWP or just the typical banter online?

 

[Firestone]

Are you hearing any official steam behind this from FWP or just the typical banter online?

That is the plan that the Mule Deer advisory committee came up with, it's up to fwp to structure the seasons and dates.
I have talked to biologist on the west end of the state and they are aware of the declining mule deer heards in our region. Their biggest concern was not season dates and over harvesting bucks, it was the lack of habitat. With the biggest piece of that puzzle being the lack of logging on forest service.
Fwp will end up just implementing the same season structure for both the east and west sides of the state. God for bid we manage two different deer heards a little different from each other.

 

[AHayes111]

Pretty impressive for your first 4 years of hunting, especially for Washington. I am in NW Montana and killing big bucks is not an easy endeavor, even with our dates going to the end of November. I feel like it would be impossible for me if the dates were Sept and Oct like you guys have.

Right now everyone is pushing for Oct only hunt dates across our entire state. It feels like i am the only one that's a little apprehensive about it. Here in the Northwest we already have bucks dying of old age, we don't need more

It is a tough situation. The Mule Deer in wide open regions 6 and 7 are no longer able to handle the current season and the advancements in technology is a big part of this. Region one is fairing better because all of those advancements are not much help because of the timber. The problem is if 6 & 7 need to go to an Oct season or LE it is gong to be hard to keep other regions the same with out the risk of blowing up hunting pressure over night. I suspect pressure is going to increase in regions one even if we change nothing in the east. The public land in the east is just about played out. It is only a matter of time until the Bozeman and Washington hunters start to look for a different place to hunt.

 

[AHayes111]

That is the plan that the Mule Deer advisory committee came up with, it's up to fwp to structure the seasons and dates.
I have talked to biologist on the west end of the state and they are aware of the declining mule deer heards in our region. Their biggest concern was not season dates and over harvesting bucks, it was the lack of habitat. With the biggest piece of that puzzle being the lack of logging on forest service.
Fwp will end up just implementing the same season structure for both the east and west sides of the state. God for bid we manage two different deer heards a little different from each other.

It is not part of the plan that the CAC came up with. I was on that CAC and we only developed a problem statement and guiding principles. Although many of us on the CAC would have loved to dig into management strategy, That is left to FWP.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I think more could be accomplished in western montana with a reduction of mtn. Lions and wolves than an October only season. Our fwp dept only manages
money not mule deer.

 

[Firestone]

It is a tough situation. The Mule Deer in wide open regions 6 and 7 are no longer able to handle the current season and the advancements in technology is a big part of this. Region one is fairing better because all of those advancements are not much help because of the timber. The problem is if 6 & 7 need to go to an Oct season or LE it is gong to be hard to keep other regions the same with out the risk of blowing up hunting pressure over night. I suspect pressure is going to increase in regions one even if we change nothing in the east. The public land in the east is just about played out. It is only a matter of time until the Bozeman and Washington hunters start to look for a different place to hunt.

I agree regions 6 and 7 could use some help, and the easiest place to make a change would be season dates. I would like to see changes to the season structure in the west to, but subtle changes rather then full a full blown explosion.

we only developed a problem statement and guiding principles. Although many of us on the CAC would have loved to dig into management

That is what I meant by "plan", my bad for using the wrong terminology, thanks for clarifying

 

[robby denning]

Pretty impressive for your first 4 years of hunting, especially for Washington. I am in NW Montana and killing big bucks is not an easy endeavor, even with our dates going to the end of November. I feel like it would be impossible for me if the dates were Sept and Oct like you guys have.

Right now everyone is pushing for Oct only hunt dates across our entire state. It feels like i am the only one that's a little apprehensive about it. Here in the Northwest we already have bucks dying of old age, we don't need more

I’d be apprehensive too, once you guys give that season up it won’t come back. Some places the bucks are super vulnerable during the rut, but not as much in Northwest Montana, as you say. It’s about the only way you can hunt them in some places. We have a podcast coming out with one of the Montana biologist later this week and we talk about that, Brian Wakeling

 

[mustelid_master]

I don't know how I feel about it. NW MT mulies are hard to hunt even in the rut, part of me wonders if it would be more doable going at em' with a rifle in the first two weeks of October; I wouldn't know, never have had a reason to be in the hills that early.

I am sure the pressure would increase across the west side regions if the season structure across the state changed. I imagine the success rate would stay about the same though on the west side, close to zip.....

I have been wrong many times before.

 

[Firestone]

I’d be apprehensive too, once you guys give that season up it won’t come back. Some places the bucks are super vulnerable during the rut, but not as much in Northwest Montana, as you say.

My thoughts exactly.

If I were king I would still end the Mule Deer season a week earlier. It would save a lot of smaller bucks that die Thanksgiving week from opportunistic hunters, but even that change is based purely off my own selfishness, and would probably have little effect on herd health.
ALTHOUGH it would force the "opportunistic" Thanksgiving warrior to shoot a whitetail, and whitetail encroachment on Mule deer habitat is a real problem.

 

[Firestone]

I don't know how I feel about it. NW MT mulies are hard to hunt even in the rut, part of me wonders if it would be more doable going at em' with a rifle in the first two weeks of October;

It's not just the rut that makes it better, the other factor is SNOW. If we don't have snow you can literally be hunting a ghost.

 

[Pony Soldier]

In a lot of the western jungles of northwestern mt, I found muleys and whitetails mixed. You typically were hunting elk but had to be prepared for what you would encounter. Sometimes you would find elk on one ridge and muleys on the next. The whitetails were pretty random. The best one I killed was near the top of the ridge. A number of years later I killed my best muley about 1.5 miles west and about the same elevation.

The last time I hunted the west northwest all I found was wolf tracks and that was 6 drainages over 8 days in country I grew up in.

 

[robby denning]

My thoughts exactly.

If I were king I would still end the Mule Deer season a week earlier. It would save a lot of smaller bucks that die Thanksgiving week from opportunistic hunters, but even that change is based purely off my own selfishness, and would probably have little effect on herd health.
ALTHOUGH it would force the "opportunistic" Thanksgiving warrior to shoot a whitetail, and whitetail encroachment on Mule deer habitat is a real problem.

that podcast episode went live today

Charting a Future for Montana Mule Deer - Rokslide

Robby hosts Brian Wakeling, Game Management Bureau Chief for Montana FWP. They discuss their developing mule deer plan. Biologists and the public are working to increase mule deer populations, address CWD and improve hunter satisfaction and landowner relations.

www.rokslide.com

we talk specifically about E MT vs NW MT buck vulnerability. He got me all twisted up with the data on avg buck age harvested in each region. Still trying to understand how E. is putting more older bucks in the harvest than NW.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

that podcast episode went live today

Charting a Future for Montana Mule Deer - Rokslide

Robby hosts Brian Wakeling, Game Management Bureau Chief for Montana FWP. They discuss their developing mule deer plan. Biologists and the public are working to increase mule deer populations, address CWD and improve hunter satisfaction and landowner relations.

www.rokslide.com

we talk specifically about E MT vs NW MT buck vulnerability. He got me all twisted up with the data on avg buck age harvested in each region. Still trying to understand how E. is putting more older bucks in the harvest than NW.

Perfect timing I got yard work today I can give this a full listen

 

[Pony Soldier]

When we had a NW population of mulies I could follow the cat tracks from kill to kill. Add wolves and you likely have to walk for a week to cut a track.

I'm guessing eastern montana is a little light on kitty tracks and/or wolf tracks.

 

[AHayes111]

that podcast episode went live today

Charting a Future for Montana Mule Deer - Rokslide

Robby hosts Brian Wakeling, Game Management Bureau Chief for Montana FWP. They discuss their developing mule deer plan. Biologists and the public are working to increase mule deer populations, address CWD and improve hunter satisfaction and landowner relations.

www.rokslide.com

we talk specifically about E MT vs NW MT buck vulnerability. He got me all twisted up with the data on avg buck age harvested in each region. Still trying to understand how E. is putting more older bucks in the harvest than NW.

Not hard to understand.
First: Private land. Most of the east is private land and much of it is managed for older age bucks regardless of what FWP is doing. Enough bucks are taken on this private land that it is likely boosting the average. Also most of the older public land bucks I see taken are shot on small bits of public in an ocean of private when they happen to stray off of the private. Again this will help boost the average, but it is hardly a management success story.
Second; We still have some bucks that survive to old age even on public, just very very few of them are the ones that have the potential to grow large or even an average set of antlers. With Montana's current five week rut season " Trophy" hunters can afford to be very selective. The two year old four point that scores 140 will get shot before the older three point with smaller antlers every time. The bucks with the best potential get shot young, but the poor potential bucks will live much longer and when they do get shot they can add to the number of older age class bucks.

 

[robby denning]

Not hard to understand.
First: Private land. Most of the east is private land and much of it is managed for older age bucks regardless of what FWP is doing. Enough bucks are taken on this private land that it is likely boosting the average. Also most of the older public land bucks I see taken are shot on small bits of public in an ocean of private when they happen to stray off of the private. Again this will help boost the average, but it is hardly a management success story.
Second; We still have some bucks that survive to old age even on public, just very very few of them are the ones that have the potential to grow large or even an average set of antlers. With Montana's current five week rut season " Trophy" hunters can afford to be very selective. The two year old four point that scores 140 will get shot before the older three point with smaller antlers every time. The bucks with the best potential get shot young, but the poor potential bucks will live much longer and when they do get shot they can add to the number of older age class bucks.

Thank you, read that carefully and that clarifies a lot.

@S.Clancy

 

[IDVortex]

When we had a NW population of mulies I could follow the cat tracks from kill to kill. Add wolves and you likely have to walk for a week to cut a track.

I'm guessing eastern montana is a little light on kitty tracks and/or wolf tracks.

Due to more ranches/farms, I presume that's why.

Now I'm curious on harvest rates between the 2 sides of the state. Got me some googling to do.

 

[rogerthat]

Thank you, read that carefully and that clarifies a lot.

@S.Clancy

I think you’re right to be befuddled as well as skeptical of the age data. Art’s explanation is correct comparatively speaking between east and west but it wouldn’t explain a harvested age class that would be the envy of the west. I have the most recent region 7 age data. I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but it’s important to note the lab aged data is from voluntarily submitted Cwd testing. I personally suspect there is bias in the data towards older age class due to the voluntary nature of the sampling. This aligns with the trends I have seen with my 30 plus years of hunting mule deer in region 7 and the 15 years and 100 plus lab age specimens I have sent in for family and friends over the years from region 7.

 

[Jason277]

15, 32, and 80yds.


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You just keep your scope on 3x ?